r/AoSLore • u/sageking14 Lord Audacious • 4d ago
Question Realmwalkers! What misconceptions about the cultures of the Mortal Realms do you have that you wouldn't mind having corrected?
This is inspired by the post made by u/Caffeine_Forge just yesterday. Now of course by the nature of misconception, technically you wouldn't have it if you knew it was one. So there may be some false positives.
So for the game the idea is simple. You state something you think might be a misconception, misunderstanding, or incomplete picture on your part. Then wait for other community members to give you the details or confirm if what you know is actually true.
Take shots in the dark if you want or be bold, type a misconception you know others have that you know the correction for but fish for others to answer. Self-sacrifice for the sake of truth and knowledge!
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u/judicatorprime 4d ago
Apparently there is an idea that Sigmar is basically the same as the emperor, which leads me to believe people think COS/Stormcast map onto the same... I would like all of that corrected posthaste.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 4d ago
Sigmar is meant, at least in my opinion, to echo The Emperor and His narrative in 40k, but to do so in a way where looking at the details of the stories shows he is actually sort of the opposite of Jimmy Space
Sigmar's big turning point as a character is realizing that He has to be less hands on and trust mortals, compared to Emps who decided he need to personally conquer the galaxy and create legions of genetically-altered child soldiers brainwashed to be utterly loyal to Him, because everyone else would just screw it up.
Speaking of the astartes, The Emperor did not even seem to think of them as sentient beings, much less sons or even real humans. In contrast, Siggy chooses to call into service those He sees as embodying the best parts of humanity's soul, mortals whom He personally admires and with whom He regularly communicates on a personal basis.
The Emperor was disgusted by the failures of the other species of the galaxy, and believed that Xenos and humans could not be trusted together. Sigmar believes and constantly says that humanity can only survive by learning to coexist and work with other species whose survival is bound up with our own, even when those other species stumble or have cultures that seem diametrically opposed to His vision for the Realms.
There are tons of other examples, but I hope this helps put to bed the idea that these two distant, off-camera, empire-ruling, divine father-figures are anything alike.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
In the novel "Yndrasta: The Celestial Spear" the protagonist named Njda, a woman of the Suku, has a rough time of it being a Ghurite.
She grew up used to a reality where a relationship with gods and spirits is give-and-take where the mortals mostly give, the gods take. What examples of native spirits helping exist are tinged with the reality they are selfish, some outright malevolent.
Then she meets Yndrasta. Sigmar's most unkind soldier. Njda expects Yndrasta to be the same and Yndrasta is not the best person. But after their adventures together two things happen.
Yndrasta remembers how to be a good person. While Njda forsakes all the spirits and gods she has ever known, not because she was asked, not because Yndrasta was kind to her. But because everything she sees convinces her:
Sigmar is willing to fight for the people of the Mortal Realms. To fight not for his glorious regime and plans, nor for the sacrifices and tributes they give. But for the people.
Here is what makes Sigmar truly different from the God-Emperor. Sigmar cherishes the mortals of the Realms not due to what he can make them. But due to what they already are, what they can make themselves into.
Sigmar fights for the people of the Mortal Realms foremost. His grand ambitions are a close second but they are second.
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u/judicatorprime 4d ago
And this is exactly why Yndrasta might be my favorite AOS book ever, until another Stormcast story can top that
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u/NeverEnoughDakka Helsmiths of Hashut 3d ago
I feel like AoS isn't even grimdark like 40k, but more nobledark or whatever better term exists.
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u/Saxhleel13 Avengorii 4d ago
I think it is a very easy thing to misconstrue. Sigmar is, after all, the god-ruler of AoS's own primarily human, Chaos-hating, expansionist empire. But where the Emperor's flaws caused him to fall darkly on his path to saving humanity, creating what the franchise's own writers have called the "cruelest regime imaginable", Sigmar is a character who genuinely tries to do good by everyone he meets. The forces of the Cities of Sigmar are fighting not to dominate their known universe but to take the realms back from Chaos and bring mortal society back (even if this does mean they will occasionally assimilate the natives of the realms, want it or not).
