r/AskEurope 1d ago

Politics What’s a politician or party from your country that you agree with some statements of theirs, but other statements or theirs you disagree with so strongly that you will never vote for or support them?

And why?

29 Upvotes

128 comments sorted by

64

u/kodos_der_henker Austria 1d ago

Communist, would love to vote them for all terms workers rights, housing and social equity but their stance on Russia makes it a no-go.

7

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

They are pro Russia?

26

u/kodos_der_henker Austria 1d ago

Most of them, at least on federal level (regional ones are very different) simply because they are anti american and coming from an enemy of my enemy stance

7

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago edited 1d ago

Honestly doesn’t surprise me, extremists in general have some insane levels of mental gymnastics in order to justify being against what they hate, we have something similar in France with lutte ouvrière à communist party who claims being against war in general so her genius mind came up with condemning Russia for the war but stop all arms shipments to Ukraine cuz it’s “against peace” or whatever, à real shit show

7

u/kodos_der_henker Austria 1d ago

Well there are real pacifist around, but you can make out pretty fast if someone just uses excuses to support Russia or is really against war in general

Given that also our Social Democrats have their fair share of tankies it leaves the Greens as the only left leaning party without that problem

-1

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

An environment party? Oof usually those don’t work out too well in elections…good luck for ur country g there gonna need it

5

u/serverhorror Austria 1d ago

They were in the government for the last two cycles.

good luck for ur country g there gonna need it

See, now that makes you sound like one of those extremists you were mentioning earlier.

1

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Bro Im just saying that if the only party in the left that is not pro Russia is a green one who historically don’t do well in elections is not a great situation to be in bro, I mean unless ur pro Russia I don’t think what I said is extremist Im just disappointed that there isn’t much choice in the Austrian left if u don’t want a pro Russia left party.

I mean unless the Austrian “green” party isnt a environmentalist one then I was wrong, ussually parties named green are environmentalists

4

u/TarcFalastur United Kingdom 14h ago

During the Cold War, Soviet intelligence groups invested heavily in infiltrating western socialist groups (in some cases it obviously didn't take much effort). Once in, they worked hard to manipulate their members - especially the ones who were pacifists.

They targeted these people in particular and indoctrinated them with the belief that Russia only does what it does because the West forces it to - the exact same story Russia still continues to use. But beyond that, they indoctrinated them to believe that the only way that world peace can ever be achieved is by the West unilaterally backing down from Russia and disarming its nuclear weapons. The story was that Russia would gladly agree to stop acting aggressively and would also disarm, but only if the West did it first as a sign of good faith.

Even though the USSR fell long ago and the Soviet propagandists withdrew, there are reports suggesting that the indoctrination remains. They continue to be convinced that, regardless of its politics, Russia has a political culture of being an international victim - they are the bullied child who hits other kids as a defensive mechanism because they learned that other kids only stop hitting them if they make themselves look tough. And they continue to believe that the only way to make Russia calm down is for the West to stand off and give them space so they feel safe enough to stop acting tough.

It's not mental gymnastics, it's what they've been programmed to believe.

2

u/perplexedtv in 22h ago

Now that Russia and the US are best buddies has their stance not changed?

7

u/Altruistic-Mine-1848 1d ago

It's funny how similar this is across countries. They're so blatantly pro-Russia I suspect they're being directly financed by them. Completely incapable of saying one thing against Russia, even when it's obvious, merely deflecting the question when there's no other choice. In Portugal, they're down to 3 seats in parliament, their lowest ever.

9

u/kodos_der_henker Austria 1d ago

Doubt that they are directly financed by them, unlike the far right, and I rate unpaid pro Russians more dangerous than the paid ones, but it is still strange how an anti imperialist stance fails to include Russia and China (same as anti religious often not includes Islam)

4

u/Altruistic-Mine-1848 1d ago

I'm pretty sure Russia is financing both far right and far left parties all over. Whether this or that specific party, I don't know. But the Portuguese communist party sounds actually compromised, you couldn't get one bad word for Russia out of them. You could ask them about specific examples of war crimes, equivalent to Israel's that they criticized strongly and all they'll say is "we're for peace, Russia and Ukraine need to sit down and negotiate". It's like they have a handicap - Instruction 1: never criticize Russia. It's too intellectually dishonest.

