r/AlAnon • u/Discombobulated_Fawn • 1d ago
Support When does an alcoholic acknowledge the damage he’s done to others?
Does it take a while? If the person refuses to acknowledge, will that hurt their sobriety?
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u/EllyStar 1d ago
Addicts notoriously refuse to accept any accountability.
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u/Discombobulated_Fawn 1d ago
Well some of them must.Isn’t that one of the 12 steps?
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u/EllyStar 1d ago
I’m sure others will chime in, but saying it as part of a program and actually believing it are two different things.
I have only experienced surface-level accountability, as part of a checklist for the 12 steps. Actual remorse and acceptance of the harm they caused is extremely rare. Blame must always be shared when it comes to addicts.
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u/Accio_Diet_Coke 1d ago
In my experience the accountability is limited to the addicts retelling of what they “feel” they’ve done on a surface level and if you challenge that account with your personal sober memories you are not supporting them sufficiently.
A lot of “it’s in the past”, “how long are you going to hold onto that”, etc…
People who continuously were allowed to say I was drunk/high and can’t remember or be held accountable are now able to demand you accept their version of history as accurate and if not you are now the problem.
I don’t know anyone on the receiving side of step 4 who has felt great about it. Although I guess it’s not really for us, another selfish twist.
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u/Thin_Elderberry_8864 1d ago
I agree. Anytime I try to bring up the years of daily horrendous behavior of his that hurt others, the response is usually the "Why do you keep bringing up the past? You always try to start trouble." and the same that you mentioned of how long are you going to hold onto that. There has been no real accountability of any kind.
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u/Discombobulated_Fawn 1d ago
Lmao. So what is “supporting “ them then? Orchestrate reality to eliminate the most amount of pain for them?
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u/Iggy1120 1d ago
That’s their version of support, yes.
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u/Discombobulated_Fawn 1d ago
You can take the alcohol out of the narcissist, but you can’t take the narcissism out of the alcoholic
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u/thisishellthisishell 1d ago
My Q literally just revealed what I consider to be a huge betrayal the other day. And moments later tells me I shouldn’t be upset because it was “in the past.” Dude, it’s not in the past for me. I LITERALLY just found out about it. Also said he shouldn’t have told me because I got upset, as if I don’t deserve honesty. I understand that seeming the depth of hurt and damage they have cause loved ones is a lot to handle, but denying it or minimizing it will never allow those relationships to heal.
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u/im_fuck3d 1d ago
I’ll be honest none of that sounds like accountability. Hell, even if they do offer real accountability, you don’t owe anyone anything.
But yeah, expecting forgiveness for fake accountability like you’ve described just sounds like a new evolution of the disease 🩷
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u/earth_school_alumnus 1d ago
Same!! Humility lasts about 30 seconds and then he is resentful when his “I’m sorry” doesn’t yield a response that makes him feel better. The remorse is only as deep as he is sorry he is in trouble and has created consequences he doesn’t like. His apologies are said to remedy HIS bad feelings, not the feelings of the people he has hurt. Alcoholics are incredibly selfish and emotionally stunted - they believe that their negative feelings justify the way they treat people. “I feel sad/lonely/disappointed” means “I can pout/act angry,resentful/blame someone else”. Any trying to get them to see this feeds into their narrative that they are the victim “all you do is criticize me and bring me down”.
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u/EllyStar 1d ago
In a brief, rare, never-repeated moment of honesty, my Q once said “I resent you because just by being around you, I’m reminded of all the things I’ve done and ways I’ve hurt you.”
This statement brought me a tremendous amount of clarity. And anger.
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u/Violin_Diva 1d ago
I wonder how true that is for other alcoholics. Thanks for sharing that moment.
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u/aquaticaviation 1d ago
I'm an alcoholic myself. And my eldest brother is one too. We're both sober now. I am for 21 months, and he is for 3. Apart from alcohol being the same substance, our addictions have a totally different shape.
I found the damage I was causing to others unbearable, and that's eventually what gave me the strength to pursue sobriety. I have spoken at length with the people close to me to apologize and understand. I have tried to rectify the wrongs. Genuinely.
My brother has done none of that. He is an example of the 'its in the past', 'its the addiction', 'i don't remember so why should I apologise'. It has driven me mad, but I'm working on letting it go.
I write this to show how it can be different. And how, in my opinion, not acknowledging the damage you have caused is unacceptable. its a sign of a dry sober person, they are not working on true recovery. It is not 'a part of alcoholism', the person can and should acknowledge and repair. If they don't, then it's all just bullshit tbh.
