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u/Willing_Show_7663 May 26 '25
The fact that she was angry about how he treated the heavy girl but still decided to date him later is a HUGE red flag imo. I would’ve been right there defending the girl, and afterwards I would’ve avoided him like the plague he is. Stand your ground. She is not on your level.
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u/Big_Brilliant_5904 May 27 '25
I feel bad the girl trying to better herself was shunned and mocked for it.
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u/h3llfae May 27 '25
Seriously that's the saddest part of this whole post.
She knew. And honestly there's nothing that matters more when it comes to real long-term compatibility than values.
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u/SomewhatOptimal1 May 27 '25
She probably mustered all that courage to do something and she was Instead mocked for it.
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u/GlitteringQuarter542 May 27 '25
I really can’t imagine adults acting this way. I’ve been to many different gyms and activities and what not, I live that lifestyle and have never seen adults acting like described here. Seems insane, where I live such guy would get kicked out of any club.
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u/GoblinKing79 May 27 '25
I really can’t imagine adults acting this way.
Have you not looked around at people lately? They're kinda awful. Especially douchy "hot" people. They seem to think that being good looking means they're allowed to treat others like shit. And the cultists (if you know, you know) are by far the worst, especially to women.
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u/S0rcie May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
I've seen it in a work environment from multiple different people.
sadly those people don't just despawn and continue to be a plague to the general populace, anyone so miserable acting is miserable acting in every other aspect of thier life. You can't compartmentalize a bad personality.
On the topic of the club tolerating it, it could be that the organizers or whoever feel that hes not doing it often/harsh enough to warrant a ban. If he only does it to people he finds "unattractive" then maybe the people in the club don't fall into that category typically(ie bad behavior not happening often enough to warrant it).
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u/Independent-Raise467 May 27 '25
Running groups are basically dramatic sex clubs.
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u/-Chirion May 27 '25
If you really want to figure out who a person really is, the best way is not to look at him or her and what her or she does, but rather look at who he or she chooses to value. Who the individual spends time with and befriends, and most importantly who that person chooses as their partner. Of all the potential partners one could have, this is the person they choose to value more than anyone else in the world, and how the partner acts reflects on the person's own individual values. When people ignore the poor values of their partners, they are accepting that these behaviors are ok. Truly great and strong people do not accept partners who treat others poorly.
People lie to others and they lie to themselves, but the one thing they can never lie about is the actions of their partners. Nothing says more about you than the person you choose to spend your life with.
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u/Otherwise-Ad1646 May 27 '25
This. I've dated some women that were pretty shitty to me (because some people work up to that slowly and you don't notice it right away), but not women that are just outwardly shitty to other people for no reason. For example if we're getting food and you're rude to the waiter, I'm done with you.
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u/Corfiz74 May 27 '25
You know how there is the hot/crazy matrix for chicks? There should be a corresponding hot/asshole matrix for guys. She fell for the superficial charm and hotness and wanted that dick, even knowing it was attached to an asshole.
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May 27 '25
wanted that dick, even knowing it was attached to an asshole.
Giggling because I read this as "the taint does not exist".
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u/facforlife May 27 '25
Guys are the first to admit they are blinded by the hot crazy matrix. Women will never admit in front of straight men that they are blinded by the hot asshole matrix.
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u/dadboob May 27 '25
She wanted to outwardly support the new member but inwardly did not disagree with John. Callous.
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May 27 '25
Because she didn’t actually feel bad she just knew if she stayed quiet it wouldn’t look good in front of her new friends. Classic pick me move.
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u/QnoisX May 26 '25
Women like bad boys, because "they can fix him". Spoiler: they can't.
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u/New-Number-7810 May 26 '25
This is only true of foolish women.
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u/Coidzor May 27 '25
If the past 5 years have taught us anything, it's that a whole mess of people are fools.
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u/Valiant_Strawberry May 27 '25
Honestly I probably would have cut her off even as a friend if she only started dating him after that happened. Maybe that’s just because I’m a bigger girl myself, but I’d be over it. No dick is worth that idc how hot he is.
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u/thinksying May 26 '25
NTA - she knowingly dated a cheater. Specifically, a cheater who she witnessed being a jerk so knows hasn’t made any inroads on changing himself.
Who you date says something about how you value relationships and she showed she doesn’t share your values. So NTA for not just using her for sex and then dumping her.
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u/No-Captain-1310 May 27 '25
She is "confused" type. If OP had asked/pressed her about this, she wouldn't have answered well LoL
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u/Durzel May 27 '25
It would’ve meant being honest about her shallowness, which is not likely to be a conversation that would go well. She should probably be thankful that OP is still prepared to consider her a friend, to be honest.
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u/cachalker May 26 '25
NTA. When she first arrived, you were open to exploring a romantic relationship. It wasn’t like you were fully engaged with the feels for her. You were attracted, at that time, and open to the possibilities. She said no and you accepted that. Became her friend. Even when she started dating the schmuck, you stayed her friend. That does not mean, however, that her choice of the schmuck didn’t kill the blossoming romantic attraction you initially felt. Honestly, I get why her tolerance of his prickishness gave you the icks.
Perhaps she thought you’d been secretly pining for her and now that she’d gotten the attractive prick out of her system, she’d reel you in. But the funny thing about timing is that the other person just might move on while you’re not paying attention. For some reason, I’m getting the vibe that Jane is not accustomed to being told “not interested”, so it must be the guy’s insecurities. You were the bird in hand that she let go for the two in the bush. She just didn’t expect you to fly away.