2

u/kodos_der_henker Austria 23h ago

In a general sense for sure, they finance extreme positions to split society and prevent a unified and strong EU (and the US is doing the same)

I specifically meant Austria here

1

u/Apolinario13 Portugal 22h ago

The Portuguese Communist party criticizes Ukraine and its neo-Nazi battalions and the massacres they committed from 2014, they remain silent on war crimes from the Russian invasion, but they do criticize the Russian gov has a capitalist and oligarchic gov.
Source https://www.pcp.pt/ucrania
Now they are not wrong in one point, this is a US vs RU thing where the EU is doing nothing besides losing is social state and we should not intervene. Because if the war is going for this long is because of things like:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/08/29/germany-military-nato-trump-putin-00509732
And all for what, a NATO promise that will never be fulfilled?

1

u/thanatica Netherlands 20h ago

Communism does come with some positive points, but the problem is always how they want to implement it - in a horrible dystopian tsarist murderous dictatorship.

That last bit is something I hope most people would not fully agree with.

49

u/userrr3 Austria 1d ago

The neoliberal party Neos has (for me personally) the best takes on Austrian foreign policy and neutrality (as in, they seem to be the only party even considering the notion of joining nato and abolishing the idea that neutrality is a good defense, which is close to political suicide here). However, their domestic policies are so bad for the average person and only aim to improve lives of the rich and super rich. The next closest choice in terms of foreign policy is the green party funnily enough, and while there's enough to criticise them for, I wouldn't regret voting for them in the grand scheme of things

23

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Sounds like a typical neoliberal to me, in France it’s the same with macron lol, dude has excellent foreign diplomacy but domestic dude is absolutely hated

13

u/agrammatic Cypriot in Germany 1d ago

Politics in Cyprus are so depoliticised that the question barely makes sense. The two main parties are big-tent parties to begin with, and the minor parties are vehicles for specific personalities and their political programme is "stay relevant, win elections".

There are shooting stars from time to time, like Volt at the moment, who try to present a political platform with some degree of coherence, but it's doubtful that they will survive more than one election cycle. Volt Cyprus is quite economically right-wing for my taste, but if I was still voting in Cyprus, I'd probably consider them my only option and would have no choice but to vote for them.

27

u/-DanRoM- Germany 1d ago

The German party "Die Linke" (lit. "The Left") are the only relevant left-leaning party left over, in terms of social politics and stuff. I agree strongly with much of their politics in this field. 

Yet their pro-Russia stance, fuelled by a mixture of lie-down pacifism and their failure to shed the past (Russia = USSR = communism = good) makes it impossible to vote for them (except perhaps on communal level where foreign politics are not relevant... but even there I struggle). 

7

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Seeing so many left wing parties being pro Russia is so confusing, here in France it’s the opposite cuz the right wing is paid off by Russia

13

u/-DanRoM- Germany 1d ago edited 1d ago

Why not both?

The right wing extremist parties across Europe are all influenced by Russia (to varying degrees), because they serve the Russian interest of dividing and weakening Europe as a whole and the individual countries as well.

The lefties are, as I said, traditionally friendly to Russia because they didn't get the memo that it's not the communist big brother anymore, but has turned into a fascist autocracy trying to reintroduce a Russian empire in eastern and central Europe. (And the lefties don't realise that the Warsaw Pact was just a Russian empire painted red.)

1

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Damn thats fucking bad, so ur country in general is pro Russia? If the leftists are pro Russia cuz ussr why are the right? Is it cuz if the Russian gas piplines?

5

u/Think-Trip-1865 Germany 1d ago

You have the extreme right being pro Russian and the extreme left being pro Russian. Most of the other parties generally deeply condemn Russia.

2

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Oh Im Ty for clarification

2

u/-DanRoM- Germany 1d ago

Either you are a particularly bad trollbot or you are not familiar with the concept of having more than two political parties.

