r/AoSLore • u/Ok-Professor-2048 • 8d ago
How Physical are Stormcast Eternals ?
The lore is that they are empowered by Sigmar the way Chaos exponering their warriors. I do wonder just how physically strong, fast, durable etc a SE (Stormcast Eternals) is compared to human or a Chaos empowered equivalent warrior.
In the previous edition Chaos warriors statline was Str 4, Intiative 4/5, Toughness 4 and Wounds 2 . Whereas human warriors were generally at 3s in all those areas. What would SE be in those terms ?
On another note I find it very reasonable that Sigmar took that road. It was logical to choose to create the sort of empowered warriors that made chans so powerful and succesful. For once "the Good åowers" arent completely stupid. Ofc u can question how God Sigmar is since the reforging strips the SE of their personality and all that made them human. And they dont get so much of a choice in the matter.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 8d ago
You do get a choice whether or not to be reforged, as completely reshaping someone's body and soul requires willingness and consent, same as with becoming a Chaos champion. You're just choosing to pursue the best parts of yourself instead of the most evil. What's more, typically the Chaos Gods manipulate you and your circumstances to obtain that consent (how many champions of Khorne started on their path when they swore revenge on the Khornate warlord who murdered their families, for example) while Sigmar chooses people who freely give their lives due to circumstances out of His control.
That said, in terms of physical strength and abilities, Stormcast are akin to demigods and other powerful heroes of ancient myths and legends. This is, obviously, a very vaguely-defined and diverse range of different strength and abilities, which plays into the narrative strengths of the setting.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 8d ago
There's also an actual three day and night waiting period in the Heldenhall afterlife located in Azyr. As well as stories like "Soul Wars" that show the slightest unwillingness, even in a moment of confusion, can throw you out of the process turning you into a lightning-gheist.
So yeah. The claims of souls being made into Stormcasts unwillingly doesn't held up. Maybe the initial lighting strike took you against your will but everything else? You gotta be willing to survive the horrors of Reforging.
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u/Ok-Professor-2048 8d ago
I stand corrected. I just remember reading the first novel in AoS and it seemed they were taken without their consent.
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u/8-Brit 7d ago
It's a little vague, we know there's consent but there is an interesting dilemma at play.
A good person that is wholly selfless and heroic is given the choice of saving ten thousand innocent people by offering their own life, or walking away with no consequences at all.
Obviously this person will always choose to give themselves up to save ten thousand, but then how much of a choice is that?
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u/posixthreads Slaves to Darkness 8d ago
You do get a choice whether or not to be reforged, as completely reshaping someone's body and soul requires willingness and consent
This can't be right. Around the start of the 4th edition with the new Stormcast Chamber, I distinctly recall a short story where a Stormcast's soul was forced to be reforged against its will after it had suffered to many reforgings.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 8d ago edited 8d ago
suffered to many reforgings.
So... a soul that has already been a Stormcast for awhile, is currently in the Anvil, clearly didn't have a Lord-Terminos find it in time, and if it isn't Reforged will suffer one of several fates worse than oblivion: Becoming a Lightning-gheist hellbent on murdering its own loved ones; being shattered into an irreparable soul; joining the Storm Eternal; needing to be shoved in a statue so it can't hurt itself or another?
Not exactly a lot Sigmar and the Six Smiths can do after the soul is already multiple Reforgings deep and in the Anvil. Outside of giving up on it out of hand. Damning it without giving it a chance for a stint in Ruination Chamber or at least getting to go out on its own terms under a Terminos's axe.
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u/Ok-Professor-2048 7d ago
This I need to read more about. I have been out of the loop for a while. So after too many reforgings u can become a murderous ghast ? And the solutions are eternal imprisonment or some kind eternal destruction?
Jesus AoS is a lot darker than I remember.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 7d ago
You can also elect to have yourself thrown into a Star Bridge, destroying your mind, body, and soul as you essentially become a battery for a cosmic highway that ensures fellow Stormcast Eternals souls can make it back to Azyr even if lightninging directly to heaven isn't possible.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 7d ago
As Mutt said, whether or not you come to regret your reforging after having the humanity stripped away from you over many reforgings is a different matter than whether or not you consented to be reforged into an eternal in the first place. Even if you got told (which the first stormcast probably weren't because no one knew) that you could lose that which makes you human, that is such a vague thing to take into consideration when you just willingly gave your life knowing that you were likely going to be sent to Nagash or have your soul torn apart by daemonic entities for all eternity and are told that neither or those things is gonna happen. Sometimes the consequences of your actions and decisions are out of even the gods' hands
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 8d ago
reforging strips the SE of their personality
Not on purpose, that's explicitly a design flaw so bad that Sigmar and his allies call it the capital f Flaw in Reforging. Stormcast Eternals are chosen because of their personalities. The qualities that make them them are what allow them to survive Reforging, prosecute Sigmar's wars and orders, and even defy him when that's the correct option. Sigmar pretty regularly encourages defiance if the Stormcast's actions lead to greater good than Sigmar's plans.