Also, I'm generally not interested in dealing with people who think they can treat me like shit. Alcoholic or not. Being an alcoholic is not an excuse to behave like an ass.
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u/zanyzanne 1d ago
Sometimes never. And even if they apologize, they don't remember being awful. They're apologizing for something they barely believe even happened. It never helped me feel any better, especially because the apology wasn't accompanied by changed behavior. If there's no change in behavior, there's no real accountability. And we can't control that AT ALL.
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u/Ok-Mongoose1616 1d ago
Sobriety is not Recovery. Getting an apology from someone lacking Recovery is useless. They are still addicted. Just not drinking.
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u/Ok_Assistant2730 1d ago
This is my Q... the times he has said sorry, the same behavior happens over and over again. So idgaf about "apologies" at all, they're useless
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u/zanyzanne 1d ago
Then they hold the apology against you, like 'I apologized, what more do you want?'
ugh
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u/National-Plastic8691 1d ago
As part of AlAlon, I try to shift the focus to protecting myself, moving on, and achieving my goals. That said, I keep track of their behavior and it helps me move on
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u/no_judgements_22 1d ago
Well said.
I feel, our Qs accepting accountability, is really for their benefit.
Us focusing on ourselves, is for ours.
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u/loverules1221 1d ago
My husband did not go to AA. It took him doing something awful for him to say enough is enough and commit to a better way of life and keep our marriage. We are now able to have conversations about it and he has apologized quite a few times for all the bullshit he has done, the chaos he created, the damage to several relationships he has caused, etc. This was after 12+ years of being together. He’s going on 4 1/2 or so months of sobriety. The last video and pictures of his asshole drunken behavior was his turning point. I’m sure everyone’s different. This is just my experience. I waited a very long time. He knows that I will not go backwards no matter what. If he drinks again it’s divorce.
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u/stinkstankstunkiii 1d ago
Never, or only to shut you up. At least that’s been my experience. And then , he always , ALWAYS finds a way to be the victim & shift blame to me , or one of my kids.
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u/DarbyFCrash 1d ago
This is my experience as well.
He started drinking again after I ended our relationship despite still being in my home for another month. He tells everyone that my personality changed, I went crazy, and he did nothing wrong. Not once did he acknowledge his addiction (alcohol, thc or both), apologize for any of the hurt he caused, or do anything to help repair our relationship during the 3 months he (mostly) didn’t drink (but still took edibles every night). Yep, I changed buddy, I put my foot down and demanded effort. When I didn’t get it, I ended it.
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u/nomerjr23 1d ago
This, hit right where I am currently. My Q has completely gone adrift through a combination of alcohol and delta-9 gummies, daily. But her rendition of why our relationship is in chaos is because I’ve just changed so much and am always angry. Her narrative is she HAS to take gummies and drink to DEAL with me. As if her addiction has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The fact that I challenge her actions and behavior is enough to qualify me as the worst person she’s ever known. No amount of talking, rationalizing, pr trying to figure out how to fix it is going to work until she fixes the disease and the skewed way of thinking. Luckily she’s in rehab right now.
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u/HappyandFullfilled 1d ago
That wouldn’t be my business. They get to figure that out. I get to acknowledge and take responsibility for what I do. I can’t be trying to decide what other people should feel bad about or should be responsible for.
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u/Neacha 1d ago
I am trying to get where you are
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u/HappyandFullfilled 1d ago
It was hard work. I was pretty broken and tried hard to fix other people. By the time I came to Alanon I knew it was true when I heard step one. Getting a sponsor helped me really get there too!
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u/Neacha 1d ago
I am working the steps my self and have been on my faults for quite some time as me and my Q are quite co dependent, or should I say that I enabled him.
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u/HappyandFullfilled 1d ago
You need to work the steps with a sponsor, they are not designed to be done alone.
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u/Neacha 1d ago
i did not know that sponsors were part of Alanon?
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u/HappyandFullfilled 1d ago
Absolutely! I don’t think I would have made the progress I have without one!
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u/Similar-Skin3736 1d ago
It depends on the person.
My husband is fully remorseful and has a long-term period of recovery to show. It took me years to fully accept the reality of my loss from his drinking. And he was patient in my continuing the rebuilding of trust. It’s not just “I’m sorry” “I forgive you.” Even when I forgave him with my brain, my heart still grieved my role as a sahm and that took years to fully accept.