As you were saying you were from France, I sadly have to assume the former. 

0

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Bro wtf are you talking about i just asked a question and at first ur comment was just “why not both?” And not the whole explanation u edited in, it was just a question Jesus Christ

1

u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

The country is not pro Russian.

There are two or three parties that are pro Russian in their policies (AfD and linke and BSW which didn't make it to Parliament very narrowly), they differ in their rhetoric though. Die linke has the old "pacifist" talking points but in practice they just want Ukraine to surrender to Ukraine and EU and NATO not to take any defensive measaures.

Their combined vote share is somewhere in the 30s percentage wise but I'd say for most of their voters the Russia issue is not the number one priority on both sides of the spectrum

1

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Oh ok Ty for the clarification

1

u/Albon123 Hungary 22h ago

I’m sorry, but isn’t LFI also heavy on being “pro-peace” and constantly bashing the “West”?

I mean, okay, they might not overtly be pro-Russia, but they certainly seem to criticize Ukraine a lot more than they do Russia. Plus they don’t find it a problem to praise Russian-aligned dictatorships that claim to be socialists (ahem ahem Venezuela).

1

u/EmuFamiliar3261 22h ago

Lfi are straight up extremists they dont really reflect most of the parties I mean they are literal terrorists sympathisers with them several times working with branches of Muslim brotherhood, encouraging antisemitism and calling Hamas resistance fighters the next day of October 7th, they are literally being investigated right now for Islamic sympathies and you don’t get that for nothing. Most of the pro peace sentiment is therefore directed towards Gaza, truth is Ukraine is kinda old news.

Them and lutte ouvrière in France does criticise Ukraine but they all unanimously condemn Russia, they aren’t too much pro Ukraine but they definitely are not pro Russia. most of the left condemn Russia and supports Ukraine, in fact most of the pro Russia stances are from the right wing and is most commonly associated with the right partially due to RN and their corruption with a case of lepen their leader probably definitely paid off to support crimea annexation.

Which is why Im pretty surprised to see many eu left wing parties actually being pretty pro Russia, when to us that’s associated with the right

1

u/DotComprehensive4902 Ireland 1d ago

In Germany, the party I can't stick on the left is the BSW. I always get the feeling from them they'd be happy for the DDR to return and subsequently for Putin's boys to be jackbooting it down the Ku-dam!!

1

u/Nirocalden Germany 19h ago

The BSW is very weird, because they're fishing on both sides of the aisle. Economically left wing, but culturally right wing. Mostly they're a cult of personality party around Sahra Wagenknecht though and few people doubt that they're at least partially financed by Moscow.

Luckily they didn't make it to the parliament in the last elections, though they're still relevant in some states. Hopefully they will eventually fade into obscurity there as well.

27

u/Tortenkopf Netherlands 1d ago

We have this left leaning Christian party that has super conscientious politicians and experienced leaders and I agree with them on basically everything except they arr against gay marriage and abortion and shops opening on Sunday and damn I wish they could just see the light.

11

u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark 1d ago

I dont expect anything else from a Christian party. They would betray their very existence if they were okay with gay marriage and abortion

6

u/Notspherry 1d ago

CU would be on my shortlist for every election if they would just drop the religious stuff.

8

u/disneyvillain Finland 1d ago

Interior minister Mari Rantanen (Finns Party) said something some time ago about how we should focus migration and refugee efforts on people from regions that have proven successful at integrating in Finland (e.g. Southeast Asians, Ukrainians), even if that means turning away other groups. She got a lot of flak for that, but it makes total sense. We would be stupid not to.

5

u/Cixila Denmark 1d ago

I really do not like the current PM, her party, or the government. The coalition as it stands shouldn't even exist. The SocDems are pulling my country to the right, and 2 of the 3 parties in government even said they did not want this coalition during the elections. There is no way I will ever vote for any of the three parties. That said, I am happy that they have taken such a pro-Ukraine stance

Enhedslisten (our most left-wing party) has had some really... interesting... takes, policies, and comments. For instance, one of their MPs said in parliament that Russia isn't a threat to peace in Europe (which literally had our PM jump in her chair in shock). He said that after the full-scale war. The party also used to support leaving the EU and NATO, but those things have been quietly dropped or toned down a bit since brexit and Ukraine

12

u/AncillaryHumanoid Ireland 1d ago

Catherine Connolly, was my local candidate voted many times, now running for President.