There are a lot of arguments to be made about Sigmar's morality. He had every last Azyrite Orruk butchered just to make Azyr safer, he punished the entire senate of Azyrheim during the Cleansing of Azyr due to the actions of a few, he approved a brainwashing brand on soldiers who ran during the Gheist invasions of Azyr. He's done some bad stuff.
But taking the Stormcasts personalities? Nah. He's consistently been said to not like that that happens since at least the 2E Corebook, he was stressed about a potential flaw before the Realmgate Wars per the 3E Stormcast Eternal Battletome, in the 4E Sacrosanct Battletome Supplement he let Astreia Solbright lead thousands of Eternals in defiance of his edicts because even though he publicly declared after years of searching there is no Cure to the Flaw, privately he hopes Astreia will prove him and Ionus Cryptborn wrong.
We've seen enough info from enough sources to know the memory and personality lose is absolutely not the intent, and in fact does nothing but stretch Sigmar's battle lines thin as the end result of that lose isn't a soldier. It's a soul unraveling into a gheist or nothingness. Not useful.
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u/Ok-Professor-2048 8d ago
Oh I never said it was intentional. Nor did I mean that. Whete can I read more aboutbhis actions in Azyr ? Would love to know more.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 8d ago
Here and there mostly. The brand thing is mentioned in the 2E Stormcast Eternals Battletome, the Orruk one whenever the Cleansing is mentioned. "Hamilcar: Champion of the Gods" has Hamilcar recount pleading, successfully, for a Gargant tribe Sigmar wanted dead. "Anvils of the Heldenhammer: The Ancients" has him and Morathi make a deal behind the scenes to officially claim Morathi freed the Anvils she kidnapped in Broken Realms but were in reality freed by other Anvils.
Mostly any good book involving Stormcasts is going to give an honest view of Sigmar with some ugly bits. "Soul Wars", "Black Pyramid", "Code of the Skies", "Yndrasta: The Celestial Spear".
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u/k3lk3l Archmage Collegium 8d ago
As from the battletomes for 4th edition describe it, as well as the statistics shown within the tabletop.
We can assume that your darkoath lower level is the chaos equivalent of a city of sigmar
Chaos warriors are the equivalent to stormcast
Chosen are equivalent to reclusians/ annihilators
Lots of headcanon is that Sigmar decided to take a note from chaos, and create his own mortals empowered by godlike energy to perform superhuman feats.
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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Order 8d ago
While not the same as what you are asking, I saw this on analysis going through the fine details say that your average fully armored Chaos Warrior, the evil counterparts of the Stormcast Eternals, could take around 12 of the Empire's state troops in a head to head fight, assuming the mortal humans didn't exploit any tricks or terrain tactics. However, the gap in power between your garden variety grunt and the named character is insane.
To put it in simple terms while the average Chaos Warrior in Fantasy would much weaker than the average Space Marine, named Chaos Warriors would be strong enough to be an average Space Marine.
Now, when it comes to Age of Sigmar, I see even less reason to try quantifying power to an exact level because it is set up even more like a world of mythology. So I feel the answer to how strong anything is is "yes."
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 8d ago
In the short story "The Thorn Mile" there is a mural of a Stormcast named Maklav fighting a drake with a hammer. Another Eternal who recognizes the moment clarifies Maklav had no hammer, he fought the dragon with his fists.
Maklav lacks a War Name/Deed Name, the surnames Stormcast officers have, which means this was likelt a ranker who wasn't even a Prime.
So you are right, there is no reason to try to quantify power levels. Because there are no-name rank and file out there beating dragons to death with their fists while storied Chaos Lords get massacred by a newly formed Freeguild Cavalier orders out in the sticks. In the Realms war is war, and anyone can kill anyone else in war if they are lucky or clever.
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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Order 8d ago
Exact power levels are never something Warhammer writers cared about in any setting, I realized that a long time ago even though I was never a hardcore fan. I have seen 40K fans point out the Avatar of Khaine getting used as a punching bag, but that's not the only example. Unless Daemon Princes are the focus of a story they are jobbers. Even named Greater Daemons with models in an army often show up to become items on someone's resume since they can't die.
Outside of that you also have moments like daemons getting beaten by mortals in the Warp. Kaldor Draigo got flack for doing that but he's not the only character to ever accomplish such a feat. A daemon princes named Uraka beat a Bloodthirster in the Warp. Uraka wasn't a genetically enhanced superhuman, a psyker or a trained daemon hunter like Draigo, he was just a mortal follower of Chaos.
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u/Axe1_the_Minerva_fan Helsmiths of Hashut 8d ago
Compared to Chaos Warriors basically equals (Warriors to Liberators, Reclusians to Chosen etc.)
Their upside is they respawn, while Chaos Warriors are 10 times (up to 60 times if you are feeling the Chaos Glaze, numbers are stretchy in AoS) more numerous
Compared to humans is effectively the same as warriors in this case, which varies by the author and particular interpretation of the warhammer studio in each publication.