r/AskCentralAsia • u/Careful-Cap-644 USA • Nov 06 '24
Religion Is there any extant Tengriist groups in Central Asia that have continuously existed (not revival groups)
I am curious of this since it has had such a strong influence on Central Asian history. Has there been any groups that have persisted into modern times?
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Nov 07 '24 edited Nov 07 '24
No, not in Central Asia. Central Asians are usually either Muslim (including cultural Muslims who don’t practise properly) or Agnostic/Atheist. There are some pre Islamic cultural elements practised by locals but it’s hard to tell if they’re from Tengrist, Bhuddist or Zoroastrian origin because;
1) Tengrism doesn’t have a scripture so we don’t really know it that well.
2) All of these religions had extensive contact and influence over one another.
There are some practises I thought were Tengrist but turned out to be Zoroastrian or Islamic in origin, and vice versa. It’s hard to tell unless we have a proper doctrine in front of us: most of the Tengrist rituals we know of are reconstructions by comparing the culture of various Turko-Mongol ethnic groups with one another, which isn’t always a reliable method.
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u/abu_doubleu + Nov 07 '24
One example of a Tengrist tradition that still exists in Kyrgyzstan is burning juniper.
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u/themuslimguy Afghanistan Nov 07 '24
juniper
Is this "isfand"?
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Nov 07 '24
No, espand is burned from wild rue, a type of flower. Juniper is a tree or shrub which is sacred in Tengrism. Espand is burned in Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan though.
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u/Careful-Cap-644 USA Nov 09 '24
What was it believed to do?
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u/Just-Use-1058 Kyrgyzstan Nov 10 '24
The smoke is believed to cleanse from bad energy/evil spirits. People do it to this day. Can be used when you escape from something bad happening, for example. Another use of juniper: a small twig of juniper is placed under a pillow, if a person is bothered by albarsty (the sleep paralysis demon).
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u/OzymandiasKoK USA Nov 07 '24
This is a worldwide thing as religions come into existence. As another example, many of the Christian holidays and traditions are lifted wholesale from other pagan religions and customs, just re-purposed for the new stuff. Spring equinox made it into Easter, Nowruz, Holi, etc. among retained pagan traditions. If you co-opt what people are already doing, they're happier to do the new thing you're telling them, too.
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Nov 07 '24
[deleted]
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u/Mando_Mustache Nov 13 '24
Why would it not? The nations of north and south America weren't static over time. They interacted with each other, and later europeans, extensively and that including the exchange of ideas and practices.
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u/EnFulEn Sweden Nov 07 '24
My girlfriend's grandmother was actively practising tengriism from childhood up to the day she died from covid, and she's from Kyrgyzstan. There seems to be some left in very rural areas and it's hard to find.
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u/Just-Use-1058 Kyrgyzstan Nov 07 '24
Sorry about your girlfriend's grandmother. It's cool that she remembered and practiced it :) Tengrist beliefs still exist here in some form.
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u/Careful-Cap-644 USA Nov 09 '24
Do you know any of the traditions and rituals? Did it pass on to your girlfriend at all?
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u/Just-Use-1058 Kyrgyzstan Nov 07 '24
I'll repeat my comment from the Kyrgyzstan sub here. This is my personal impression and opinion of our history and culture.
Tengriism was still present even after the spread of islam. We are not very religious people and never became fully muslim, so it allowed those pre-islamic beliefs to survive.
Then with the soviet policy, while pre-islamic beliefs had more influence on our everyday life than islam, much of that was gradually abandoned and forgotten. People would forget the meaning behind certain practices even if they continued engaging with them.
Nowadays, tengriism does exist, but in a more unconscious form. You can see it in various aspects of our culture. And there are people who actively try to revive it.
I think, it would be nice to restore it. People can choose to practice it as a religion or not. We don't have to believe in different superstitions etc, now that we know the scientific explanations for things people in the past couldn't explain. It can exist as mythology too. I think it has its rightful place in our culture. It has some good philosophy behind it too, like respecting nature — that is always relevant.
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u/decimeci Kazakhstan Nov 07 '24
No there is no such group. I don't think there is clear definition of what tengriism is and how it practiced. Basically you can think of it as pagan religions of vikings, greeks and ancient romans (They are not related, they same in a sense that all of them are dead religions that are no longer practiced). Non of that exist today and only have some impact on the way religion is practiced today.
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u/Hungry_Raccoon200 Nov 07 '24
This is not exactly Tengriist per say, but a group that really fascinated me are the Baksy of Kazakhstan, who were basically Shamans of the Kazakhs pre-Islam. They still exist, although they have melted into the religion of Islam in Kazakhstan.
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u/Just-Use-1058 Kyrgyzstan Nov 07 '24
Yes! We have bakshy too. And the female shamans are called bübü - I wonder what Kazakhs call them, is it the same.
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u/Careful-Cap-644 USA Nov 07 '24
Interesting. Modern revival movements want to make something similar to the original version, correct?
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u/keenonkyrgyzstan USA Nov 07 '24
"Tengriism", if we are to speak of such a thing, couldn't survive because it isn't a formalized religion: there's no place of worship, no priestly class (beyond the shaman) or organization, no scripture and thus no canonized beliefs. It's just an academic term for a collection of rituals and beliefs shared by many Central Asian people over many centuries. All cultures change, and religions survive because there are social organizations and texts that keep them alive.
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u/Street-Big9083 Dec 01 '24
Idk if u consider mongolia as central asian but there’s still many mongolian tengrist shamans but they don’t worship “tengri” as a god, they more or less worship spirits of their ancestors, spirits of mountains and lakes and the sky, the word “sky” translates in mongolian as “tenger”.
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u/kardoen Nov 06 '24
In various peoples Tengerism is still practised, Particularly amongst Altai, Tuvans and Buryat peoples Tengerism has persisted and has been practised up until now.