Love all her leftist positions except position on Ukraine (for peace but not thru fighting whatever that means) and defense (against Irish involvement in EU defense initiatives)

11

u/topkaas_connaisseur Belgium 1d ago

Jean-Marie Dedecker. He is an opportunist who joins other parties just to get elected. He has no respect for people working in healthcare and is an advocate for the privatisation of healthcare like in the USA. He also thinks that yelling and talking loudly makes you right.

But the guy is a strong proponent of the Palestinian people and is invested in improving their situation.

Also, he once almost ran me over on my bicycle 25 years ago and used to beat his wife.

10

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago edited 1d ago

Tbf politics In Belgium are just fucked overall, where else do u see their own minister say Belgium shouldn’t exist??

2

u/Eygam Czechia 1d ago

I dont know but I will assume he think they should split? The country is basically two countries in permanent silent treatment of the other so on certain level, it makes sense.

4

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Yes Ik lol but it’s still funny to have the elected leader of ur country say their country should not exist lmao where else do u see that?

9

u/Eygam Czechia 1d ago

I am Czech, we have done it over three decades ago 😀

9

u/nemu98 Spain 1d ago

I can always find something from another party that I could agree with even if I would never vote for them.

I consider myself left, but I understand how left-wing policies might be detrimental to business so I can be shifted a bit to the right.

I understand the issue of immigration but I would never vote with the far-right on it because they clearly lack any kind of basic human decency.

I can accept a strengthening in the border control however I would never vote with the right or far-right because my reasons for it and their reasons for it are different.

I can accept the ban of Muslim symbols only if it also includes the ban of any other religious symbols, hence never voting with the right or far-right.

It's unfortunate that left wing parties have become so close-minded and also it's unfortunate how most parties will not compromise on anything for the good of the country, it seems it's always my way or the highway, which is a very sad thought.

11

u/thisemotrash England 1d ago

Jeremy Corbyn and his new party, made up of the independent pro-Gaza MPs. A lot of what Corbyn says I agree with, but most of the MPs in this alliance are actually pretty right wing and I think communication will break down when it comes to things like LGBT (especially Trans) rights. Corbyn has also been very critical of Ukraine, at some points it seems like he’s blaming Ukraine themselves for the invasion and not Russia, which is enough that I don’t think I could vote for his new party.

2

u/SometimesaGirl- United Kingdom 20h ago

He would also dismantle our armed forces, utterly fail to do anything about rejoining or even strengthening ties with the EU, tax to death every profitable industry we have left and make us an uninvestable country.
He'd be as bad for us as Trump is for America. The only difference is he has better intentions.

7

u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Jean Luc Mélanchon( LFI French far left party) I agree with him about rich ppl fucking us over but I will never vote for him due to him working with Islamist groups like branches of the Muslim brotherhood, him being antisemitic in the sense he never talks about antisemitism in France despite it being the most common forms of discrimination in France now (Jews 1% of pop suffer 57% of attacks based on religion in France) this is partly due to him putting in everyone’s brain Jewish=pro Israel while he always presents himself as the defender of discriminated groups.

In general hes very complacent on Islamic terrorism like him refusing to condemn October 7th and calling Hamas à resistance organisation the next day of October 7th, this is partly due to him having Muslims as a huge voter base for him.

Hes also a big fat fucking hypocrite, he used to be so openly critical of Islam then the second hes gotta get votes he supports them, hes more intrested in entering French history books then doing anything useful.

And in general hes really unlikeable, hateful and has this super fucking annoying moral surperiority complex and savoir complex and he ruined the French left cuz since hes à populist all the young are voting for him so every left wing party allied with him so now I can’t even vote for a left wing party cuz of his stupid ass.

