r/Abkhazia • u/Capital-Wrongdoer-62 • 8d ago

How History is taught in Abkhazia?

In georgia we are taught that Apsua North Caucasian people came from mountains to abkhaz land in 15th- century when georgia was fractured and weak. Main argument is that Abkhaz kingdom was feudal already in 9th century while Apsua in 19th century russia are still in tribal system. And also their is no sign of etnic or language difference in abkazia before 15th- century

Just want to know what you think about it and what you are taught. And what are you arguments. Not to fight or say that i am right you are wrong.

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u/Capital-Wrongdoer-62 8d ago

Well people here will say that you are taught bullshit. This type of statements serve no purpose.

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u/Abaza-6-7-13 8d ago

Dude, this is a stupid, revisionist historical narrative that has been completely debunked. Even the most respected historians in Georgia agree that it's nonsense now. Many Georgians, those who call themselves modern, Western, liberal, etc., have tried to prove to me that this narrative is no longer taught in Georgia. So, they're lying, too.

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u/Mikheil3004 8d ago

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/D%27Anville._Carte_huil%C3%A9e_de_la_G%C3%A9orgie_et_de_l%27Arm%C3%A9nie.XVIIIe_si%C3%A8cle.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_maps_of_the_Caucasus#/media/File:Gastaldi-2.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Old_maps_of_the_Caucasus#/media/File:Gastaldi.jpg

The old maps are also nonsense?! Today's Abkhazian territory has always belonged to the Georgians, which is why you only find Georgian cherries in present-day Abkhazia. How do you explain that?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

Yes, almost all of the medieval maps are considered to have many inaccuracies. It is ignorant to think and make claims otherwise.

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u/Mikheil3004 7d ago

I don't understand you! You claim, well, the old maps are all far too inaccurate and the Georgian churches were built by Absuas. But we're supposed to believe some old stories? That's why it's so difficult to discuss things with you, because you deny simple facts. And why did the Abkhaz kings write and continue to write Georgian? Oh, you were illiterate, but you could have founded an Abkhazian kingdom and conquered all of Colkhetia. The first attempt to annex eastern Georgia, or rather Iberia, came from the Apkhazian kingdom! Well, what do you say to that? And why did you move the capital to Kutaisi? A small Abkhazian people who spoke Georgian ruled all of Georgia?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

Typical all same themes answered here many many times. It is all right, I don't expect you to understand anything since you have been thought tailored history in your schools as OPs question indicated. It is not your fault.

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u/Mikheil3004 7d ago

And what do they teach you in school? Only mythology and the last few centuries of your history. You're just like the Russians; you can only emphasize the last few centuries, since there's no evidence at all that the Abkhaz Empire belonged to the Absuas. Sooner or later, the truth will come out, whether we like it or not. But the fact is that Colchis was the oldest kingdom, if you can call it a kingdom. The Alans, Armenians, etc., came later. And the North Caucasians attacked the South Caucasians or Georgians when we were weakened and fighting with the Arabs, Turks, or Iranians...

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

Okay :)

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u/Grouchy_Detective880 6d ago

It is all right, I don't expect you to understand anything since you have been thought tailored history in your schools as OPs question indicated. It is not your fault.

I am sorry, but are you joking? I can't understand why you think that the history you study at school is correct and isn't modified/altered, or interpreted in a way to justify the existence of "independent Apsua". Just like the comments on this post about the Abazgi tribe and somehow putting an equal sign between them and you (your ancestors), when, in practice, we don't know much about them.

I have never studied Ingoroyva's theory or the wall in school. I got to know them only after school and have already forgotten them. I remembered about it only when I read it in this sub. I am sure if I stopped people in Tbilisi and asked about the theory and the wall, not many of them would know them.

These are the topics about Abkhazia that I studied in school in history classes (and still remember that I learnt them there):

  • Kingdom of Abkhazia
  • "Life of Grigol Khandzteli"(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_of_Khandzta). When he was travelling to Abkhazia and building monasteries
  • Unification of Georgia in the X-XI centuries
  • War in Abkhazia (of course)
  • House of Sharvashidze
  • There should be more, but I am not sure if I learnt them lately

I searched for a student's history book in PDF to share, but I couldn't find it (only books with world history).

P.S. I have never heard of any historical source, like maps, archaeological materials, records, or other stuff, proving your theories. Only random websites, screens, and (of course) Wikipedia. Probably, they really exist, I don't know, but it is what I see from you (not only this sub, in general).

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u/Mikheil3004 7d ago

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Abraham_Ortelius_-_Tvrcici_imperii_descriptio.jpg

Only the maps from the last century give you precise information about where the Absuas live in present-day Abkhazian territory. Is it also all nonsense to you that the Mengrelen built a wall against you because you repeatedly attacked them and burned down the villages?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

So this is also what they teach about Kelasuri wall?

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u/Mikheil3004 7d ago

Yuri Voronov), a well-known Abkhazian historian and archaeologist, examined the Abkhazian wall in 1966-1971 and proposed a new date of its construction. According to Voronov, Prince of Mingrelia, Levan II Dadiani built Kelasuri Walls between 1628 and 1653 to protect his fiefdom from the Abkhaz invasions (though at that time Principality of Abkhazia was a nominal vassal of Mingrelia). Per Voronov's work the embrasures in the wall were made for firearms; he also quoted Georgian historian Vakhushti and Italian missionary Arcangelo Lamberti who both wrote about the wall built by Megrelian princes for protection from the Abkhaz.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

Yeah all this claims are well known but there is no solid evidence that it was built by Megrelian princes. It is most probably much more older than that. You are just copy pasting from Wikipedia. Why don't you copy paste other half? This shows how you handle information. Again not your fault. It is surprising that Education level in Abkhazia is much more advanced.