The Stormcast, like their 40k counterparts, are Sigmar's superhuman weapons against everything that would threaten his plans. Now, Astartes have historically been treated as monstrous beings and more recently been put into a less harsh light while simultaneously acknowledging that they are the agents of a terrible, oppressive system. But the Stormcast have always been "the good guys" from concept to finish. They are the most heroic of mortal souls plucked from death and given the job of liberating the realms. These characters are not necessarily flawless, and as their consecutive reforgings (dying and resurrecting) take a toll on their minds they do tend to become less "human". But even these Stormcast are ultimately tragic figures still trying to do the best that they can for the mortal peoples under their protection.
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u/judicatorprime 4d ago
I don't think it's easy at all unless you've quite literally never interacted with AOS or Sigmar. But that's why I made the comment to begin with :') appreciate the compare and contrast!
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u/Saxhleel13 Avengorii 4d ago
Yeah, that's what I meant. 40k players coming into AoS and seeing the physical similarities.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
The closest equivalent to the Emperor in AoS I would say is not Sigmar but Nagash. An absolutely megalomaniacal egotist, hell bent on universal domination who justifies his ambitions with talks of doing what is necessary against Chaos and how he simply is the best that everyone should listen to.
And the closest equivalent to the Imperium is the Skaventide. An expansionist empire which relies on an endless horde of disposable canon-fodder whose life it doesn't even pretend to better to conquer everything and exterminate everything that's not them because they believe only they have a right to exist.
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u/eagleface5 Stormcast Eternals 4d ago
The name of Malerion's aelves is "Umbraneth."
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u/Saxhleel13 Avengorii 4d ago
Umbraneth is a popular fan name given to Malerion's faction of aelves, but from official sources we know that at least some of them are known as the "Ulgurothi" in-universe.
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u/Markond 4d ago
Wasn't originally fan give, it appeared briefly in a warcom article before being edited out.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 4d ago
Umbraneth had become a popular term fans used to speculate about Malerion's aelves well before the warcom article went up and got edited
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
That sounds believable. Would explain why it was mistakenly put on the article. The writer was under the impression it was the real name, makes sense after the Lumineth were released, or purposefully put it there to stoke flames. But then someone higher up edited it out.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
At this point I'm hoping for the faction to be called Ulgurothi but for Malerion's custom-made special aelves to be called Umbraneth.
Purely for shits and giggles.
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u/otterpopd Prime Commander 4d ago
Ulguroth is a continent in Ulgu, so Ulgurothi is probably just the denonym. Technically, we still don't know what they're called
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u/Xekato Seraphon 4d ago
I think the old Druchii corsair models have been translated to CoS-aligned privateers that are not quite as ruthless as the Black Arks of the World That Was used to be, but I really don't know for sure.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
The Scourge Privateers as mentioned in the 2E Cities of Sigmar Battletome and the novella "Heart of Winter" are descendants of corsair empires that used to exist in all Realms.
In "Heart of Winter" there is a Black Ark run about the same as one might expect of the Druchii of old but that's where things begin to fray. That was ran by a Fleetmaster who was an extremist, trying to build a new corsair empire in opposition to Sigmar.
In "Broken Realms: Morathi" a lot of Scourge side with Morathi when it comes to turning Anvilgard into a despotic polity ruled by fear, terror, bloodshed, and where many rules they followed while under Sigmar are gone. Then there is the "Price of Treason" short from WarCom showing Privateers are in the rebellion against Morathi.
So-So. There are Scourge just as ruthless as Druchii, ones no more ruthless than any other militia navy or monster hunters, some genuinely loyal to Sigmar's cause if not his beliefs. Family is also important to most Scourge cultures. In Misthavn families of Scourge run the show but there are some crews and some Fleetmasters who are just your average gaggle of weirdoes on a fishing ship.
All in all, end of the day. Scourge are as diverse and varied as Freeguilds or Dispossessed.