3

u/Serious-Text-8789 1d ago

The vast majority of them… they all have something you probably agree with but only a few have nothing you just cant accept

7

u/Prestigious-You-7016 Netherlands 1d ago

SP in the Netherlands. Socialist party, great for worker rights etc. But then they're very anti-EU and low-key racist.

0

u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

How tf are they racist?

2

u/Notspherry 1d ago

More xenophobic than racist I would say, but I'm a fan of neither.

10

u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

The green party has some issues I agree with like supporting Ukraine, reducing meat consumption, improving animal welfare, reducing car traffic etc.

But overall the party is too hostile to technology, progress and economic growth and has too many hard ideologists and far leftists in its ranks to be a real option for me.

7

u/crucible Wales 1d ago

The Green Party of England and Wales* has spent the last decade protesting the environmental ’destruction’ caused by the now severely curtailed High Speed 2 rail project in the UK.

Then, when the first section in the North of England was cancelled, they complained that “The North” was missing out again!

* there are separate Geeen parties for Scotland and NI.

4

u/NarrativeShadow 1d ago

Hostile to technology and progress? In which way?

5

u/agrammatic Cypriot in Germany 1d ago

Nuclear energy, most likely. They were the ones most consistently against it until all other parties also agreed with them.

2

u/helmli Germany 1d ago

Nuclear energy is not really progressive by any means, though.

The only positive is its extremely low emissions. Apart from that, it's very expensive, there are still no reasonably safe storage solutions, and it makes us more dependent on other nations than any other form of energy.

Also, it's almost impossible to rebuild the structures for it in Germany; we don't have any trained personnel to build or maintain the plants anymore. That was a foreseeable tendency since the 90s. It would be incredibly expensive to rebuild and operate that infrastructure now.

6

u/wojtekpolska Poland 1d ago

bullshit. you didnt have any before you built your original plants to begin with, and you only been shutting down for like 10-15 years, the personel would quickly come back

also training more is easy, nuclear physicists are more common than in the past, and eg. in poland we got south korea to train the personel for us.

1

u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

See my other comment.

6

u/userrr3 Austria 1d ago

Not trying to debate you, but genuinely curios, as an Austrian where the green party is overlapping in some but disagreeing in other topics with the German greens - where do you see hostility to technology, progress and economic growth in the German greens?

Regarding the far leftists I find it funny how the greens seem to sit in a weird niche where they're too leftist for centrists and too centrist for leftists

10

u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

They are against traditional nuclear power, against small modular reactors, against nuclear fusion research, against carbon capture and storage, against modern pesticides, against genetically modified organisms, against the Transrapid train, against the free trade agreements and the list goes on.

And I'm not saying everyone in the party is a Leftist . People like Cem Özdemir or Winfried Kretschmann are perfectly reasonable politicians that I would trust to lead an administration. But then you have all the nutjobs especially from their youth wing and the party seems unwilling to do something about them.

6

u/grogipher Scotland 1d ago

against carbon capture and storage

Isn't this basically a dead duck anyway?

against the Transrapid train

This is the one that blows my mind. The English & Welsh Greens were against our version here too... You can't get people using public transport if you don't invest in it and make real alternatives to flying/driving!

3

u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

Who says it's a dead duck? There are many promising projects going on around the world.

Germany could have been a pioneer had we started 20 years ago. It was not only the greens who blocked it but their opposition nicely illustrates their extremely tech-hostile mindset.

-1

u/Think-Trip-1865 Germany 1d ago

Nuclear power plants are ridiculesly expensive in comparison to solar energy plants. All the maintenance, safety concerns, nuclear waste and enriched uranium needed isn't worth the effort to rebuild the network, and a longterm end was inevitable. It would have been better to abolish fossil energy plants first but I don't think it's worth the effort to build nuclear power plants all over the country. Regarding fusion energy: why investing large sums in research to create an artificial sun, that at this time, doesn't seem anywhere near being energy efficient or even stable. We already have a much more powerful sun and the technology to efficiently use its energy.

And a lot of modern pesticides are really really harmful to the environment.

5

u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

Like many green supporters, you completely ignore the downsides of solar energy.