Your friends are right about one thing. You can’t control who you’re attracted to and you’re no longer attracted to Jane. It’s rather hypocritical that she’s allowed to be attracted to who she’s attracted to; but, apparently, you’re not allowed to no longer be attracted to her. Fairness doesn’t enter into it. You’ve simply got no interest in John’s leftovers.
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u/HoldFastO2 May 27 '25
This is an excellent summary, yeah. OP isn’t „punishing“ Jane for her choices, nor is he insecure about John. He’s just no longer attracted to her after evaluating the choices she makes. That’s as fair as you can be - judge people by what they do, not how great they look.
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u/Low_Attention16 May 27 '25
OP also doesn't want to be the silver medal, the "settle down" option after she had her fun. What will happen when another gold medal guy joins their runner group?
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u/BigRedNutcase May 27 '25
OP is punishing her for her choices but that's exactly what should happen anyway. Every choice has consequences. That's how life works. Not every choice has major consequences but they do have consequences of some sort. You can't have it all so pick and choose wisely.
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u/Helpful_Blood_5509 May 27 '25
You also never want to be the fallback option or the secure option. They'll cheat the second you hit the rocks in your relationship... because they will develop another fallback. And clearly cheating is not a deal breaker
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u/Definitely_Human01 May 27 '25
Yup, it's clear he wasn't the first choice considering she said she's ready to start dating now, after she's already dated John.
Nothing wrong with only now developing a thing for OP, but the throwback to her original rejection of him (not being ready to date) feels icky when she must've known that OP knew she was dating someone.
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u/Durzel May 27 '25
Exactly. That’s mostly being glossed over too. She hooked up with him knowing he was engaged, like the side pieces. She’s got pretty low morals and I suspect only stuck up for the overweight lady because she wanted to feign some kind of independence from John - not because she was struck by the same sympathy that OP felt.
When people show you who they are, believe them, etc.
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u/Jodenaje May 27 '25
Agreed.
I’d also add that while you can’t always control who you’re attracted to, you can choose not to date someone based on their behavior.
So the argument that “Jane can’t control who she’s attracted to” doesn’t really hold up as a counterpoint.
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u/Just__A__Commenter May 27 '25
NTA. You can’t control who you are attracted to, but idk about you, I don’t try to date every single person I’m attracted to. Who you choose to spend time with reflects on you, and after seeing what a PoS John is she still wanted to date him.
Even if it was just sour grapes about her choosing John over you after you had made your interest known (not saying it is), still NTA. You tried to turn her down gently, she pressed.
That she then went on the offensive trying to make it about you being “insecure” just goes to show that you dodged a bullet.
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u/Independent-Raise467 May 27 '25
Women who call men insecure are almost always red flags themselves.
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u/NOTRadagon May 27 '25
Yup, her calling OP insecure about that POS guy is another red flag. She can't take responsibility for her actions.
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u/ImmortallyWounded1 May 26 '25
NTA Everybody has the right to date or not date anyone they want for any reason. If you feel that she has poor morals for dating someone she knew was an asshole beforehand, that's your choice, don't date her. If she doesn't like that, she can continue to not date you. But if you don't want to date her she shouldn't try to push it. no means no from either gender, for any reason.
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u/Laxit00 May 27 '25
You backed off when she said no so she needs to respect you when you decline dating her
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u/ByzFan May 26 '25
Yep, but it gets worse. Her approach and pushiness imply that OP was always her backup plan. In all their friendzone time, she honestly never understood how OP felt about the group douchebag?
She definitely knew.
Then, after letting that douchebag run through her for months. She expects friendzone to be happily waiting in the wings? For his sloppy seconds? Which you absolutely know douchebag will bring up.
Because he's a douchebag.
Her choices imply a lack of respect for OP. Healthy relationships need trust, respect, and boundaries. She's already failed one.
Best to leave garbage where it belongs. In the trashcan.
NTA
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u/Perfect_Forever1700 May 27 '25
Also it’s funny how when she was ready to date she dated the other guy rather than OP. So her reasoning of why she said no, but then not actually making it clear to OP she was ready when she actually was, speaks volumes
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u/merewenc May 27 '25
Yeah, I caught that, too. OP is actually pretty restrained if he didn't say that to her face when she tried to push to date him now.
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u/Durzel May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
And it’s not like they weren’t seeing eachother regularly either, they were both in a running club.
At any point when she decided she was “ready to date” she could’ve had the conversation she’s now trying to have with the OP, but she didn’t, she only wanted him when other “better” options were no longer available.
Fuck this woman (not literally). Who you associate with informs your own morals. It’s not as if she didn’t know he was a massive cock - she knew, and didn’t care. She just wanted his D. That’s fine if you’re honest about it, but can also have consequences.
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u/Full_Formal6011 May 26 '25
NTA at all. Being selective about who you surround yourself with is actually a good thing. In this case, it sounds like it’s more about values and morals and there’s nothing wrong with distancing yourself from people who associate with those who are unkind or disrespectful. It’s completely valid if that kind of behavior shifts your perception of someone. It just means you’re staying true to your principles.
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u/ObviousProblem5348 May 27 '25
You asked her out, she said no.
He asked her out, she said yes.
What more do you need?
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u/Waffleraider May 27 '25
This.
All of the morality and character aside, She turned down the OP when she wasnt "ready to date" but as soon as she was "ready", she didnt go back to the OP, but rather she went for that John guy.
Now she wants the OP as the rebound guy
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u/Mindless_Dog_5956 May 26 '25
NTA you are who you surround yourself with. She chose to date an asshole so that's a clear enough signal.