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u/Togetak 4d ago
Even soulbound depicts a Corsair shipmaster who’s your average rougeish “I take what I want, when I want it, and hide it from the law” pirate that’s even in league with the Blackscale Coil and helping them further their plans, having an Idoneth aboard to help his ship fly around and go unseen. It then specifically notes that when he sees the fall of anvilgard start, and what their actual end goal was, he immediately turns on his Idoneth ally, turns the ship around, and starts helping the resistance.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 4d ago
Aelven pirates culturally descended from the Druchii do still participate in various slave trades, murder, robbery, etc, but afaik you are correct that they (and their ships) are not as singularly associated with enslavement and death as they were in the World that Was. They do still wield terror as a weapon and tool, but in the context of the Mortal Realms this makes them positively amicable compared to some of the other enemies you could encounter on the seas or along the coasts
Someone with a CoS battletome or Soulbound book on hand can probably supply more details/tell me I am a fool
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u/Togetak 4d ago
For me it’s the “Seraphon are biological robots” thing that ignores how driven they are by various specific personalities (and the personalities of things like the skink priesthoods who drive their culture), and the misconception that they’re all just memories conjured by the Slann. The latter thing was implied or stated in contradictory amounts in their 2E tome, but even it was clear that’s something unreliable given it also repeatedly talks about how they seem to go back to somewhere after the Slann dismiss them, and they seem to continue to exist there rather than being summoned anew each time the Slann conjures them to the battlefield (and also talks about them harvesting the resources they use for their weapons/mounts/etc).
I’m also no Morathi defender, but I feel like there’s a huge misconception about khainites being evil or untrustworthy, and confusion over why anyone tolerates them. Prior to her ascension she spent so long embedding herself in every city of sigmar and making her cult useful to people that they’re genuinely one of the most stalwart allies in order- and people in-universe often see them that way, even if it’s less so after the fall of anvilgard. They’ll fight and die to defeat chaos, are always eager to throw themselves at it, and genuinely spend most of their time scheming against one another in their own hierarchy rather than doing things that impact the people around them.
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u/ThunderArkS5 4d ago
Lizardmen biorobot theory may actually be the most prominent misconception in Warhammer given how pervasive, yet easily debunkable it is.
Pick up any battletome and even the OG fantasy armybooks and point to the instances of a lizardman expressing an emotion. You'll find examples in all of them.
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 3d ago
It's people don't understand in the saurus and only them are biological robots. Skins are people Kroc and slann are people. Saurus unless ordered either turn into animals or will stand around defending locations forever. They do still have emotions but they are externally reserved and controlled ( what cold-blooded is ment to represent) and it takes a lot to get any kind of response.
All of this is objectively not true in aos
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u/Togetak 2d ago
Nah saurus are also still people, though their role and quirks in being willing to sit in place and await new orders means they don't really engage with things enough to feel personable like skinks do, most of the time. We still see them making their own decisions (being in charge of one of the major tabletop subfactions, after their slann was rendered comatose!), having sentimentality, making connections with others like the bonding with stormcast over killcount thing in the latest battletome etc
Kroxigor are weirdly the closest and furthest from the idea at the same time, since on the whole they're like semi-sapient, to the point they don't really have the capacity for complex thoughts or language. They're almost child-like because of that, though, so their interests and actions when not directly working under command are a lot more understandable and driven by emotions.
I guess the War-spawned are an exception, given they live purely for battle and lack the ability to do things like feed themselves, or really do anything that isn't killing, to the point that before they started spawning regularly in the Era of the Beast, they were singular oddities that singular skink caretakers would just sort of... keep, taking care of them until they inevitably died in some way or another. I guess they were sort of like the inverse of how in WHFB it's been mentioned that, rarely, they're spawned with some glimmer of intelligence equivalent to their skink peers- though such odd spawnings are usually lonely, as they still lack the physiology to speak and that noone really knows what to do with them, so they just live like their simpler kin while lamenting their ability to understand their station.
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 2d ago
Again for saurus I'm talking old world only with them bein robots. Aos they have drastically changed but for example end times with the old world we have saurus being unable to act at all in defenses of the city because the slann hasn't given them orders
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u/Togetak 2d ago
That's true, but we also see them acting in more personal capacities with characters like Kroq-Gar who do take initiative and have personal interests, it's just more of a mix in depiction
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u/Longjumping_Curve612 2d ago
Kraq gar is not normal he's a special spawning. Meaning he had more work put into him
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u/F_My_RatChud_Life 4d ago
Is Aqua Ghyranis(?) really the common currency of The Mortal Realms? I can’t imagine it would be more widespread than gold, considering people consume the former.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
Aqua Ghyranis is the universal currency of the Cities of Sigmar which have risen as one of the two powerhouse economic spheres in the places they are found, the other being Kharadron Overlords.
As such it has become widely used across Order and beyond... as one of many univerdal currencies. Gold still holds value forever as Fyreslayers will accept only it and Ur-Gold as payment, they use regular gold to decorate their cities. Kharadron have a bevy of Aether-gold backed currencies such as Mhornar Thalers mentioned in "Ghosts of Barak-Minoz".