Nobody wants to ban solar energy but we've spent hundreds of billions on solar subsidies only to come to a situation in which we have one of the highest end prices for consumers, one of the worst co2 intensities in the EU and a lack of stable and predictable supply that makes us unattractive for energy intensive industries.

2

u/DotComprehensive4902 Ireland 1d ago

And believe me your last point about the Greens is a unique German/Austrian issue, where the Greens occupy a space near the centre. In most of the rest of Europe, the Greens are solidly in the space to the left of the unreformed big church socialist parties.

2

u/dustojnikhummer Czechia 1d ago

Honestly, no matter what side of the political spectrum/horseshoe/circle you are, what politician does not fit that?

2

u/Comfortable_Smel1 Finland 23h ago

Left Alliance. Their economic policy doesn’t cater to the large corporations and they actually rely on science and statistics in their policymaking. Unfortunately though we’re not really on the same page on security issues and that’s a dealbreaker for me.

2

u/Renardroux0 22h ago

Matteo Renzi (Italia Viva), nothing wrong with his own platform but due to his mercantilistic way to interpret politics he often ends up supporting outrageous laws or coalitions for some political bargains, you can't trust him

2

u/Snapphane88 Sweden 22h ago

Swedish Democrats was founded in the 80s by people belonging to the neo-nazi organisations "Bevara Sverige Svenskt" and "Sverigepartiet". I do think they have done a good job of bringing our immigration issues to the forefront, making our other parties actually discuss the topic. 15 years ago it "felt" racist simply just talking about it, today we can have a dialogue, which I do thank them for.

I like Jimmy, their party leader, but the rest of the party is so trash and I fear what will happen if he disappears. They are constantly caught saying nazi, oe racist shit. Because of this, and their neo-nazi origins i will never vote for them, but i do think they fill an important role in our politics. I just dont want them getting a majority.

For similar reasons, i think our left party fills an important role for our unions and worker rights, but they used to be called "Vänsterpartiet Kommunisterna", and i dont really want to vote for a party that has their roots in communism either.

4

u/NiceKobis Sweden 1d ago

Sweden's PM is center right on almost all issues (he's from the center-right party so it's not surprising). Which I generally don't like economically, a lot of the other stupid laws passed are with huge majorities in parliament atm, they're all trying to make old timey morals a thing. Like the "think of the children" for spying on citizens.

But shortly after he was elected he pushed through an extremely reasonable and streamlined law for how younger transpeople should be cared for and what we allow them to do and who they need approval from. He did this getting almost no support from his coalition, the far-right (SD) were against it, the small "Christian" party were against it, and most of his own party was against. But that was an actual moral stance he had and he made it law. I respect that.

1

u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

Wilders. PVV just released their program for the upcoming elections and I do agree that the multicultural society has failed, that we need an immigration stop, that Islam is a major problem for many reasons, that Islamic schools and dress do not fit into our society and that quite a lot can be sent back to their safe countries.

For the rest, everything they say is complete whack. So, my vote goes to the most realistic leftist party again.

6

u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

that we need an immigration stop, that Islam is a major problem for many reasons, that Islamic schools and dress do not fit into our society and that quite a lot can be sent back to their safe countries.

So, my vote goes to the most realistic leftist party again.

There is some extreme mental gymnastics here. There is no party on the left that even marginally agrees with you.

3

u/Notspherry 1d ago

If you disregard the explicit racism, there is a huge overlap between the SP and PVV

1

u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

SP does and has been warning against the failed immigration of muslim workers since the early 1980s when it became clear those people were left to their own devices.

-2

u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

Ah, I see, conservative left. They are not classical leftist but Marxists. That's why you didn't understand how others find the SP somewhat racist.

6

u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

I consider myself progressive. I just don't see how Islam deserves a place in a free society. We rightfully kicked back against one religion to now accept another? Makes no sense to me.

1

u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

You're a libertarian, which has nothing to do with being progressive or leftist. I really suggest looking up what it means because all your statements make you the opposite of a "progressive leftie".

