r/AskEurope • u/Usagi2throwaway Spain • 2d ago
Personal How common / socially acceptable is it in your country to not respond when talked to?
I'm a contractor working on a project a European institution in Brussels. At work, sometimes I need to call out a European official because I haven’t received some information I needed, or because they didn’t do something in the way I needed it in order to carry out my role. Most of the time, I explain my problem, they apologize, and we move on. But with some people — from a certain European region (in my experience) — the conversation usually goes something like this:
Me: Hi, we agreed that you would stop doing X and start doing Y, but I’ve noticed you’re still doing X.
Them: stare off-camera with no expression whatsoever.
Me: Hello, can you hear me? Do you know what I’m referring to? I really need you to do Y instead of X, would that be possible?
Them: sit completely still and silent.
Me: (raising my voice) Hellooo, can you hear me? Is my mic working? Is the video frozen?
Them: (rolls eyes) Of course I can hear you. I don’t know why you Spaniards are always so loud, it’s irritating.
Me: Oh, great. So do you need help implementing Y? Do you want me to talk to your director general?
Them: silent, won’t look at the camera.
Sometimes this is followed by a strongly worded email from the official to my supervisor, complaining that I am “not respectful” or that I “don’t respect other people’s boundaries.” If I decide to bring up that email in our next call, the cycle repeats:
Me: Hi, it seems like there’s something about the way I work that you don’t like. Could you tell me what it is, so I can see if I can change it?
Them: stare silently without answering.
And so on, forever.
The couple times I've experienced this, it's been with people from a certain region. I mentioned it to my supervisor and they said, "oh they're like that, they avoid confrontation". But this is the exact opposite of avoiding confrontation. I was taught that there's nothing more impolite than ignoring a direct question, and I find it extremely triggering.
Is this a common communication technique where you're from, and if it is, what's the expected response to other people's lack of response?
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u/Many-Gas-9376 Finland 2d ago edited 2d ago
...come on now. Name the region please?
(It's not us, is it?)
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u/Cascadeis Sweden 2d ago
(It’s probably us.)
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u/Many-Gas-9376 Finland 2d ago
Frankly I'm not sure. When it comes to Nordics and the Finns as an extreme case, I see the social ackwardness and the silence.
But that strongly worded email from a higher-up complaining about "lack of respect" screams non-Nordic to me. We're the region where everyone up to the CEO is adressed by first name and anything else is regarded as antiquated bullshit.
I'm not aware of a region where talking plainly about problems, regardless of your or the other person's status, is as straightforward.
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u/merikettu 2d ago
I agree and
”Them: (rolls eyes) Of course I can hear you. I don’t know why you Spaniards are always so loud, it’s irritating.”
This kind of blunt comment doesn’t feel very nordic to me, i think we more like avoid provoking and confrontation especially in professional situations. Also that level of not responding sounds like passive aggressive provoking to me. I was wondering if the person is maybe an older person from some Eastern european country. They can ofc just be an individual dickhead, not representing the whole region/culture.
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u/OnkelMickwald Sweden 2d ago
”Them: (rolls eyes) Of course I can hear you. I don’t know why you Spaniards are always so loud, it’s irritating.”
This screams German or Danish to me.
A Swede would express this sentiment off camera to another Swedish colleague.
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u/Suzume_Chikahisa Portugal 1d ago
Dutch. I don't know about Danes though.
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u/Own_Yogurtcloset9133 1d ago
Doesn’t seem Dutch to me
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u/megayippie 1d ago
Seems very dutch. They like being "direct" so they ignore assholes thinking it's ok
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u/Own_Yogurtcloset9133 1d ago
No, actually we don’t ignore people when spoken to.
Dutch people aren’t direct. We are passive-aggressive and we will be direct behind your back talking about how you are such an asshole to other people.
But just staring into nothingness is not typical Dutch behaviour. We will give you an answer, just not the answer you were looking for.
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u/ComprehensiveBag4028 14h ago
Definitely not dutch.
We are kings of being direct and would never get offended by stuff like this.
To me it mostly screams Indian (the ignoring instructions part and then pretending not to hear things or pretending things don't exist)
But the (spaniards are loud) comment to me feels finnish
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u/justkeepleft 5h ago
The Dutch would tell you you in the moment you were breaching their boundaries.
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u/coeurdelejon Sweden 2d ago
This doesn't sound like us at all
Edit: I think it sounds like Germans
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u/spryfigure Germany 2d ago edited 2d ago
How so?
This passive-aggressive behavior feels very un-German to me. A German wouldn't be shy of a direct, confrontational answer.
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u/Which-Echidna-7867 Hungary 2d ago
This is 99% German. They always brag about being direct, yet they’re incredibly passive-aggressive. #NotEveryGerman of course
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u/serrated_edge321 2d ago
YES! I concur. I'd say like 90%, and they absolutely cannot handle another person being direct with them.
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u/Bubbly_City_670 1d ago
I've spent some years in Germany and can't imagine this behaviour, especially in a work situation. In fact, I find German work communication culture similar to Hungarian (in terms of directness)
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u/coeurdelejon Sweden 2d ago
It just sounds like a lot of 50+ Germans I've met. For some reason though there's a (IME) big difference between older Germans and younger Germans; younger Germans are much nicer
Austrians/Swiss could also be the answer to the 'riddle'
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u/NoPersonality1998 Slovakia 2d ago
That's also my experience from working with older germans. They very rarely tell you, they have problem with you. It doesn't matter if they are from the west or east, north or south. People from the south maybe were more direct.
