r/AoSLore • u/Professional_Tie_860 • 5d ago
News (Official) Who are the Helsmiths of Hashut? - Warhammer Community
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/cdfuejhk/who-are-the-helsmiths-of-hashut/66
u/Gecktron Kharadron Overlords 5d ago
Their society reflects this hellish desire for control, a rigid thing founded in oaths and debts. Quite unlike the honest pledges made by other duardin, these pacts are for material, time, services owed – combined they are known as the Wage of Toil. Every level of Zharrdron society is indebted to another in some way, chains of obligation linking despots to Daemonsmiths, clans of equal standing engaging in trading and rivalries. At the heart of it all lies rampant individualism, apprentices pledging untold hours to their cruel masters to glean but a kernel of knowledge, all the while plotting a route to the top enabled by bloody vengeance.
I really enjoy this bit.
A society build on debt contrasts nicely against the contracts and codes of the Kharadron society
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u/Ur-Than Kruleboyz 5d ago
I must confess I have a hard time seeing the difference right now. Contracts are, in effect, a form of debt.
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u/BackgroundHeron 5d ago
I think they’re very similar, but in Kharadron society the Contracts are at least nominally fair and mutually beneficial. It sounds like the Helsmiths deals are always trying to indenture one party to the other. I feel like it comes down to a matter of intent, where they use the same mechanisms as normal duardin but it’s twisted in malice. Quite emblematic of Chaos really.
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u/Significant-Bother49 5d ago
Exactly. It’s duradin culture gone dark. Rather than honorable deal making, it is being chained by it. The reason why it works is because the two could be interchangeable.
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u/Responsible-Big6168 Helsmiths of Hashut 5d ago
The way I see it, Kharadron are sorta modern capitalism, Zharrdron are indentured servitude
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u/RapidWaffle 5d ago
Contracts are an agreement, depending on what it is, it can be mutually beneficial, in its abstract it's merely a mechanism to prevent foul play (even if taken too far it can be draconian), but practice a lot of contracts benefit both parties like trade agreements
While the Zharradron type of debt is benefitting someone strictly one way
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u/TheBigness333 3d ago
I mean, if you’re vague enough sure. But the difference in the phrases are there. agreeing to a contract as a mutual benefit verse being forced into debt.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 5d ago
We eating better than a mordant at the ghoul-king's annual buffet these days!
Stranger things still are whispered of in the shadows – transformations and mutations beyond those seen in the lower echelons, sorcerous beasts with the heads of duardin elders scheming in the shadows of Hashut’s temples.
Lammasu!
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u/MrS0bek Idoneth Deepkin 4d ago
When GW? Release them now!
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u/Norwalk1215 4d ago
Probably during the end of edition campaign. I have a feeling that’s when they are going to release ascended Khorgus Khul.
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u/Ok_Strawberry_5595 5d ago
I love how this article hints that yesterdays lore isn't necessarily true. And removes any discrepancy between tow lore and aos lore
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u/Caffeine_Forge 5d ago
I also like how it keeps it intentionally vague while still not being entirely in the dark with it
These are Hashut's Claims but are these claims truth or lies?
Feels like a 'machine god' situation, where the community can take entirely different stances on the matter.
I, personally, think the claims are more truth then lies.-1
u/MrFishyFriend 4d ago
Is it? It sounds like total nonsense to me. Hashut was never an ancestor god. Unless this is a retcon this is a lie. There isn’t really any middle ground.
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u/Caffeine_Forge 4d ago
It definitely is a middle ground as there could very well be a retcon to make Hashut more interesting and give the Helsmiths more personality
Hashut lying?
- Old World lore that may or may not apply any longer.
- Main Source of information we've gotten has been from a biased source.
Hashut's claim being mostly true?
- Many events match up with events we know, such as The Thagduegi or the lack of Vallaya.
- Shrines of Hashut sealed away within Duardin holds.
- Timespan of AoS. The Ages take many thousands upon thousands of years, endless generations, the 'later stuff' of Hashut's origins occured mostly around the 'early' part of the Age of Myth as we know it. It is reasonable to think that Hashut could genuinely be a forgotten, forsaken Ancestor God.
Main thing is. Have they retconned Hashut to be an Ancestor God turned to chaos or does Old World lore still apply and Hashut is just a lying minor chaos god?
I personally lead more towards Hashut's claims being, for the most part, being truth.
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u/MrFishyFriend 4d ago
Why are you talking like a ChatGPT response?
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u/Caffeine_Forge 4d ago
Excuse me?
Sorry that I wanted to make my message a bit more presentable and not be a barely readable block of text?
ChatGPT didn't invent titles and bulletpoints
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u/NanoChainedChromium 3d ago
It is absurdly depressing that correct grammar, use of bulletpoints and a generally readable layout is now seen as hallmark of AI-use. Soon we will reach a stage where anything beyond grunts MUST be AI.
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u/RapidWaffle 5d ago
I feel like the truth is somewhere in the middle, if I had to guess it was a Nagash type situation where mortal enemies from the old world got along (somewhat) in the age of myth, though perhaps being (initially) less hateful than Sigash due to duardin codes of family even if, odd family.
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u/AyiHutha Vyrkos 5d ago
So the Hashuts origin story was given by Hashut which makes the whole thing even less reliable
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u/Significant-Bother49 5d ago
And I love that! It frames him as being the reasonable God. And the only one with any moral standing. Which is wonderful for a chaos god to present itself as.
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u/Infinite_Version Order 4d ago
I read elsewhere in this origin story that Hashut is also the handomest and coolest god and all the others are jealous of him.