It's also quite weird that you would vote for the most conservative "left" party we have, that are indeed anti-religious, but also very much anti-intellectual, and call yourself a progressive. That doesn't make sense.

0

u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

Ik ga even in het Nederlands verder, uit nieuwsgierigheid even gekeken naar je profiel en vooral naar je comments en bijdragen in r/nederland, een van oudsher ongelooflijk rechts en "anti-woke" bolwerk.

Ik begrijp werkelijk waar niet hoe jij jezelf links en progressief kan noemen, en tegelijkertijd dingen schrijft over het "voorover buigen en je in de kont te laten nemen in de naam van deugdelijkheid". De mental gymnastics zijn fascinerend. Je kakt op werkelijke progressief links gedachtengoed en noemt jezelf daarna progressief en links.

The math ain't mathin'.

2

u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

Oh wil ik je best uitleggen hoor. Ik ga hier geen heel epistel schrijven, maar in het kort ben ik voor goede arbeidersrechten, meer geld naar de zorg, beetje lief zijn voor elkaar, milieu ipv landbouw (zit zoveel pfas in de sloot hier, niet normaal), homorechten (de mensen die het niet aanstaat zouden kunnen bedenken dat je dan nog niet iemand zn waardigheid hoeft af te pakken), en ook graag wat meer aandacht voor de regio. Oh, en goedkoper ov. Het enige waar ik heel rechts in ben (tegenwoordig) is cultuur. Ik heb het altijd vreemd gevonden dat links de Islam zo koestert, terwijl een reactionaire ideologie wel het meest ver verwijderd is van zowel liberalisme als socialisme. In mijn optiek zouden we die juist moeten bestrijden en ons hard maken voor een langzaam progressief veranderende samenleving op seculiere basis. Dat was vroeger een klassiek links standpunt (opium voor de massa) maar ik zie het tegenwoordig nauwelijks terug.

Dus nee, ik heb niks op met alles wat rechts is behalve mijn standpunt over immigratie, cultuurrelativisme en soms een beetje politiek correctheid. Daar valt verder nog genoeg over te melden hoor, iedereen die trots moet verkondigen dat ie anti-woke is doet dat meestal als dekmantel om zijn eigen haat over een ander te mogen spuwen en dan janken als er iemand wat van zegt.

Help dit?

2

u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

Help dit?

Helaas wel, een klassieke SP'r, gelijke rechten en een beter leven voor witte mensen. Ik herriner me nu ook dat er heel veel SP stemmers overlopen naar de PVV en weer terug.

Dat links de islam zou koesteren is trouwens een rechtse leugen, niet dat het jou wat kan schelen, maar dat moet ik wel benoemen.

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u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

Pardon, ik maak onderscheid op basis van iemands mening en die kan voortkomen uit religie. Ik heb het nergens over ras gehad. Dat maak jij er van. Ik heb liever een seculiere Iranier als buurman dan een SGP'er.

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u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

"Een buitenlander is oké, maar wel onder mijn voorwaarden". Je ziet het gewoon niet.

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u/DotComprehensive4902 Ireland 1d ago

You're the traditional anti-clerical progressive leftie, a type that's not seen much anymore in the majority of progressive circles who are very much live and let live.

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u/Think-Trip-1865 Germany 1d ago

Just out of confusion: I would classify Marxists as communist or socialist who are leftists for me.

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u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

Understandable. In a historical context, Marxists are rather extreme-left and a far cry from what we consider progressives, or what we would call a "lefty." Specifically in the Netherlands, a country that has never had a left-leaning government and is particularly right-leaning centrist.

But this whole thread is confusing as hell. The original commentator proclaims to understand and agree with most of the principal party lines of the most far-right party the Netherlands has. When asked which left party he aligns with, he names the most conservative socialist party we have. And to make it even weirder, he calls himself a progressive (while also being active in a well-known far-right Dutch subreddit).

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u/Think-Trip-1865 Germany 1d ago

Thanks.

Well I guess if one is so delusional to think the far right has some good points regarding "the Muslim threat", it doesn't take much to be so confused to think the conservative Social Democratic Party is leftist and agrees with one's political views.

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u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

Why not to a centrist party?