But if my dad was the only addict I know, it’s say something more polarizing about addicts never accept responsibility 😂 bc my dad just cannot. He seemed like he was going tO at one point, but then later told me he only told me what I needed to hear to “move on” and that everybody exaggerated his behavior and he doesn’t remember any of it, etc etc etc. I refuse to speak to him now bc of how awful he is, even sober. He never “recovered” He just stopped drinking (supposedly).
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u/Discombobulated_Fawn 1d ago
Wow. Something in my mind clicked as I was reading your thoughts. I was very patient with him when he was drinking, so he needs to be patient with me as I try to recover.
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u/Similar-Skin3736 1d ago
Yeah. Same here. I walked on eggshells hoping the threads would stop unraveling. I needed him to be the best he could be bc I went back to work and he was caring for the kids. He didn’t continue drinking after the relapse, but I was aware there were no guarantees and I was hyper-vigilant to the point of exhaustion.
So I didn’t scratch at the scabs.
It took a long time to finally let it out and I was a resentful mess at times.
With a couple’s therapist, I finally started working through it all. In all, it took about 7 years to really come to terms with my loss.
And to his credit, he was patient with me and understood that, because of my dad, I feel all the men in my life has let me down. He did, too.
Anyway. I definitely agree that he owes you the patience for you to work through it. Some men cannot, and then you get to decide if the damage was too great to move forward as a unit.
I can say with assurance that had he not been kind to me during my fall-apart, I wouldn’t have wanted to be in this anymore.
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u/Neacha 1d ago
he sounds like a dry drunk
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u/Similar-Skin3736 1d ago
Can confirm he is awful 😝 I like to mention my husband and dad bc if my husbands were my only Q, I’m sure I’d be an idiot talking about “of course they recover/take ownership” 🙄 but then my dad.
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u/EasternYoghurt7129 1d ago
Even though I sometimes fantasize about the day my Q recognizes what they have caused in the lives of the rest of us, i realize that is probably just my sense of righteousness vindication. I actually would RATHER them not. The guilt would kill a normal person. I’d honestly rather them just get well and look ahead. We can all just look ahead. I just hope that doesn’t come before it’s too late and we only have the past to look at.
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u/Neacha 1d ago
Seems my Q never will and honestly that makes me angry sometimes. Even though I know he appreciates me sticking by him, he just wants to leave the past in the past. Alcoholics are perpetual victims it seems.
He admits that he has missed out on a lot of life, to him that is being sorry. I think that he cannot face it yet, that he is too emotionally weak and that by him taking responsibility that might make him feel too guilty which would make him self medicate with alcohol one again,
Honestly, I wish he would tell me he is sorry for missing and/or ruining countless holidays and thank me for taking care of his son and our mother, but seems he never will. The pain he caused me when he threatened suicide, over and over, and over.
Someday I will "Learn to be Still". This is what is meant by forgiving them for ourselves, I am trying, but I am not there yet.
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u/NameUnavailable6485 1d ago
Never unless done sarcastically. They seem to think the awful things need to be forgotten because 1 they dont remember 2 they are turning over a new leaf 3 they are a narcissist
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u/photogmel 1d ago
It may be a while before an alcoholic, especially someone in AA will seek to make amends. Taking a personal inventory is hard, making a list of those harmed is harder, admitting to someone the nature of their wrongs is even harder than that. It’s usually the ones they have hurt the most who are last on the list because it is so hard to face that person and be so vulnerable. Give it time but also don’t set an expectation to even receive an amends.
Also, many alcoholics may not even know or remember what they have said or done so if you are expecting acknowledgement of specific things, you may be disappointed.
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u/Prompt65 1d ago
Been married for 8 years, and he never admitted to shit he did when he was in his sober period. I think it runs in his family, being in denial of how you hurt other people. My Q is functioning alcoholic and in my opinion they are the worst since he thinks if he gets up and goes to work, makes money, I should stop complaining.
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u/InevitableVictory729 1d ago
It could be never. Even if they do, their apology may feel unsatisfactory compared to what they did.
Don’t expect it, and don’t anticipate it magically healing whatever pain was caused. The true victory is achieving and maintaining long term sobriety and behavior change for the better. That is honestly the best apology they can give.
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u/Maleficent-Bug-2045 1d ago
They should do it right after treatment. It must be heartfelt. They should take full responsibility for some things they should regret for the rest of their life.
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u/Ok-Mongoose1616 1d ago
Speaking for myself only that didn't come into play until I started my Recovery. My sobriety had nothing to do with making amends.