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u/serrated_edge321 2d ago edited 2d ago
Exactly the opposite of my almost 10 years of experience living/working in engineering in Southern Germany. Especially ex-Bundeswehr Germans/Austrians.
At 4 different places I worked, there's a whole bunch of people who are basically like Op described, except they respond with deflections... And usually they have already been gossiping behind your back/ are ready to destroy your reputation at work (via lies) if you show any issues with their projects. In each case, I had a relatively-easy job (for me) and the person having "issues" with whatever issue I found was a team leader/project manager. Sometimes not even the person I talked to about the issue (it wasn't their work that was the problem).
I originally grew up/worked around NY-ers, Puerto Ricans, and others who are actually direct, and I've almost never encountered Germans who talk like they do -- directly discussing technical/process problems, with a focus on fixing the actual problem, not finding a human to blame. Germans/Austrians leading teams often seem obsessed with blame and uninterested in fixing project issues. I've had this happen on about half the projects I've worked on. It's exhausting.
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u/RursusSiderspector 2d ago
No, not the Germans. They are sometimes no-nonsense, but never really rude.
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u/Utstein 1d ago
More Dutch
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u/ComprehensiveBag4028 14h ago
Not even a little bit.
Dutch would be the person calling other people out in meetings. Because we're extremely matter of fact and direct.
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u/jukranpuju Finland 2d ago
Them: stare silently without answering.
Famous "1000 mark bill expression"
Confirmed, it has to be us.
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u/Many-Gas-9376 Finland 2d ago
Haha. As I noted in another comment, the blank stare I'd recognize as Finnish. But not the angry email later from the starer's boss, demanding more respect.
A Finn would just stare at you, and then leave you mystified until the end of your days.
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 1d ago
Slightly off topic, but I'm curious as to how this plays out in daily life. This silent treatment reads as toddler behaviour in Spain, and I don't mean that as an insult, but as literally something you need to teach toddlers to stop doing. For example if you're a teacher or a parent, and a child does something wrong or misbehaves, and you scold them, they are likely to purse their lips and stay silent. But in Spain for example, the adult will always say "answer me when I talk to you!", or "no one's leaving until you offer an explanation and an apology!". Don't Finnish parents do that? And if they do, what age do they go, "oh, I don't deserve apologies anymore, I'll just let them misbehave and eternally wonder if there was a reasonable explanation to their behaviour"?
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u/Many-Gas-9376 Finland 1d ago
Oh it's bad behaviour in Finland as well. With the blank stare I was really commenting in jest, and referring to the old TV sketch linked in a comment above.
My more salient comment was about the demand for respect, which doesn't sound Finnish because we're way too egalitarian and unconcerned with hierarchy for that sort of thing.
In real-life Finland, the blank stare mostly occurs if you try to chat up someone you don't know, and in a setting where a conversation isn't specifically expected. Like try to small talk some stranger on a bus stop. The "guilty" party there is a more complex thing, because small talk is not expected in Finland and arguably you're overimposing.
PS. Anyway, I still think you should just name the region. Nobody's starting a war over this, and nobody's losing in football, so what's the worst that's gonna happen?
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 1d ago
Oh I get you now, thanks for clarifying! I was feeling puzzled because other comments mentioned this as well and I was starting to think this was common behaviour. Tbh several years ago I used to travel to Helsinki for work a couple times a year and I never had an issue with my Finnish colleagues being rude. I did feel slightly uncomfortable around them at the beginning because they'd take me out for dinner and drinks and not small talk at all. I thought maybe I was making them uncomfortable with my presence, but I asked them once and they said they were always like that, so I guess they were treating me as an equal 😂
(German. It's a German lady. There was a previous instance two years ago with a Swedish official who consistently didn't reply to my questions in meetings, but it's true they never messaged my supervisor behind my back and they then reviewed my work positively, which I found puzzling. I've found some comments on this thread very informative as to why that might have been, and I'll try and adapt my communication style in the future.)
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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 1d ago
Yes, in Finland we prefer silence over nonsensical small talk. All in moderation ofcause.
The silent pause is to enjoy yourself and present a new topic if you think if something interesting
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u/dutchmangab Netherlands 2d ago
Not acceptable in professional settings like meetings. You would put yourself in a massive spotlight if you behaved like that. Your manager nearly force you to take a bunch of 'communication' trainings or something
With a different phenomenon, it has happened to me that the person I politely confronted about something that was their wrongdoing/shortcoming, then went on to complain about me. The rare few times this person was someone who have some influence/power within the organization so they weren't confronted about it and I was told to be more 'tactful' when dealing with them.
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u/team_cactus Netherlands 2d ago
Yeah, I don't understand people trying to justify this. In a professional setting, if I straight up ignored a colleague talking directly to me, I'd expect an invitation to a meeting with HR. It sounds like Mean Girls level communication (or lack thereof). And if it turns out that OP is weirdly aggressive or something, then I'd report them to HR, but the lack of acknowledgement is not how adults should be communicating in a work environment.