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u/Dana07620 May 27 '25
NTA
You've got the ick about her and no longer are sexually attracted to her. I get that.
It's an old saying, but there's a lot of validity to it: Beauty is as beauty does.
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u/BreakConsistent May 27 '25
Your friends are right. You can’t control who you’re attracted to. And you’re not attracted to her anymore.
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u/New-Number-7810 May 26 '25
NTA. You don’t owe anyone a date if you aren’t interested in them, and you never have to justify why you’re not interested.
Also, on the last point, who you choose to spend time with IS a reflection of your character. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas.
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u/calmly86 May 27 '25
NTA. The good news is, she showed you what's *really* important to her in a partner, and it's not character, morals, or decency.
Of course she called you "insecure." She probably calls you a "narcissist" to her friends. Who cares.
She values "rizz" and "vibes." That's not someone you want to invest your time and heart into.
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
Honestly, I think OP needs to find a new club, or start one himself. Staying in the same club as John and Jane seems like self-flagellating behavior. Make a new club and don't let them join.
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u/MagicCarpet5846 May 27 '25
Not really, it’s definitely a helpful skill to be able to be around people you don’t like while not engaging in their own shit values.
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u/throwawaytradesman2 NSFW 🔞 May 27 '25
Hi OP,
I'm with you. A girl dating an absolute douche bag gives me the ick faster than I can say the word.
Values are just way off. If bullying that girl doesn't disqualify him as a boyfriend, then she has zero moral compass.
You dodged a bullet, plenty of fish in the sea, keep on moving with this lady.
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u/Any-Beginning-2849 May 27 '25
NTA
Only people of mad moral character date people of bad moral character, and the fact that she willfully hookup with a serial cheater, shameless homewrecker and fat-shamer says everything you need to know about her. She’s just into you, the safe option, now that she got her dose of the bad boy.
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u/Gloomy-Essay8821 May 27 '25
A lot of abusive AH only show their true face after they “trapped” their partner. But in this case she knew he was an AH.
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u/Independent-Raise467 May 27 '25
Not really. A lot of women just overlook AHs initially if they are attractive enough. If the woman would have her dad or brothers or male friends meet the AH they would be able to tell her who he is immediately.
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May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
NtA. She showed that she’s ok with bullies. When you learned that you realized you’re not a good match.
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u/North-Reference7081 May 27 '25
given how she immediately resorted to calling OP insecure, she's probably a bully herself tbh
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u/Sweaty_Painting_8356 May 27 '25
NTA.
She lied about not wanting to date anyone because she then dated someone else.
Your reason for not wanting to date her because you like the friendship is just as valid as her not wanting to date because she wants to make friends. She has messed up double standards. Respect and consent needs to go both ways.
She had sex with a dude to reward him for bullying someone for being overweight.
She insults you and calls you insecure for having morals.
Dude. Why are you even friends with this dungeon creature?
Edit: I just wanted to add that she judges people by what's on the outside and you judge them by what's on the inside. You would never work as a couple.
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u/Sufficient-Berry-827 May 27 '25
NTA at all. And I completely agree with you. I think that showed you who she is and I would never want to date anyone that would align themselves with someone like him. She's saying you're insecure because she's used to people like him and has no idea how valuable integrity is. It absolutely supports your point.
I hope you literally never give her a chance. Don't be like her and fall for her shit later on.
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
>I think that showed you who she is and I would never want to date anyone that would align themselves with someone like him.
"John's an asshole, he proudly cheated on his fiance, and he loves Trump, but he looks hot so I'll date him anyway." - Jane
Yeah, no thanks. OP would have been dumped as soon as Jane found someone "better" (like another John).
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u/moonp0ut May 27 '25
NTA this is iconic and I love to see the posters here not letting ppl walk all over them or take advantage of them.
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u/readyforwine May 27 '25
Honestly who cares if you tell her she chose to sleep with John first so you no longer find her attractive. He is a dbag of the highest order. She told you no but chased after him. Knowing how bad of a person he is.
The friendship would be at risk let alone wanting to date her now. Especially when you know you are a backup after she fucked John. Ugh.
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
I think OP's friendship with Jane is done at this point. But it's no big loss really; we see now what kind of person Jane is.
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u/a07463 May 26 '25
If you knew me already and went with someone else... forget about any dating. That's my stance. Always been. No ifs, no whys. She knew me and chose someone what she seen as better (presumably).
So in your case she wasn't ready to date you bur was ready to date that other guy? Lmao 🤣 something doesn't math here for me lol.
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u/Boumerges May 27 '25
Also, she broke up with that other guy because "he wouldn't make enough time for her". Means basically, she is still attracted to that other guy.
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
Yeah, apparently him being a blatant cheater on his (ex-)fiance and a terrible asshole to an overweight girl (not to mention being a Trump supporter) wasn't enough to make her stay out of his bed. Just "not making enough time for her". This really shows what her priorities in a relationship partner are.
If OP had dated her anyway, she probably would have cheated on him eventually, or monkey-branched from him to John or another guy when the opportunity arose.
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u/a07463 May 27 '25
Oh very good point I missed that part lol. So it's Luke "hey I like this guy but you're my second best option. Wanna go out on a date?" 🤣
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u/DwightHayward May 27 '25
Same here. if you rejected me but ended up dating someone else my brain flips the switch. Even if he’s a great guy that just didn’t work out.