Excelsis, a City of Sigmar, prefers Glimmerings while Lethis prefers special charms and ivory coins. Hammerhal itself has had numerous coinage like Comets, Meteors, Flaregilt, and others come up. In "Warhammer Quest: Cursed City" it is mentioned Neferata pays Jelsen Darrock in doubloons which would have to be accepted in the Free Cities. The Black Marsh Barony has torope-gold and coins made from it, torope-chaw. These and more are used across many Cities of Sigmar.
Orruks use Teef, Vampires use coinage and spiceblood and more, Chaos warbands steal gold and gems, Carngrad has market scrip, the Achromian Empire uses Achromisia, adventurers in the novels we get carry multiple different currencies.
Aqua is universal but not so much that it has stopped there being nearly a hundred named alternatives with more always mentioned.
Here's the Lexicanum article on Currency
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u/F_My_RatChud_Life 4d ago
Thank you! I just figured that it was strange there would be a universal currency, even if it was valuable. Of course different cultures and races would use different money.
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u/Togetak 4d ago
You got it mostly covered already, but gold being so widespread is part of why it isn’t used as a currency. The kharadron once tried to introduce a coinage currency to the free cities, during their infancy, but because they’re primarily from chamon (which is overflowing with minerals) they stocked absolutely vast quantities of it, and in their haste to dominate the economy basically flooded it so hard their coinage became next to worthless and the cities stopped accepting it.
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u/NovelBattle Nighthaunt 4d ago
Aqua Ghyranis is the most standardized currency of Cities of Sigmar. The thing to note would be that while currency economy exists, barter economy is still the mainstay of Cities of Sigmar. Also while it is most standardized currency, it's not the only currency.
In a universe where skilled enough mage can temporarily conjure up gold and there's a realm (Chamon) where gold is more common than wood, you can imagine why they would adopt something that's extremely difficult to counterfeit over something like gold.
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u/Expensive-Finance538 4d ago
Didn’t Balthas Aurum once stop a rebellion by turning all of a city’s gold to lead, thus cutting the funding to the mercenary army the rebels were paying?
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
The incident is mentioned in "Soul Wars", yes.
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u/Sirdinks Maggotkin of Nurgle 4d ago
Which is almost a straight rip from Balthazar Gelt's backstory back in the Old World, he likes that move lol
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
That definitely sounds like something the guy who had a bounty on his head for paying a boatman with gold that turned back into lead a few hours later would do.
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u/Togetak 4d ago
I think the implication there is the mercs we’re fyreslayers, who do take gold as their main payment for work (due to ur-gold)
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u/Expensive-Finance538 4d ago
I don’t know anything about the mercs, but gold is gold and if some schmuck just turned my entire paycheck into lead, I would leave too.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
Realmstone is very uncommon and can only be found in its respective realm (except for warpstone).
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
Relatively is perhaps the truer word here. Greywater Fastness and Hallowheart were both founded on deposits of their realm's respective Realmstone.
A century to centuries of mining has done little to stir up belief they will exhaust their veins despite these being mega-cities whose populations rival that of some countries in the Middle Ages.
So when you find a deposit, you're set for quite a while with enough to supply massive inter-realm empires. The Realm's Edges are also brimming with the stuff.
Alas I am unsure of the second part (except for Warpstone which you are correct about), so I'll leave others to answer that.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 4d ago
Regarding where Realmstone can be found, it's certainly true that each Realm's respective stone is most common in the Realm whose magic originated it. This is especially true near a Realm's perimeter inimical, where great seams of Realmstone are tantalizingly plentiful (and nearly impossible to actually mine at scale)
However, Realmstone is formed wherever raw magic is brought into contact with material reality, and the Age of Myth was full of instances where great feats of continent-shaping magic were performed by gods and wizards who mostly don't seem to have been very concerned with staying in the bounds of their "home" realms. So if there's a great desert in Aqshy where once upon a time Alarielle created a massive oasis to spread life far and wide? Most likely the land under that former oasis is honey-combed by wadis lined with cyclestone. The site of a ritual mass slaughtering of herd animals in truly ancient times in Ghur may have seen enough death that the soil under the grassland deteriorates into grave-sand. A remote magnesium-salt flat in Chamon might be littered with clumps of fulgurite-like celestium where one branch of Sigmar's Storm broke in a tempest of azyrite magic and stormcast deployments.