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u/Dertien1214 2d ago
Colleague, sure.
But consultants? They can go do it themselves. I don't take orders from civilians.
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u/copperwoods Sweden 2d ago
I could perfectly see this happening with Swedish officials. In fact, I could picture myself starring back at you in disbelief after a question like that. Definitely cultures clashing here.
In Swedish work culture the norm is to pretend that everyone does their best. If the roles were reversed, I would have formulated the question more like
“My understanding of our recent meeting was that we agreed that you would do Y instead of X. Perhaps I misunderstood something, what did you take away from that meeting?”
“It seems to me there is still a lot of X going on, do you see that too? Have you experienced any trouble with Y?”
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 2d ago
This is really enlightening, I appreciate your answer.
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u/International-Sir177 1d ago
This is how you'd have to ask the questions in Canada and the UK too, or else you'd be seen as rude and aggressive. The outcomes are very different though.
If you ask the questions like this in Canada, it builds trust and then honesty happens and a relationship forms. It's been good cultural learning for me and I enjoy communicating this way now, as it gets people to open up. If you ask them more directly, people get defensive and it's a little passive aggressive argument because they feel nervous and they don't understand each other's perspectives .
If you ask the questions like this in the UK, they agree with you but then deflect and make excuses and then nothing gets done. If you ask them more directly, people get defensive and start blaming others, and nothing gets done.
However - the idea that if you don't ask like this that they just stair at you in silence then send a shitty email is INSANE. I'm not sure what country this is but they should all go to therapy. I'm sorry they are doing this to you because I would also find that triggering.
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u/copperwoods Sweden 1d ago
OP, I’ve scrolled through this thread and I think most of the comments about Swedish work culture are about correct. Swedish work culture is extremely focused around consensus and teamwork, and it has very little of hierarchy. It has it’s upsides but definitely also it’s downsides.
The way you framed your question will come across to a person from this culture as insinuating that they are deliberately not following agreed upon instructions. Not following agreed upon instructions is essentially a deadly sin. So, asking someone a question like that to their face breaks all etiquette and can be perceived as very insulting. My guess is that the other person had no clue about how to respond and was left speechless.
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 1d ago
This whole thread has been extremely informative for me and moving forward I'll be mindful of how communication styles vary in each country.
I remember when I first started working with Americans and I had to be reminded to compliment them at every step ("you met the deadline, that's awesome! I'm so excited to move ahead to the next stage! You're such a wonderful team!") – it didn't come naturally at the beginning, but I got used to it and it really smoothed my relationship with users. I'll see if my newly learned skills work as well with Swedish users :)
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u/PoetryAnnual74 1d ago edited 1d ago
Different communications over culture is super interesting. I remember as a Swede I worked with some people from Spain at some point and the sound Swedes make when we agree to something the Spaniards understood as “what?” So I would constantly get in situations where I agreed to something and the Spaniard would repeat themselves and I would in my head be just like err I just agreed with something you said why do you keep repeating yourself… 😅 and in some of those cases after the Spaniard had repeated themselves three times and me having no idea why that was happening I was probably just starting quietly at them afraid to trigger something to make them repeat themselves again
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 1d ago
This!! I spent a short while in Stockholm as a student and that little gasping sound you make to show attention had me puzzled! Me, I used to interpret it as a sound of disbelief and I spent about half of every conversation saying, "but it really happened, I swear!" 😅
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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 1d ago
Another finn can step in if I am wrong, but i personally think this does not extend to us atleast to that degree.
Afaik we do have a more "straight to the point" and "call shit out like it is" reputation amongst nordics. I again personally feel like (southern) Italians especially try to worm themselves away from their agreed upon responsibilities.
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u/Impossible-Strike-73 1d ago
I have never experienced a silent, non-responsive person in Sweden nor can I picture the boss calling efficiency "not respectful".
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u/-Copenhagen 2d ago
This is one of several reasons I so dislike working with Swedes.
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u/acke Sweden 1d ago
Come on, don’t leave us hanging. What are the others?
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u/BeardedBaldMan -> 1d ago
Collaboration is weaponised to avoid taking any responsibility. Any failure is automatically the non-swede fault as they aren't part of the consensus driven collaboration bubble.
We joked about hiring sacrificial foreigners to assign to projects so we could publicly drop them
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u/DangerousWay3647 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have experienced the weaponized collaboration a lot with Swedes, too! It's like every roadblock, failure or issue is a group issue and can never be attributed to any specific subtask or person. Of course high-blame work cultures are not great either, but sometimes it's really helpful to just name the issue. "We" didn't fail to accomplish the goal of this project, 99% of the work was done well, effing Elina just never did her work which messed everything up.
It works the other way, too, that every accomplishment is entirely a group accomplishment, which I think really doesn't incentivize excellent performance. I've had group memebers in a 2 year project suggest that no one's role in the project should be named or labelled 'publicly' (i.e. outside of our immediate team and the teams we collaborated with) since it all was anyways a group effort. I was the lead for the core sub-team and was so pissed they wanted to pretend to the entire rest of the company that we all did equally complex and advanced work. Everybody's contribution was important, but obviously the level of skill and involvement differed. Luckily the main team lead shot that down quickly (he wasn't Swedish 😅)
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u/-Copenhagen 1d ago
This exactly.