What makes this more egregious is that she went on to date the biggest jackass around lmao. Man I’d feel offended if you even tried to hit on me afterwards
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u/a07463 May 27 '25
This. I don't do it intentionally. You put it perfectly. Brains just flips. And I can never see you in a romantic way. At best, you're just a friend to me.
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u/New-Number-7810 May 26 '25
Never settle for being the “safe option” or the “fallback”.
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u/a07463 May 27 '25
If I like you amd you don't like me back in romantic way. I'll friendzone you. At that point there's zero chances of any romance ever. I don't flirt with my friends. Just way mu brain works lol. I don't do it intentionally.
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u/Due_Classic_4090 May 27 '25
You’re not the AH. You made the right choice and I hope you stay firm in that and don’t date her. It’s messed up that she was there and like you said, she was fine with John saying rude things to people for no reason, totally unprovoked. John is a narcissist! She sounds like John jr.
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u/Academic-Dare1354 May 27 '25
NTA- You don’t owe her a date and she’s the one who pressed when you gave her an answer already.
You saw her red flags early enough thankfully, and yeah most people would judge a person for dating someone like that. I would
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u/sparks772 May 27 '25
NTA, so you asked her out, and she said no she wasn’t ready. Ok fine, I get that. But she went on and dated John, so apparently she became ready and let John know, not you. Why would anyone want to be the fall back? She chose John first and you’re supposed to be waiting in the wings for her to be ready for you?
Updateme
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u/Theabstractsound May 27 '25
Should’ve just said, “when I saw you dating Jon, I got the Ick!” Every woman knows you can’t come back from the Ick.
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u/LandMustDepreciate May 27 '25
NTA. I think rejecting you and then dating someone else from that club (regardless of personality) would've been bad enough, but she dated someone who openly was an asshole. I wonder if their reason for leaving eachother is actually true. Maybe John was cheating or he only wanted a hookup. I'd consider this a burnt bridge considering how much she's pressing for a reason.
She chose to date someone like that. You can tell ALOT about a woman from who she chooses to date, but the same thing can't be said for men, because of situations like this.
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u/ExismykindaParte May 27 '25
NTA. Honestly, the making fun of the overweight woman was the least egregious thing you mentioned this guy doing. Cheating on your partner and knowingly fooling around with married people is WAY worse. That should be your sticking point IMO. The fact that she knew he was a cheater and had no respect for the "sanctity" of a committed relationship, but dated him anyway tells you that she is of low moral character and of poor judgement.
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u/All_knob_no_shaft May 27 '25
From the very start, she saved you from a world of pain and a waste of time.
Plus, she went with exciting first. She's for the streets.
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u/LincolnHawkHauling May 27 '25
She turned you down because she wasn’t in a place to date anyone and then starts dating John shortly after.
John bangs her for a while till he got bored and starts to pull away so she breaks up with him because he’s “not making time for her” despite that being precisely the point.
So she got dicked over by the jerk and suddenly realizes you were the right guy after all lol.
Nah man, fuck that. You handled the situation like a champ.
NTA
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
>So she got dicked over by the jerk and suddenly realizes you were the right guy after all lol.
OP was the right guy, but Jane was never the right girl. The right girl would never have dated John in the first place after seeing what kind of guy he is.
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u/Kooky-Perception-871 May 27 '25
Hey I don't blame you I don't want to date somebody that dates assholes! I expect the person I date to have made good choices.
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u/Beautiful_mistakes May 27 '25
NTA You lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas. I agree with you and your choice whole heartedly.
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u/Rich_Bodybuilder9478 May 27 '25
NTAH. Everyone knows people don't like to play second best. Even worse if you're second best to someone distasteful. So if Jane had any bit of awareness, she would have understood the very possibility that dating the douchebag that OP doesn't particularly like would have damaged or destroyed any future potential romance with OP.
Not sure why she's so shocked. Is she stupid or self-centered? Either way, I would be over it and move on to someone else.
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u/Leo91019 May 27 '25
NTA she’s basically one of the girls that had her fun and now wants to settle.
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u/akillerofjoy May 27 '25
NTA. You didn’t just dodge a bullet. You stopped it mid-flight, the Matrix-style, and flung it back at her. Thou shalt henceforth be known as Neo, Jr.
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u/Accomplished_Bass46 May 27 '25
No. It's a great judge of character who a woman will sleep with or won't sleep with
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u/NIN-pig May 27 '25
NTA.
Completely allowed to be turned off by someone’s dating history.
technically she’s allowed to do what she wants but you’re also allowed to no longer be attracted to her for it
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u/Junior-Hour May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
NTA
She told OP she wasn’t ready to date when OP asked but went out with Dickhead John and then when he wasn’t making time for her then she decided she was ready to date OP.
Yeah I definitely get not wanting to date someone who dated someone like John but how about the fact that she chose OP as runner up
Update me.
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u/whyareyoulikethisr3 May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
NTA. Your friends are right that you can't control who you're attracted to. However, you absolutely can control what you do about it.
Sure, plenty of women will date an asshole at some point in their life, but you saw it this time. It's totally fair to be turned off.
ETA: And this was a BIG asshole. Not even just the "too cool for rules" type of poser girls will date in high school. Who the hell knowingly dates an adult bully? Gross.
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
Not only was he a BIG asshole, but it was blatant. She can't rightfully claim that she only found out later.
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u/Grouchy_Dad_117 May 27 '25
NTA. Interest fades sometimes as time reveals new information. You were interested before, now you are not. No need to defend it.
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u/informativegu May 27 '25
I know John. Not that particular John, but I know they type quite well. John needs to get a quick introduction to Judo and Mr. pavement.