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u/Much_Panda1244 1d ago
Alcoholic here, the answer is more complicated than yes and no. There’s a lot of work that goes into recovery, and people don’t just get better because they start. There’s about 10 feet of complete crap that keeps us from reality when an alcoholic who decides to go to AA steps into his first meeting. The work of a 12 step program is to claw away that crap, little by little, day in and day out. This is something that will not happen in a week, or a stint in a rehab, or even in 6 months to a year. It is a lifetime job of someone who is an Alcoholic to work for recovery and change. Self awareness is something we have to grow and maintain like a muscle. We don’t inherently have it like normal people.
Someone who is working a good program of recovery with a sponsor, and making a real effort will begin to understand and try to identify and change their old ways of thinking and acting, but this is something that only works if 1) the person is truly honest with themselves and others and 2) they continue to do this every day.
I’m sorry that someone has hurt you because of their addiction. I hope that you are able to find peace of mind regardless of if this person comes around or not, but there are definitely people out there who do get better and who do change. It is entirely up to them if they’re willing to surrender and do what’s necessary though.
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u/oakleaf33 1d ago
My dad's 67 now and I know he will go to his grave without admitting anything.
If they do, great, but for own peace of mind, it's best not to expect anything
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u/Seawolfe665 1d ago
Its SO hard. I love what Al-Anon has taught me so far. I'm stuck on some of the 4th and definitely the 5th steps:
- Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
- Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
The amends doesn't come until the 9th step. I am certainly not there yet. So I don't know that its fair to expect him to be there either.
However, my Q isn't even on a 12-step program. He is following his own path, and honestly doing pretty well with it. But its painful to realize that he may never make the amends. There is still a lot of trauma on my part from all the chaos and betrayals of trust.
I need to learn to live with that if our relationship will survive. One step at a time I guess.
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u/Discombobulated_Fawn 1d ago
I believe those of us who are patient and love them in spite of this…..will be rewarded in heaven more than we think. This is honestly self-sacrificing love. I’ve given up a lot for him.
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u/Violin_Diva 1d ago
All my Q did was gaslight me and use that oldy but goody of, “it’s all in the past.” And I KNOW he remembers a lot of it. His own son refuses to speak to him because Q won’t own up to the pain he caused the entire family. Your own child wants you to acknowledge, not even apologize, how you wrecked his and his sibling’s teenage years and you still can’t manage to humble yourself for 5 minutes? That says it all. And then Q had the nerve to be surprised when I sent divorce papers. Somehow I’m being unfair and destructive towards HIM? I could go without seeing him for the rest of my life, but I’m not that lucky.
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u/LovesRainPT 1d ago
I was once told from another Al anon goer that expecting a well worded, timely, and thorough apology from an alcoholic is like going to the butcher to get milk.
Agree with what everyone else has said. I remind myself that my Q likely doesn’t know everything they’ve done when they were in active addiction. So an apology is useless. Would love some acknowledgement and behavior change but, alas, that’s not in my control.
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u/Discombobulated_Fawn 19h ago
That’s such a weird mentality that if you don’t remember it, you don’t need to apologize. Where did this come from? If you did it you did it, irregardless of your mental state, you should still be sorry you did it. The only reason not to is if you honestly think someone is trying to frame you or blame you for something you did not do.
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u/LovesRainPT 11h ago
I mean fair. An apology would be nice. But my Q is still in complete brain is Swiss cheese, conflating stories and the wrong doings they’ve done mode. So any apology isn’t genuine, but a way to avoid accountabilit6.
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u/Fit_Bake_3000 22h ago
Alcoholics who are recovering will do their best to make a face to face amend , unless it may hurt the other person.
The amend is made in step 9. You can find a list of our steps on the web.
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u/Expensive_Buyer_2190 14h ago
Not even on her deathbed would my mother apologize. In her somewhat weak defense, she did acknowledge my horror filled memories as true but never made the leap to the damage inflicted. Something shuts off in alcoholics/addicts. They’re mostly narcissistic, I believe.
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u/10handsllc 1d ago
I would not expect many in person apologies from an addict. Partly because if they “believe” it will hurt them to make amends individually they are allowed to write a letter or work it out in conversation with their sponsor. This is at least how I understand it.
The shared blame is accurate and I suspect there is a bit of hostility towards those they have offended that could be simply envy or jealousy. My Q told me numerous times through her brief sober moments that it really ate at her that other people could drink and she could not. No matter how many times she acknowledged going off the rails she still believed she should not be judged for it. Wow, this is the first time I typed or spoke these words and holy crap, I have blown my own mind in relief yet again because I have moved on from the incomprehensible actions of my former spouse.
Don’t wait for an apology whether you stay or leave.