And the whole consensual decision making process in itself drives me nuts!
Having to discuss everything forever until everyone agrees, but by then all prerequisites have obviously changed and we have to do it again.
Nothing gets done because everyone is afraid to make a decision.It is maddening!
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u/Evening-Gur5087 2d ago
Such a sassy teenage girl angst vibes:D
'O-M-G how dare he talk to me like that, giiiiirl, like, whateeevah'
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u/Four_beastlings in 1d ago
I attribute the "omg so disrespectful how dare you" attitude more to middle aged men
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u/DangerousWay3647 2d ago
I think that sounds insane for every country I've been to. I've probably worked with people from every EU country and never experienced such a thing if we're having a conversation in good faith. The only moment I could see this happening is as a "last resort" if you've had the same conversation a dozen times and the other person just doesn't get you won't do what they want or whatever, so you just stop responding. Or if someone is incredibly rude, interrupting you constant or belittling you, you basically decide: hey, you're apparently so great and don't even need my input then fucking do it without me. Either OP works with an extremely strange subset of people or maybe there's some strange context and possibly OP unintentionally does come across very forward or pushy to them
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 2d ago
OP unintentionally does come across very forward or pushy to them
I've thought about this. I'm an outsider telling rather senior officials what they need to do and giving them deadlines. I'm completely clueless as to what their job is outside of this project. This isn't a problem with most of them – I'm what you'd call a social butterfly, I take the time to build a relationship with the users, and I consistently receive very positive appraisals from them. But there's been this non-response issue with a couple of them, and because my supervisor was convinced it was a cultural thing, I thought I'd ask here.
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u/Prestigious-Monk-191 Netherlands 2d ago
I'm an outsider telling rather senior officials what they need to do and giving them deadlines
When I read your question, my first thought was: the people you're talking about outrank you. Don't underestimate the importance of hierarchy.
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u/team_cactus Netherlands 2d ago
Even in the more hierarchical places I've worked in, it would never be acceptable to straight up ignore someone speaking to you in a professional setting. They can be polite and say they'll take it into consideration, or direct and say that's not up to OP to decide, but not responding at all is bizarre.
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u/Prestigious-Monk-191 Netherlands 2d ago
Even in the more hierarchical places I've worked in, it would never be acceptable to straight up ignore someone speaking to you in a professional setting.
I don't disagree with that, but I'm not sure whether they're actually ignoring or whether they're holding back because they know better than to say what they really want to say. I've always worked in hierarchical governmental organisations and some of the senior officials I worked for would definitely have flipped out if I started a conversation in the way OP describes. Most of those officials have long retired and are now in their eighties, but some of the current officials really value hierarchy (and won't have someone below them tell them what to do).
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u/JjigaeBudae Ireland 2d ago
Yeah depending on how senior the person they're dealing with is this could absolutely be stunned silence of a "Is this mother fucker really talking to me like this?" nature. I've definitely had people say something to me in a professional setting where I've had to take a beat to consider my response.
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u/DangerousWay3647 2d ago
Well, I think no one can tell you if it's cultural if you don't tell us where they are from. I will say that obviously the general demeanour of many people from the Mediterranean comes across as very animated and sometimes very forward or 'too much' to some other Europeans. It might be a question of tone of voice and intonation, volume, gestures etc. that translate as pushy and even confrontational to this culture.
I have worked in a minor capacity with some of the EU administration in Bruxelles and have to say that if your meetings 'sometimes' (i.e. more than once?) lead to the officials complaining with your boss through official channels, your behaviour must be perceived as quite extreme. Especially if these officials are from countries where the culture seems to be conflict averse, as your boss implied, it would probably take a lot for them to directly complain to your superior.
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u/PinkSeaBird Portugal 2d ago
I don't get it why they whisper, are they ASMR artists? Are babies asleep next room? Just speak up, language exists to be used.
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u/PinkSeaBird Portugal 2d ago
This makes no sense. Why can't they just say "oh yeah sorry I am in x projects or have x amount of work and totally forgot that task. I will put it on my schedule and do it as soon as I can"
You know, like a normal person.
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u/Rejowid in 2d ago
A lot of comments mentioned Finland and Sweden and I think silence does point in that way – however in my opinion the Finnish and Swedish silence is very different. I'm Polish and I've been living in Finland for almost 5 years now.
Each language/culture expects different gaps in conversation to join in. The Mediterranean gap is quite small. The gap required in Finland is massive. It's okay to stand silent for 5 seconds before the other person says their bit, ESPECIALLY in less familiar and more professional setting. You literally just need to wait. This can be very frustrating to a person coming from a culture with more rapid timing, however not giving this space and time to the other person can seem very aggressive and make the other person feel stressed out, because they feel they didn't have time to answer and are constantly interrupted (even though you are not physically interrupting what they're saying). Just take it waaaaay slower. Being too "friendly" in Finland can also come of as fake and mean especially if you are talking about something they didn't do.
Silence in general is also more acceptable in social interactios, however probably not in a 1-1 zoom call. I must say I often feel very disrespected by my neighbours not saying "Hei" to me in my building, but I learnt that this is just the way it is here. To put it into perspective – when my grandpa decided that his neighbour offended him to a degree that cannot be forgiven, he stopped saying good morning to her and that was his way of expressing that she basically stopped existing to him. That's kinda how I feel when it happens, but I know they don't mean it.