Anyway, on to your question. The girl in your story sounds like the type that will abandon all her boundaries and rules for an attractive man, despite him being a complete knob. In my humble opinion, that should make her undatable. You are not overreacting. Good for you for saying no.
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u/RainbowUniform May 27 '25
So she didn't want to date you, got to know you, and then wanted to?
And you were interested in dating her, got to know her, and no longer want to?
Good on you for being truthful when she pressed, I could see dismissing her past if you were young, like <22... but after that? yeah, you should totally judge people based on their chosen partners and social circles, if an adult shows poor judgement why would I want to discover how deep it goes?
Its hilarious how she tried to phrase her asking you out as "disappointed you didn't pursue" like holy fuck... maybe if you're flirty as friends? but I don't really get that impression. That alone would turn me off from someone, like you rejected me, dated someone else, and now you're disappointed I didn't try to pursue you?
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u/Thrasy3 May 27 '25
Yeah, all other shit aside, rejecting someone but then expecting them to pursue you anyway is just a particular level of stupid I think most people would want to avoid.
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u/membericon May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
NTA
Please ignore the people calling you an AH. They and Jane are what’s wrong with dating.
You asked her out. She said no. You respected her wishes and became friends with her—never pursued her again. She then dates the asshole of the group—a man who is a known cheater, homewrecker, and a jerk to those trying to better themselves. After she couldn’t change him, she decided to tell you she was disappointed that you didn’t ask her out again. She didn’t ask you out. She put it all on you. You explained your thought process and she then called you insecure. Get the fuck out of here with that noise.
To sum it all up: “I didn’t want to date you but I just got dicked down for months by a guy who didn’t want me, so I want to date you now. lol”
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May 27 '25
Why did she deserve an explanation. She is extremely pushy and rude. No means no. Yet she pushed and pushed and got the answer she didn't like.
Her pushiness is a red flag.
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u/mem2100 May 27 '25
Totally agree that you can't control who you are attracted to. But you absolutely can control who you choose to sleep with. She chose to sleep with a guy who is a complete asshat. And when he treated her poorly - she realized she should actually sleep with someone - decent. You for example. I just don't blame you for passing.
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u/Nearly_Pointless May 27 '25
NTA. It is a legit position to not want to date someone based their past relationships, in fact it’s as good a reason that exists.
It’s hurts her feelings which is why she lashed out. Frankly, she’s doing a good job of fur enhancing the opinion that she isn’t sincere.
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u/big_bob_c May 27 '25
NTA. She knew you were interested, she chose to date an asshole instead. You would always know you were second choice to an asshole, and that she might go back to him if he convinced her he would be more attentive.
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u/RSlashWhateverMan May 27 '25
Don't read this. NTA she's a shallow girl who turns off her morality when her pussy starts to get wet. She deserves to be alone or stuck dealing with douchebags who won't give her enough time/attention.
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u/SJEPA May 27 '25
NTA. Don't date girls with bad decision making skills. She saw all that shit and STILL got with him? 🤣
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u/Complex-Challenge374 May 27 '25
You set your own boundaries and you alone decide who to say yes or no to. For me, values are a key factor in deciding who to date (in the past, I’m married now). I would never judge the woman for her actions and values, just say it’s not for me. A long time ago, I went on two dates this semi-famous super beautiful actress/model (not in the US), at the end of date two we ended up making out, but nothing more. After the date, she asked me to take her home, but we decided to meet up to go to a market the next morning. When I left her at what I thought was her place, she greeted a guy, I thought nothing of it. The next morning, I went to pick her up, and she was with that same guy. I asked her if she slept over at his house, she said yes, and that they slept together. Now, I had no right to decide with whom or when she slept with anyone, but I told her that I was no longer interested, and that we could stay friends. She actually begged me to stay, and told me that we were not together, and that she had already set up the date with the other guy before she met me. I told her I was not angry or disappointed with her, and that she was free to do whatever she wanted, but that I had lost interest. I never saw her again. I still believe I did the right thing, because my values are more important than looks.
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u/Proud_Cartoonist8950 May 27 '25
You're great, I admire you. A girl who is attracted to cheating assholes doesn't deserve to date guys like you.
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u/EmpireofAzad May 27 '25
She wasn’t ready to date you, but was ready to date him. Who he is aside, you’re still her second choice. Being second choice to an asshole is even worse.
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u/Opening-Donkey1186 May 27 '25
She said no to dating you, then dated the asshole, things fell apart and now wants to date you.... She quite literally proved you're a 2nd choice and nothing more to her. Don't feel.bad for telling her off, she's a prick.
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u/Financial_Weekend_73 May 27 '25
I agree 💯you are who you align yourself with!! She could have come back around after she was ready to date again!!
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u/spyda101 May 27 '25
So you ask her out, she isn’t ready, a while later Johnny boy asks her, she is, but they broke up, and now she is back to you ? All while you were also there.
I get there isnt like a queue, you weren’t first in line or something, but still sounds like a second choice, never mind the she has a poor moral character.
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u/avatarjulius May 26 '25
NTA
You don't have to date anyone you don't want to.
I would've just told her that you don't play second fiddle and walked away. If she wanted to date you, she would've before dating John.
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u/Vyckerz May 27 '25
I would've just told her that you don't play second fiddle and walked away. If she wanted to date you, she would've before dating John.
I disagree with this. He didn't care so much she dated someone instead of him, he specifically didn't like that she dated John because he is such an AH so that has him questioning her values.