So, Realmstone is "rare" in that the places where large amounts of it tend to exist are basically inaccessible. The stone of one Realm can be found in other Realms, but only where great miracles, arcane natural processes, or feats of magic powered by its particular wind have taken place.
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u/FLK88 4d ago
The skaven of aos are not demons, they're a mortal race. The Verminlords however are actual demons.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 4d ago
This is correct. People get confused because the Skaven live in the Realm of Chaos and are formed from the great mass of soulstuff that the Great Horned Rat has (often through the actions of the skaven) managed to accumulate by casting countless cities, nations, and worlds into ruin. But they are very clearly mortals and have very different priorities, motivations, and narrative rules from daemons
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
This is the first time I hear about skaven being created directly by the Horned Rat rather than regular sexual reproduction.
Also a great number of them live in the Mortal Realms in warren-cities. Blight City is just their capital.
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u/HammerandSickTatBro Draichi Ganeth 4d ago
They do reproduce in the normal biological way, but ultimately the size of the population is determined by the size of the single, toxic ur-soul that each skaven individual spends their miserable life scrabbling for a larger piece of. Or at least that has been my interpretation of stuff written for AoS; I have been known to read too far into things. It makes sense to me, though, and seems to be in line with the ways that the skaven get consistently written and themed.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
Aether-gold is not a realmstone and can be found in any Realm.
There are Kharadron sky-ports in all Eight Realms.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
Aether-gold is not a Realmstone but like Aqua Ghyranis and Shadeglass is a form of/byproduct of Realmstone. Confirmed in White Dwarf November 2021's Worlds of Warhammer section.
Specifically it is the Breath of Grungni, as it is called by the Kharadron on occassion, is created whenever he engages in his great works of magical smithing. Creating worlds, sapient species, wonders untold, space stations, and more besides.
Though never outright stated it can therefore be presumed the reason for Aether-gold being in all Realms is because Grungni has labored in all of them during his time in the Pantheon of Order and other periods besides.
As for Baraks in all Realms. We see one in Shyish in "The Sea Taketh", one in Aqshy in the Soulbound Corebook, Barak-Mhornar is in Ulgu, there's a crashed one in Ghyran in "Soulbound: Artefacts of Power" if I remember correctly. So in short. Yes, that is almost certainly true.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
Aether-gold is not a Realmstone but like Aqua Ghyranis and Shadeglass is a form of/byproduct of Realmstone. Confirmed in White Dwarf November 2021's Worlds of Warhammer section.
Specifically it is the Breath of Grungni, as it is called by the Kharadron on occassion, is created whenever he engages in his great works of magical smithing. Creating worlds, sapient species, wonders untold, space stations, and more besides.
Does that mean that Grungni has an inherent connection to Realmstone (Changestone I would guess)? Do we know of any other god producing realmstone-adjacent material in this fashion?
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
Nah. I think the implication is he just uses Realmstone in his work or as fuel like other engineers. But since he's a god the bits he inhales, a common issue in smithing, is transformed while entering his deific form. So, literal Breath of Grungni. Breathe in toxic Realmstone waste, exhale a magic metaphor for fossil fuels.
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u/Fyraltari Helsmiths of Hashut 4d ago
Hmm. Interesting.
Am now wondering if that was an issue for Hashut as well. Maybe he breates warpstone these days?
I imagine other craftsgods might do the same thing but Kharadron attributes it all to Grungni because he's the main one anyway.
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u/sageking14 Lord Audacious 4d ago
Could be. It is after all an idea they are only beginning to explore in full.
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u/Saxhleel13 Avengorii 4d ago
How true is it that orruks believe the dead should be left where they lie?
I recently read a Dakkbad Grotkicker story in which his army passes through an ancient graveyard of slain monsters. They are angry that the local Avengorii have destroyed the remains, citing that in the Age of Myth Gorkamorka left his defeated foes' bodies alone, which the orruks choose to emulate out of respect.
But there are a fair amount of greenskins models which show them decked out in skeletal and fleshy bits taken off (presumably) the people they kill. Is the above tradition something that we know other orruks, or Ironjawz specifically, follow? Or is it specifically a tradition of Dakkbad's Ironsunz?