However the Swedish culture is very different and very very focused on politeness, small talk, smile and pleasantness. I think the adjective pleasant is key here – it's not really about being friendly and social, you should be waaaaay more low-key and mellow down a lot, but still very polite and nice.
And I agree with the other person saying that basically you must completely reframe your questions and not be so direct, because it can be seen as really aggressive and hostile, blaming them even though from your perspective you are just trying to solve a problem. Avoid being in a position of controlling, managing or reminding them about something. I was told to not end emails with "Thank you for your help" because this can be already seen as if I was expecting an answer and help before I received it, basically being demanding.
Frame things more as trying to be helpful, try to move the blame to external circumstances, try to show how maybe this is some other problem, do not make them feel like they are in the wrong or causing trouble – "Is there any way I can help?", "Maybe there was a miscommunication?", "Is everything alright? Someone else had Z kind of problem.", "Maybe it's a mistake on my side / on the systems side, but...".
I wouldn't expect to actually learn what the real problem is. It's possible that in the meeting when you agreed to this (if there was no meeting to agree on things that's already a big no no) they already were against it but didn't voice their opposition. Just pray they do it eventually, or if nothing works – get some higher force to make them do it.
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u/VirtualMatter2 Germany 1d ago
There seems to be an overlap of people who are autistic and people who are Finnish. Curious....
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u/Old-Importance18 1d ago
I am Spanish and I cannot understand what is wrong with "Thank you for your help".
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u/BunnyKusanin Russia 1d ago
If the actual help hasn't happened yet, and you're just asking for something and finishing the email with this, it can be seen by some people as you pushing them to do the said thing. If they have already helped, than I personally think it very nice to thank them.
In Russia we have a phrase: "Thanks in advance" that some people use to finish off a written request. Sometimes they actually assume that what they asked for will happen. Sometimes they just add it without thinking much about it because it's the first thing that comes to their mind. But there is also an option that it's bad taste to say "Thanks in advance" because it's sort of... idk, rude? manipulative? I personally don't care too much about it, but I guess some people do.
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u/Old-Importance18 1d ago
I guess it's a cultural thing, but I don't see anything wrong with "Thanks in advance" either.
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u/Diipadaapa1 Finland 1d ago
One key thing in the Nordics when you ask a question, especially feedback, is to wait for what feels like ridicolously long time. It will feel reallt awkward at first, but you get used to it.
My rule of thumb is to slowly count to 5 while looking around, then start gathering papers/do some small mundane task for another 10 seconds. Don't break the silence with a single word. Usually one person will speak up, and from there it starts rolling. You need to give us the time to think of and formulate the question.
If no comment is given after those 15 seconds or so, you can continue with the generic closing speach.
If it feels too tense in the beginning, just jokingly lead the tequest for questions as "I've heard that in the Nordics you have to wait 20 seconds to get the first question, so lets try it out".
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u/Essiggurkerl Austria 2d ago
No, not in my country, I'm now curious about that region. If this wasn't AskEurope I would have guessed East Asia
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u/BunnyKusanin Russia 2d ago
I think if it's a part of Europe and he was told people there avoid confrontation, it could be Britain.
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u/milly_nz NZ living in 2d ago edited 2d ago
Nah. Brits might evade direct questions but they’d not just fail to answer….they’d wait a beat and then provide an answer that’s not at all reflecting what they actually feel, of that’s as vague and annoying as OP’s refusal to identify “the region”.
Every other nation doesn’t behave like that except the French or…Russians.
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u/zeviea United Kingdom 2d ago edited 2d ago
You're right, British people can evade confrontation but do it in an ostensibly "polite" way. If I'm honest I've never met people from a country as rude as what OP mentioned, especially saying "You Spaniards". Not just rude but bizarre too. It was infuriating. I wonder if that region has just a bad team.
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u/HighlandsBen Scotland 1d ago
There aren't many upsides to Brexit, but not being implicated in this situation as the difficult weirdos in the room is surely one!
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 16h ago
Lol. Actually, you'd be surprised how many EU officials I've worked with in the last couple years were British! In many institutions you don't need to be an EU national to get the job. I've worked with people from Asia and South America too!
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u/macnfly23 2d ago
You've made me extremely curious to know what region/country this is now as I've never heard of someone just ignoring direct questions like that. I don't think anyone would be offended if you mentioned it as maybe it's just a cultural thing. I'm guessing it might be Denmark?
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u/Herranee 2d ago edited 2d ago
From the other side of the screen I could see the convo going like this:
OP: hey so you guys aren't doing the thing you were supposed to be doing?
Other guy: (wait what? if that's what you want to talk about why didn't you specify that on the invite? i need to search my emails and see if I can find anything...)
OP: hey can you hear me? why aren't you doing the thing?
Other guy: (found one email and trying to read it to see if there's any info that's been missed)
OP: hey hello are you there???? hello??
Other guy: yeah of course I can hear you im trying to look up some info (if you'd just shut up and give me a fucking minute)
OP: so do I need to talk to your boss about this or what?
The staring off camera and not giving immediate answers* would be very typical for this type of scenarios imho.