She wants to think it's because she rejected him before and OP is jealous of John, because that gets her off the hook for dating a bad person and being considered of low character as well.
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u/Dana07620 May 27 '25
Nope. Because that would fit into the insecure about John narrative.
It's not about him not playing second fiddle. It's about him discovering that her core values are not compatible with his.
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u/avatarjulius May 27 '25
She already turned him down. It's not insecure to choose not to be a back up plan.
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u/DwightHayward May 27 '25
I think people just watch too many shows/movies where the great guy is waiting at the end after the protagonist goes through a shitty relationship and think that’s the norm(or should be)
No, plenty of people do not wait around nor want to and they’re not bad people for that. You probably get 1 chance with most people, so don’t act surprised when they’re not interested later
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u/Future-Nebula74656 May 26 '25
Nta.
It seems like she flip-flops to whatever she wants the time and then flops back to default.
I wouldn't want to date her either
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u/Vyckerz May 27 '25
NTA - To some women accountability is like Kryptonite. You can absolutely judge someone's character by who they date, but of course she's going to pull the insecure label as her accountability shield. Too many women are willing to date the charming/handsome asshole and this is just another example of that.
People saying you can't help who you are attracted to are right as far as that goes, but it's insane to say that they then can't control themselves and be responsible to not date a bad person.
I don't blame you at all.
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u/2npac May 27 '25
NTA...she showed you her true colors. Also, her trying to date around in the run club shows she's just like John
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u/LostInNothingBox May 27 '25
Tell her you are not her toy for her to play and throw away whenever she feels like. She had her chance and she blew it. And you are not interested in being her back up.
If you are not ready to say these to her face then you'll go through more of these experiences.
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u/Sterac6 May 27 '25
NTA but I would like to hear her reasoning fotr dating John. Not that it would make a difference but I do want to hear what mental gymnastics she will go through trying to explain it
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u/Gab288 May 27 '25
NTA. You’re right, her dating a horrible person shows that she is at the very least willing to tolerate their crap values, which is a nope for me. Finding that a turn off shows you have some moral fibre.
Regardless of this, you’re allowed to decline romantic advances for any reason.
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u/scotswaehey May 27 '25
Look it’s as simple as you asked she said no she wasn’t ready to date and then went and dated the biggest AH and you are no ones back up or second choice!
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u/Melodic_Contract8155 May 27 '25
She was disappointed he hadn't asked her out again?
NTA
She might be stupid, too.
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u/EpicBootyThunder May 27 '25
YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CONTROL WHO YOU'RE ATTRACTED TO, BUT IT'S STILL A CHOICE WHETHER YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO PURSUE THEM!!!
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u/IcyPop235 May 27 '25
NTA Money money money makes the difference... Got a little story too from this subject.
My friend (grow up in same small town) is CEO of big company and he is very good looking and really fit. He has nice big apartment in center of city and Porsche, BMW etc. We always go together to trips and casinos. It's so fun to watch how he always get the girls while acting and treat them so bad that sometimes I feel embarrassed. Still It's funny how girls fight for him even he's behaving so badly. He just hunt, f##k and dump. Every girl think they are so special that they could get relationship with him. Best part is that you can keep them interested many moths doing minimum, because he is so "busy" CEO. About a half of the girls has husband of bf. He has told me many times he don't need gf. He always laughs how easily girls cheat. So if this OP's girl made once this kind decision she will make it again.
Have to say It would be nice to belong in this top 0,5% of men. But in the other hand you never know is your looks or your money.😅 He wasn't always like that but when he was working few years in USA changed him a lot.
We regural lookin nice guys who only make 150 k or less in year don't have match. And I know it's hard to find good one because there so much leftovers in market. I wouldn't take any girls who has been interested from my friend.
Pro tip. Best places to get easyly these kind of girls if someone is interested. 1: champagne festivals 2: wine festival 3. Book fairs evening programs etc 4. Business seminars / events 5. Casino
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u/Highwayman3264 May 27 '25
NTA. You have a right to refuse her for any reason including moral ones. That being said why haven't you guys kicked John out of the group?
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u/baconfarad May 27 '25
You were her fall back option.
Man A - didn't work out.
Never mind, I'll go for the other one
Don't waste your time with her
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u/Analisandopessoas May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
NTA. In my opinion, your point of view is correct. Here where I live we have a popular saying that fits your situation "tell me who you hang out with and I'll tell you who you are".
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u/TisIChenoir May 27 '25
NTA. You have a right now to want to play second fiddle, and you have to right not to want to play second fiddle to the obvious asshole. I'd be angry at you if you had accepted her proposition.
What's funny though is that everytime someone points out that some women seem to really like this kind of asshole, you'll have people saying that these guys are like master manipulators who hide their true nature until they have reeled their prey in.
Yet very often, the guys are the most ovious jerk possible (and often portrays the qualities that are decried as "turn-offs" (like being rude or condescending to people they perceive as lesser, being vain and shallow, etc...), and still have no trouble finding partners.
But I digress...
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
They have no trouble finding partners because there's a bunch of shallow, poor-morals women out there like Jane.
This is not to say that *most* women are like Jane. Only that there's enough of them out there so that men like John are successful with their approach. (And this isn't just single women either; remember, John was cheating with some married women too!)
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u/blonde_Cupid May 27 '25
NTA. I think you dodged a bullet with her turning you down in the beginning. I completely agree with you. You could have just moved on from being rejected, you don't need a reason.
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u/Aggravating-Pie-5565 May 27 '25
I wouldn't even be friends with someone like that. Because it tells me that she's one of 2 things. An idiot or a two faced shallow person.
