r/AoSLore • u/Stuniverse10 • 4d ago
Question Ancestor Gods
Do we know how the dwarven Ancestor Gods came about? I know they were all originally mortals but has it ever been explained how Grimnir or Valaya were elevated to become gods?
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u/Illustrious-Wrap-776 4d ago
Back in the pre-history of Warhammer Fantasy, the first of the Ancestor Gods were the first Dwarfs to be created or uplifted by the Old Ones, most likely already a cut above mortal Dwarfs. Some of their children also inherited this, but not all of them (maybe).
The Ancestor worship most likely further boosted their strength, though just with Nagash, at what point it's fair to call them Gods could be a topic of lengthy debates on its own (though more in the always of how many centuries after they retreated from mortal affairs sense).
Over time, they retreated from mortal affairs, like Grimnir going north to stem the then unending tide of Daemons coming from the broken warp gate.
Snorri Whitebeard is the oldest son of Grungni and Valaya, but usually not counted among the Ancestor Gods, instead becoming the first High King after the Ancestor Gods departed. He was good friends with Malerion, to the point that the Elf was at his deathbed and swore an oath to defend the friendship the two of them established between Dwarfs and Elves. It's basically confirmed that Malerion breaking that oath brought him back as Grombrindal, who could be counted as an Ancestor God, but he still dies as a mortal would before he ascended.
Valaya seems to have sealed herself in a vault, which is breached during the End Times, allowing Nagash to drain her of her magic (to me, it always read as if he left her severely weakened but alive, others interpret it as her being dead).
Also during the End Times, Gotrek Gurnisson takes the place of Grimnir, fighting the hordes of Daemons at their source for eternity, so Grimnir can rejoin the other Ancestor Gods.
Now for AoS, there are some passages that indicate that the Ancestor Gods and the surviving Dawrfs literally burrier themselves into the Mortal Realms. Since the Ancestor Gods most likely fully ascended very early in the WHFB timeline, they are obviously already Gods when they show up in the Mortal Realms.
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u/MrS0bek Idoneth Deepkin 4d ago
I can only speak for WFB in this regard as I do not now how AoS handles them. But dwarfs had an ancestor cult where all the ancestors of your clan were venerated. In this sense any dead dwarf is an ancestor god.
Of course the proper title is primarily used for Grugni and Grimnir, their wife Valaya, and their first gen children. Valaya is the central figure as all dawi claim descendants from here. Otherwise this lineage is important. E.g. only descendants of Grugni can become runesmiths.
Now how did they achieve godhood? WFBs prehistory is vague on purpose. IIRC it is only mentioned that Grugni, Grimnir and Valaya were the first dwarfs to awake. But dwarfs were creations of the Old Ones. And thus its easy to think that the Old Ones either created the Ancestor Gods directly, or that they picked these three from the primitive dwarfen species and uplifted them. Essentially turning them into dwarfen primarchs. It helps that the ancestor gods learned a lot in a magical place, the glittering realm, IIRC.
Still in WFB veneration and worship are powerful forces and can form gods or elevate one to godhood. All gods are essentially collective manifestations of mortals beliefs and values. E.g. Sigmar attained godhood through his worship and veneration. And given how strong dwarfen ancestor worship is, the ancestor gods who were worshipped by every dwarf could rise from Old One enhanced dawi to full deities.
But this is WFB fluff. How it behaves in AoS I dunno. Beacuse the End Times, which bridge the two, is a devasty for WFB Fans, and strongly ignored and retconned by AoS. E.g. as per End Times lore Valaya should be dead and consumed by Nagash IIRC. But in the new AoS fluff she lead an army against Hashut.