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u/Beautiful_Resolve_63 . -> 1d ago
Yeah, I would be flabbergasted by that. I would assume their trying to trap me and being unprofessional. I wouldn't feel safe talking to them moving forward without me and a manager being on the same side that they are "difficult".
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u/duanerenaud France 2d ago edited 1d ago
It seems the person is playing it passive agressive with you for two reasons :
a) you may come off as pushy in your request of people doing a certain Y instead of X. Maybe word it differently, propose how you could help doing Y right after you've established the facts that it hasn't been implemented, and don't linger on the "why ?". Confrontational attitude does not always work ("please justify yourself"), especially with senior officials who probably have inflated egos and think they don't need or have to report to you.
b) the tone and volume of your voice. It's not your fault, but even to us the French, Spaniards do sound alarmingly loud even in casual conversations. Maybe try to lower your voice a bit, or lower the volume on your mic ? Maybe written communications would work better with those individuals.
It is still rude for someone not answering you in a professional setting, but if that person's sensibilities are a challenge to overcome, yet you need them to cooperate to reach a certain milestone, you've got to adapt and play it a different way.
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u/Creepy_Assistant7517 1d ago
Come on, you gotta tell us! Else every post will be: Who was it? I bet it was [neighbouring country] ... they are such passiv-agressive weirdos ... please let it be [neighbouring country] and not [commenters country]
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u/ThePugnax Norway 2d ago
Seems really weird to me, id probably ignore you if i walked past you on the street and said something to me. But your talking about a professional setting.
Seems to me like YOU need to send an email about them not willing to engange in productive conversation and not answering neccesary inquieries about key points on the project and thus hindering/holding it back.
And if they say they wont do X, but continue to do X. You should start to follow this up with emails veryfing they will stop doing X. Paper trails. Im also guessing there is a contract there that can be enforced.
Im typical Nordic when it comes to conversing with strangers, but that flips in a professional setting, there we need to communicate and have a dialog.
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u/VirtualMatter2 Germany 1d ago
I can't answer your question, but that's exactly what my mother does, and she's a malignant narcissist.
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u/OJK_postaukset Finland 2d ago
I mean to me such behaviour is disrespectful.
When asking something, it’s damn annoying if you don’t get an answer. But I can admit, I sometimes just don’t answer either.
In my case it usually means that I was asked a stupid / annoying / obvious question or just a question I did not want to answer to. By ignoring it I need to use the least words and everyone can carry on with their day. If I answered ”not gonna answer” or such, then it might lead to further questioning. And sometimes answering properly is just not interesting enough. Sometimes I do answer, but extremely stupidly (and sarcastically). Basically does the same thing as ignoring. People understand I don’t want to answer
And yes, I notice other people also ignoring my questions. If I know they heard me, I often just say ”thank you” and carry on with my day:D annoying, but not that uncommon
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u/witchmedium 2d ago
For me, (also since your description is abstract, without details) this sounds like you are asking them to do something that is not part of their job description, or something they are not allowed to do.
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u/elektrolu_ Spain 2d ago
Then why not answer "that's not my job"? Remaining silent sounds totally alien to me
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u/witchmedium 2d ago
Could just be cultural differences, if it is with people from the same region again and again. Directly addressing things/problems is not practiced the same everywhere.
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u/elektrolu_ Spain 2d ago
It's because cultural differences for sure but what are they going to achieve just remaining silent?
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u/witchmedium 2d ago
They are propably waiting for you to adapt and are getting annoyed that you are not accommodating to their cultural norms, hence the emails. You want something from them, so you should try to do better, more of the same seems to do nothing?
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u/elektrolu_ Spain 2d ago
Honestly, it sounds like a really poor approach in a professional environment. It would be much more efficient explaining what the problem is instead of leave the other person guessing what's wrong
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 2d ago
Historically, I find that you don't fight a lack of assertiveness with even less assertiveness.
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u/PauloPatricio Portugal 2d ago
Not a cultural or social problem, maybe an hierarchical one. The person that you interact doesn’t know or can’t answer individually, so the best thing to do it’s cut with online meetings and send an e-mail and wait for the formal/official answer.
I bet that in a meeting, if you ask “did you saw my email!”, they will say “yes”, and if you ask “so what’s the reply?”, they will say “we are looking at it and reply in x days”.
But! You are right in one thing, they should at least say that they don’t have the power or are in the position to answer your questions. That’s the odd bit, and it’s related to the person inability and total lack of professionalism to say “listen, I’m not in charge, so I can’t answer you”.
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 2d ago
I'm sorry that I have to keep it vague for NDA reasons, but the latest instance was about a person who's the only one in their department who didn't do The Thing, and refused to do The Thing, while, as far as we knew, was totally capable of doing The Thing. Yesterday I asked them if they thought The Thing wasn't necessary for the department, or maybe they had a suggestion on a different way to implement The Thing, and they just replied, "no, everything's fine". I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure they haven't implemented it yet.
I agree it might be a hierarchy issue because this person is in a senior position and maybe didn't appreciate having to follow orders from someone they might have perceived as younger and less experienced?
There were other comments about how other cultures frame questions in a different way that I found very interesting and I'll try that in the future. But at the same time it's like that "this could've been an email" meme – what's the point of phrasing something in twenty words when five are enough?
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u/PauloPatricio Portugal 2d ago
I totally understand, I also prefer five words, but occasionally I have to type other 15, just because.