If he convinced her he wasn't that bad for his behaviour she's a gullible idiot. The type to claim that they were mind controlled into cheating on their spouse.
The other option is she knew he was an asshole and showed fake offense to make herself seem like a nice person but she didn't actually care about what he did or said as long as she got to date the hot guy. NTA.
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u/RudeRedDogOne May 27 '25
NTA OP
She just cannot handle being looked at as no longer a worthwhile choice due to her dating choices.
Too bad for her.
Do not ever allow her in, as she obviously has no strength of character, nor intrinsic moral compass.
She said no to you, then dated the shithead, then decided that maybe you might do after all.
Such female bullshit thinking.
Keep her ass at a 10 foot pole length removed. She will never be a long term partner solution.
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u/spoonman_82 May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
NTA. and John can eat a bag of dicks. someone probably should have told Jane about what went down with the ex-fiance. but then, who cares. if she saw him belittle a person trying to better themselves, and willingly went out with him anyway then thats a huge red flag.
Edit: I just re-read. So she wasn't ready to date when you asked, but was willing to date douche boy and get ran through for a few months? And now all of a sudden she's ready? lmao get fucked lady. have some self respect. she's now ready fo settle for you. tell her to pound sand
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u/Poinsettia917 May 27 '25
NTA and you made the right call. She dated John first, knowing how rotten he is. Then she suddenly decides she wants to give you a try next? Nope. Tell her to date her first choice.
Tell your friends to back off.
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u/lifeSaxer May 27 '25
NTA, too many women date and waste time with low moral or quality dudes. Then want to crawl back to you cuz you were the safe option. I’m glad you have pride and a back bone. At best she can get some pipe from you but that’s it. Keep your head up king and keep her in the friend zone
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u/NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT May 27 '25
More than anything, iff be upset that she told me she want ready for dating, but then she was ready for dating when other guy asked.
That alone would rub me the wrong way. I dont think you should have given her an explanation though.
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May 27 '25
NTA. eerily similar situation with me in my volleyball group. For me it was my pride, she picked the other dude over me despite seeing he’s an asshole, sorry you have bad selection abilities, not my problem. In my scenario she didn’t ask me out openly after, but we hung out as friends and I had the opportunity to make a move and I considered it but couldn’t. Her asking you out and pushing for an explanation in this scenario is just kind of sad.
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u/Thaldrath May 27 '25
Shouldn't have explained yourself. Stop at : "I was interested at first and you told me no. I moved on and I'm no longer interested."
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u/Electrical_Sun_7116 May 27 '25
Huge turnoff. NTA. There have been many girls I’ve liked throughout the years that I lost the desire for completely after seeing what brand of disgusting trash they let fuck them.
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u/mle_eliz May 27 '25
She also could have come to you about dating when she was first ready to date but instead she chose to date John.
I would also lose interest in someone who chose to date someone they knew was a jerk. It’s a major turn off.
It’s also a major turn off that she demanded you defend your position and justify why you weren’t interested any longer. She took for granted that because you were interested at one point that you always would be and then seemed to feel entitled to your interest remaining intact while she did what she wanted to first.
Obviously she’s allowed to do what she wants and doesn’t owe you an explanation. But that goes both directions. You are also allowed to do what you want and she shouldn’t have demanded an explanation if she wasn’t prepared to hear something she didn’t like.
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u/Vegetable_Pea_870 May 27 '25
Uhhh you can’t control who you’re attracted to physically but you can actually control whether or not you date the shitty hot guy. Nta
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u/TrespassersWill May 27 '25
NTA.
She's shallow. Once she settled into the new place she went for the hot guy first. She probably fell for the tactic where he criticized other people but not her so she felt special.
Of course, once he had her he was done with that.
So then she moved down the list of options to you.
Ick.
And her reaction to your explanation is double ick.
Your friends must think you're wrong for giving up the chance at an easy lay. No one paying attention would think you're wrong for your read on her.
I do wonder what would have happened if she had accepted your date initially.
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
>I do wonder what would have happened if she had accepted your date initially.
She would have dumped him as soon as John showed interest, or she would have cheated with John.
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u/clearheaded01 May 27 '25
NTA
Youre correct - she dated him knowing hes a prick... and that reflects on her..
And as others have pointed out, youre her plan b... or rather - she wanted to give the 'bad boy' a spin before settling for the good, reliable guy...
Imo shes not even friend material....
And.... all these years witnessing him cheating on his fiancee... fucking a married member of the club... you not informing his fiancee at the time of his behavior... and not informing the husband of the married member he was fucking... that reflects poorly on YOU!!!
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u/Away-Research4299 May 27 '25
NTA. If someone with that history asked me out, man or woman, I would pass too. At the same time, I don’t think you should waste your time trying to make her see sense. If it helps her live with herself then she can continue to pretend that this is because of your insecurity instead of her actions.
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u/No-Lifeguard9194 May 27 '25
It would have been one thing if the guy had fooled her (a newcomer to the group) into thinking he was a good person and then took the mask off after they were dating, but she KNEW what he was all about beforehand!!
So yeah, either her judgement or her values or both are problematic, and the fact that she doesn’t even understand that - given her choice to misinterpret your reasoning- is just further proof that you are correct. NTA.
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u/TWAndrewz May 27 '25
It is ok to judge people for their behavior and who you date or associate with is part of your behavior. It's insane that we have to say that these days.
NTA
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u/Odd_Seesaw_3451 May 27 '25
NTAH - I wouldn’t want to date someone who had knowingly dated a terrible person.