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u/Norwalk1215 5d ago
They hinted at the Lammasu! Probably to be released at the end of this edition or next edition!
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u/dracoblade64 5d ago
What are Lammasu?
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 5d ago
In the Old World they were winged bulls with dwarfen heads, they could use magic and were often ridden by very powerful Chaos Dwarf sorcerers, with the implication that the mount, and not the rider was the true mastermind of the pair.
Here they seem to imply that Zharrdron may mutate into lamassu somehow, which is very interesting.
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u/Norwalk1215 5d ago
https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lammasu
Here is the lexicanum entry with some pictures. Kind of ugly but they are a classic chaos dwarf unit.
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u/onyxhaider 5d ago
Honestly, it makes sense why cults exist to him now in duardin society. Grungni let duardin face chaos alone, while Hashut came to their rescue. That's a debt that can not be paid back.
I'll be honest can someone explain the part about the society being built upon debt to each other?
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u/RapidWaffle 5d ago edited 5d ago
It seems to be a corruption of Dwarven oath culture, turning or interpreting oaths into unpaid debts, rather than being a part of Dwarven culture that's a cultural arbitrator of keeping promises, it's corrupted into essentially demanding oaths, in the form of debt, in exchange of, whatever you're getting in debt for.
So instead of someone swearing an oath of companionship or to keep a promise until fulfilled, it's an despot being an oathmaster with untold servants being in debt / oathbound to them until their oath is fulfilled in the form of repayment. With foul play and revenge being seen as an appropriate way to break free from oathbound debt, likely by murdering your superior
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 5d ago
It seems they are anarcho-capitalists basically. The exmple they give is apprentices signing away "untold hours of labour" to a daemonsmith in exchange for some knowledge. So extand this to every part of society. Warriors who serve in a company because they have all pledged X amount of time in service to a lord in exchange for a magic spear. Labourers trapped in predatory contracts where they are fed by a lord but can never work hard enough to repay him completely for the food he buys them with the fruit of their labour, etc. etc. A clan rescued by another clan, now forced to give away a large part of their profits to the rescuers for 200 years, war despots measuring their power by how many zharrdrons are in their debt.
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u/Caffeine_Forge 5d ago
Made some notes on some of the big things
- Zharrdron, their name, means 'folk of fire'
- The main initial Duardin who would become the Zharrdron were Duardin who chose to remain in the Karaks, Holds and Strongholds, during the age of chaos
He had spent many long years communicating with those trapped in their karak keeps by besieging daemons.
Hashut offered a more terrible solution to their never-ending war of attrition: the ability to turn such enemies into tools of war.
- Zharralid is how they turn Daemons of Chaos into fuel
- Primarily harvest undivided/unaligned daemons
- The Wage of Toil, Zharrdron society being a strict hierarchy built around debts
these pacts are for material, time, services owed – combined they are known as the Wage of Toil.
Every level of Zharrdron society is indebted to another in some way, chains of obligation linking despots to Daemonsmiths, clans of equal standing engaging in trading and rivalries. At the heart of it all lies rampant individualism, apprentices pledging untold hours to their cruel masters to glean but a kernel of knowledge, all the while plotting a route to the top enabled by bloody vengeance.
- Bull Centaurs are viewed highly as blessed individuals
- Hints to possible future units
- Start of the rivalry between Hashut and The Great Horned Rat, the Vermintide making a mess of Hashut's plans
Their plans, once measured in long centuries, have been accelerated by the idiotic actions of the Great Horned Rat, who has sundered the Mortal Realms and brought unwanted attention upon the ziggurats nestled therein.
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u/Creamxcheese 5d ago
God I need a Drekki Flynt style novel but with a helsmiths character on a train. I just know it'd go crazy
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u/NeverEnoughDakka Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
I fear we'll have to wait a long while for a novel. Just look at how long it took for the first Leagues of Votann novel to get released.
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u/Svedgard Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
Interesting note that their main targets for harvesting has been “Unaligned” daemons of chaos.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
Trying to keep a low profile. But now that they've revealed themselves I imagine they'll target Verminlords a lot more. And also Khornate and Tzeentchian daemons, since I bet Hashut hasn't let go of his claim over Aqshy and Chamon.
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u/Drexxl-the-Walrus 5d ago
For the first time since I started with chorfs back in 2012...
I HAVE A PROPER WALLPAPER LET'S GOOOOO
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 5d ago
Interesting that Zharralid is a script, and not the Zharrdrons' language.
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u/Scales77 5d ago
Another solid read on the Helsmiths! Also, I am really loving the artwork that was shown off, especially the piece with the trains.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 5d ago
I like how their fire is more turquoise than truly green in these.
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u/Scales77 5d ago
It really is a nice shade of color isn't it? Gives them a sort of rough elegance in appearance.
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u/Anibus9000 5d ago
Was hashut a thing in the old world? I thought they were just chaos undivided
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u/FoxFreeze 5d ago
So yourself a favor and read up on them! The Wiki works but honestly there are PDFs of White Dwarf Presents: Chaos Dwarfs which is just the best primary source.
Hashut was in effect a minor Chaos God, tho there were rumors that he was just a khornate demon (a nod to the original khorne worshipping dwarfs) or some ascended daemonic being. He called to the Dwarfs of the East during their time of abandonment and provided them the means to preserve themselves but demanded constant sacrifice, hence the original slavery.
The new Hashut lore has a lot of great nods to the old stuff.
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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Order 5d ago
The Skaven resent that remark. They don't deny it, they just resent it.