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u/PinkSeaBird Portugal 2d ago
Not part of their job description? Who even remembers their job description?
Jesus, I don't get it why we let this people rule Europe... I thought they were supposed to be efficient and better than us down south
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u/booksandmints Wales 2d ago
That would be really abnormal in Wales. For us that would be beyond rude and considered deeply unprofessional!
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u/Suburbanturnip Australia 1d ago
I think they are Finnish, and you just needed to give them 5-10 seconds to contemplate an answer.
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u/olagorie Germany 1d ago
Well, as a German, I would say that this isn’t typical, but I might see it in someone who is of the older generation (damn I just realised that probably very soon I will count as such).
But I think that this specific person probably has a problematic personality independent from their nationality. And maybe paired with a xenophobic attitude because the Spanish people are loud comment (spoken out loud in a professional setting) is extremely rude and unprofessional.
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u/LabMermaid Ireland 2d ago
Behaving like that is not in any way common or socially acceptable - it would be seen as very disrespectful and ill-mannered.
Withholding information and refusing to communicate, once it occurs more than once, would be considered workplace bullying - obstruction of your ability to do your work.
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u/Malthesse Sweden 2d ago
I'm guessing that the offenders might be us Nordics, since we are a bit socially awkward and very self-reliant and independent minded. We also oftentimes find Mediterraneans a bit too loud and intrusive for our taste. There's just a really big cultural difference.
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u/pr1ncezzBea in 2d ago
Posting such an interesting story without any actual revelation of that region? Very annoying. I think it somehow shows that the problem lies within your communication - I mean on your side.
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u/serrated_edge321 2d ago
Why do Germans jump to blaming people so quickly?
It's so annoying.
You didn't even offer any useful feedback. Op was probably trying to avoid people just repeating words from long-held stereotypes versus sharing actual, personal experiences from their everyday jobs.
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u/H_nography 1d ago
The default German answer to anything is to blame the individual as having done something wrong, especially on reddit. It's sometimes so exhausting.
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u/FoxyOctopus Denmark 2d ago
I have some Eastern European friends of mine that do this sometimes but usually it's because they find whatever you said to be so stupid it doesn't deserve a response. I think it might be quite common in some places in Eastern Europe that you're supposed to take the way they stare or don't stare at you as their response.
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u/H_nography 1d ago
I mean, it depends on setting and what part of Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe proper (not the Balkans), it is a feature of certain languages that silence is an answer. In the Balkans people sound more friendly when communicating and in general use more emotion and would not have found OP as a Spaniard to be very tonally different from them.
I would have wagered this to be a Russian if a friend told me this story, but considering the tattle-telling (looked down upon in Russian culture) and that it's a Brussels job, I'd say that's out.
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u/BunnyKusanin Russia 1d ago
OP's boss also called those people conflict avoidant, which Russians certainly aren't.
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u/BunnyKusanin Russia 1d ago
In Russia this kind of silence in response to complete nonsense would come with staring at the person, not away from them. We don't pretend to not hear the other person in these cases, it's more of showing you're speechless because of how dumb it is whatever they've said, or because they've been so inappropriate that you don't want to stoop to their level, but there are absolutely no polite words to respond. Like, I highly doubt someone would feel ignored if it was a Russian being silent at them. OP would be complaining that those colleagues look at him with disgust or something.
But, honestly, I don't think Russians would find his behaviour shocking enough to do this. I'd be inclined to say quite a few things instead if I was on the other end of that conversation.
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u/RursusSiderspector 2d ago
In Sweden it is considered rude unless you look threatening in some way. Yet it happens sometimes.
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u/KingAmongstDummies 1d ago
I've never experienced this nor do I know anyone that did.
I lived in the Netherlands all my life but also worked in Germany and England and I've never seen or heard about it there either. It definitely is weird, uncommon(if existent at all) and not socially acceptable.
Doing something like that would end you up in a room chatting with your manager.
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u/kerrybom Croatia 1d ago
So you got your answer. This isn't common anywhere in Europe, so the correlation to a specific European region isn't something to draw conclusions from.
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u/nadandocomgolfinhos 1d ago
Sometimes things are cultural so it’s a valid question. It’s so hard to know and I agonize- is it culture? Are they an asshole? Am I breaking a cultural norm I don’t know about and I’m the asshole?
Having people to ask is such a gift.
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u/kerrybom Croatia 1d ago
And people answered. Literally no one said "Yep, that's people from my country." So it can't be cultural.
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u/urtcheese United Kingdom 2d ago
OP: why are these people so rude?
Also OP: Me: (raising my voice) Hellooo, can you hear me? Is my mic working? Is the video frozen?
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 1d ago
Yeah, maybe it's just me but it sounds like OP was a bit pushy and forward.
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u/urtcheese United Kingdom 1d ago
Yep I get the idea OP made a terrible first impression by getting shouty on a call, now the people they are dealing with choose to ignore them rather than reacting to it.
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 16h ago
But I honestly thought it was a technical issue, since they also didn't move. I sincerely believed the call was down. This was a panicked response to what I thought was my PC being faulty.
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u/Organic-Ad6439 Guadeloupe/ France/ England 1d ago
I can’t see this as being socially acceptable in France (definitely not in the Caribbean lol, relatives will tell me off) or the UK unless you’ve got a disability/condition that makes it hard for you to be social.