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u/Radiance115 May 27 '25
NTA. Her actions make it clear she has a weak character and values. To see for herself how bad of a person that guy is and admonish him for it, then turn around and date him because she’s horny is disgusting. The fact that she calls you after the guy predictably treats her badly is a clear sign you’re her second option due to her being unable to change the man. Even if you two did date, what happens when another asshole who looks good enough charms her? Save yourself the trouble move on entirely.
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u/gizap99 May 27 '25
Also, there’s few things more courageous than an overweight person jogging in public. His cruelty and disrespect honestly should have gotten him kicked out of the club for poor conduct. She was cruddy for going out with that c@!t.
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u/Patient-Public9728 May 27 '25
You were in the right. You could do better, and from what you typed about her, you should probably end the friendship as well
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u/Fair-Ad-7258 May 27 '25
NTA, Refreshing to read about someone with standards and self respect. Apparently you didn’t wait around to be her backup plan, your friendship will be probably take a hit as well.
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u/Skywaffles_ May 27 '25
Bro, you allowed to say no to dating someone. The reason is irrelevant. She should have left it at your “we’re better off as friends explanation” and just accepted your response. NTA
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u/No_Nature_5979 May 27 '25
She said she didn’t want to date because she was new in town and then dates John???? You’re just the back up, the fall back guy. You should’ve told her your not a consolation prize
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u/Early-Letterhead3269 May 27 '25
You've dodged a bullet there..
You wouldn't want to date someone who sees you as a backup as well.
She's just hurt that you have a standard.
You are a good man. You don't need to what others say. You know what you want for a woman and stick with it.
Updateme
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u/Ioaskaaaa May 27 '25
"You cant control who you are attracted too"
Which ever friend told you that is a massive moron. Of course you can, its called self control and its pretty easy.
NTA.
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u/Fun_Fennel5114 May 27 '25
I feel that Jane *should* have let you know that she was ready to date, when that time came. You aren't a mind reader. The fact that she dated creeper John, even knowing how he treats people (women especially) demonstrates that she is vulnerable to a pretty face, but not strength of character.
That said, there is no reason to give explanations for how you feel. You were attracted to her and now you are not. That's really all that needs to be said.
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u/Tertiam May 27 '25
NTA. Your take is 100% correct, and she proved it to you. Good for you, man. Proud of your discernment and self-respect.
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u/Lucky-Vegetable-2827 May 27 '25
You are right. You surround yourself with people that you want and choose. That choice is a reflection of you. Her values seem to be very fluid so don’t surround yourself with this type of people.
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u/ThisWeekInTheRegency May 27 '25
I admire your moral strength and I agree - someone who would date a man who had SHOWN he was a horrible person right in front of her? Shallow and uncritical, with dubious ethics.
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u/Acceptablepops May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
Nta people are hilarious to think you’re still hung up on them even the second time they see you. lol i get so much shit for telling don’t pay attention to them just watch what/who they go for.
Edit : the audacity she has to think you’ve been in a frozen block waiting for her to give the opportunity is insane.
She tried to insult you because you kept her accountable, she was okay with his behavior for months and would still be dating bro if he “had time for her”
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u/MoralityFleece May 27 '25
I don't think the issue is that she dated an unpleasant guy. Many people have stupidly dated horrible people. It's a mystery and shouldn't prevent them from waking up and being able to date a better person later.
The issue here is that she turned you down, clearly preferred John, then decided John wasn't good after all, and now moved on to you as a second choice. Nope, it would have been ok if she didn't turn you down first, but she had her chance and showed she wasn't all that into you until the grass looked greener. Get a woman who is super excited to be with you from day one.
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u/fzooey78 May 26 '25
Normally when these scenarios are shared, I’m pretty grossed out about the insecurity of the woman/man presenting the scenario.
They seem like they have a big chip on their shoulder and have some holier than thou self righteousness. They finally get to have their comeuppance.
But this is sound. She dated a shitty dude knowing he was a shitty dude. The Trump supporter thing and cheating are bad enough, but I miiiiiight have been able to overlook that.
How he treated that women who attended run club was horrifying. No way I’d be okay with that. Over. Done.
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u/MantisBuffs May 26 '25
I mean it’s not comeuppance to not want to date someone who rejected you simply because dude they rejected you.
If someone tells you they don’t want you, you don’t have to take them because they came back after their failed thing and said your queue is up lmao
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u/midorikuma42 May 27 '25
How he treated the women who attended is indeed terrible, but I think the blatant cheating is even worse: bringing his side piece to the club while he has a fiance??? What kind of self-respecting woman would want to date a guy who does this? She has to know she'll be cheated on too (which is probably what really happened to Jane and why he "didn't have enough time" for her).
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u/fgspq May 27 '25
NTA.
A shame about the misogynistic comments in some of the replies. But yeah, physical looks are only one aspect of attraction. I remember once going on a date with someone who was so incredibly hot, but turned out to be the most vacuous, boring person I had ever met. I wasn't even entertaining a one night stand at that point as I was itching to leave after a single drink.
Her dating that dickhead, even though she knew about his past, suggests your values aren't aligned.
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May 27 '25
"cant control who you are attracted too"
But can control what you do about it? Man or Women....
I Walk by 1000 people aday I find attractive?
She chose to date a scumb - this BY PROXY makes you a scumbag,
NAH
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u/Platypus_Neither May 26 '25
She chose to date a bully after witnessing him bullying someone with her own eyes. Yeah, that's a total red flag.
NTA.