Even if you have that, I don’t think that they’ll care to the point of deeming that behaviour as being acceptable (not in France at least, they don’t seem to care about that for me, even in contexts where me speaking isn’t necessary for the meeting or social event).
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u/Against_All_Advice Ireland 1d ago
Absolutely not common here anyway. That's the absolute height of rudeness.
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u/PanicAdmin 4h ago
I understand you are a contractor so you need to be quite "strategical" in your communication, but the nordics autism is unacceptable and inefficient in this context.
Write emails, especially meeting reports, they really helps in these cases.
And as we Romans say, "digli di si e dagli da bere", that means "tell them yes and give them something to drink", meaning be accondiscendent and treat them like children, then move silently.
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u/BunnyKusanin Russia 2d ago
Is it Brits who you can't talk to normally? It doesn't actually matter, I'm just curious.
I'm Russian and we don't avoid confrontation there, but I think you might be lacking tact in the way you phrase your initial questions to them. Russians are known for being direct, but we actually also have lots of polite words and ways to phrase things too. I'm sure there will be some in your language too, and there are plenty of these in English. Don't start your call with telling people they're doing something wrong and asking why. If you do this, anyone's gonna be hostile to you. Why are you even telling them they're doing something wrong? Are you their manager? Are you some sort of an inspector? If yes, follow the proper process for this. If no, it's not your place to tell your colleagues how to work. Ask them politely to do it. Politely tell them you need something from them. Politely remind them you still need this from them if they're late on delivering it. "Hi, our project got stalled because Y hasn't happened yet. Have there been some challenges with it? Can I help you in any way? When do you think you can make it happen?" If they don't respond to patient and polite requests, go to the management to sort this out.
Also, if I went to your manager about your behaviour it would mean that this issue is beyond talking it out with you. And I would complain again after the question. Just ask the manager for recommendations on a better communication style.
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u/AlfonsoTheClown United Kingdom 2d ago
Doubt it’s us, not only would it be extremely rude to ignore a person like this but also it’s just bizarre. This is a really weird and awkward way to behave
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u/ChoicePhilosopher430 2d ago
I'm with you on this one. I don't believe it's Eastern Europeans, because we love a good confrontation and we will fight back, no matter the hierarchy or the job description. We are usually too direct for them, but at least we speak back, don't stare at the camera.
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u/Fine-Marketing-8134 2d ago
I'm all in on the Dutch. I don't know why. Either that or something Nordic. OP, am I right?
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u/stefandjnl 1d ago
Us Dutchies don't do silence. We'll just tell you we're sorry or tell you to shut up. Straight and direct.
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u/Many-Gas-9376 Finland 1d ago
I don't see the part where the other person's boss comes back with an angry email, demanding more respect, happening in a Nordic country. It sounds completely alien: we don't give a fuck about that kind of hierarchy. We may not like you, but you're allowed to speak.
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u/H_nography 1d ago
Dutch or Swiss?
No offense to anyone else, but the rudest people I have seen are from either one or the other.
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u/Kokiri_villager 1d ago
Sounds like an ego/pride problem on their part.. They have decided you're unpleasant for telling them they're bad. How old are these people? If it's not pride, it's often seen in young people who seem to be beyond fragile these days, and can't take any criticism without malfunctioning..
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u/PinkSeaBird Portugal 2d ago
Its Germans right?
I mean thats a bizarre behavior even for Germans tbh. It is just plain racist. You could just reply "we can be loud but at least we didn't start two ww and murder 6 million jews because we were butt hurt about some lands we lost".
Though this would depend on a few things like how much you need the job and how much power you vs the other idiot have. Lol
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u/AbbreviationsOld2507 2d ago
I would consider that normal behaviour if someone starts getting bossy .
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u/Usagi2throwaway Spain 2d ago
What do you consider to be bossy behaviour? You were assigned a task with a deadline, somebody else is waiting on you to finish the task, and they ask you, point blank, with no sarcasm, big smile, how come the deadline wasn't met. Is that bossy?
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u/Simple_Exchange_9829 2d ago
Just my little rant on the topic. First of all: Not answering or ignoring someone is disrespectful no-go I’ve never heard of in Germany. Normally you get a straight answer - you may not like it, but you get it.
In Germany it could be an issue about the honesty or dishonesty of the smile. The first one is fine, the second one is not. A big dishonest smile can be a sign of mocking when talking about serious matters. I would be taken aback, too, if someone asked me with a wide grin why my deadline wasn’t met. "It’s not funny, what’s the angle here. There’s a difference between the friendly "You are not in trouble, I just want to know what’s going on"-face and a wide (dishonest) smile.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 1d ago
It's overly direct for some cultures, yes. Especially if you're not their boss.
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u/Simple_Exchange_9829 2d ago
That’s highly confrontational and disrespectful in my culture and a reason to get someone fired if it happens more than once during work.
You’re from Eastern Europe, aren’t you?
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u/ksmigrod Poland 18h ago
Not common/acceptable in professional setting.
Outside of professional setting, the more rude your interlocutor, the more acceptable it is to ignore him/her.
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u/serverhorror Austria 2d ago edited 1d ago
You need to tell us which region, or will you just stare off camera and wait?