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u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

Neoliberalism has been fucking us over since the 1980s.

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u/ayepodaye Ireland 1d ago

It sure has. Sort out the fucking tax havens across the world!

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u/Nipso -> -> 20h ago

Interesting flair lol

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u/Lanky-Rush607 Greece 1d ago

Dimiourgia Ksana, I agree with some of Thanos Tzimeros' statements about the Greek economy, but outside of that, it is not much different from other Greek right-wing parties. Anti-LGBTQ, anti-immigration, Pro-Russia, Pro-Israel, pro-Trump, anti-EU and nationalist. 

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u/lapraksi Albania 1d ago

Agron Shehaj, although way too neo-liberal for me and he's also a small state guy. Also wants to abolish the TVSH/RTSH whatever it's called these days, only to remove the tax.

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u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Isnt ur country basically à mafia run pyramid scheme ? Are the elections real or rigged ?

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u/lapraksi Albania 1d ago

Not really, elections are mostly free, just that politics are too polarized and somewhat tribalistic.

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u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Ok Ty, cuz I heard there’s a lot of corruption going on in Albania and it’s an iffy democracy from what I’ve head

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u/lapraksi Albania 1d ago

Fair enough, the corruption part is real tho, and the only somewhat good thing we are getting from this is potential EU accession

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u/EmuFamiliar3261 1d ago

Yeah I mean there’s hella countries who have had potential eu accession for decades lmao i can onky hope for ur country it becomes reality

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u/lapraksi Albania 23h ago

I mean, we have had fast progress with Rama tbf, although he is shit yea.

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u/DotComprehensive4902 Ireland 1d ago

Irish here...for me, it's Sinn Féin, a left wing unification party.

I like their economic stuff but their flipflopping on certain social issues and the willingness of their supporters to entertain a possible coalition with Fianna Fail, the centre right party whose policies caused the economic crash in Ireland, makes me say no way, never will I vote for them.

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u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark 1d ago

I basically dont agree with Lars Løkke at all, but he was the only one who spoke against the US with the whole Greenland situation. One of the only times I have agreed with him.

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u/Nahcep Poland 23h ago

I've yet to find a person that never agreed with a single proposal by Konfederacja, but also a lot of people don't jive with their very fundamental Catholic stances (which the party knows well enough to hide around every election). Nevermind the whole new right-wing Internationale they want to see realized

Also the Ziobro faction of PiS, while the whole party is almost 180° from my views they are the only ones I would consider becoming a "freedom fighter" against

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u/-SQB- Netherlands 20h ago
  • SP, the Socialist Party in The Netherlands. I like and agree with a number of their viewpoints, but I dislike their internal party politics. From what I've read, I gather they're not a big fan of internal disagreements. And I find it unbelievable that the daughter of the party leader became (though with other people in between) the party leader herself.
    I also dislike some of their ideas, such as their anti-EU stance. I have voted for them a couple of times, but stopped when in the late nineties, the party leader at the time said he thought people should sacrifice some privacy for safety.
  • BIJ1, another party on the left. I have voted for them once, but they turned into a circular firing squad pretty quickly. Also, they posted a pro-Hamas statement right after the attacks of the 7 October attacks, while being anti-NATO and against military support for Ukraine. Not pro-Russia either, though, I must give them that.
  • PvdD, the Party for the Animals, was on the fence about military support for Ukraine for a long time too, but the hardcore pacifists have split off now.

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u/Notspherry 19h ago

Bij1 was a complete joke. It's like they tried to recreate the right wing caricature of an angry leftist as reality. Their whole thing was just calling everybody a racist.

It was hilarious to see how the party imploded with the Gario incident.

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u/LittBoloMestNese Norway 12h ago

Norway🇳🇴

This is a crazy story that happened some years ago. Short intro to our political system, we are not a two-party system. We have several parties, so that the winning side (left/right) have to cooperate and agree with smaller parties. So no matter which side wins, it’s usually only small differences in policies.

Anyways.

Our then prime minister, Egon Olsen, for our right leaning party. Forgot to turn his mic of during a debate with the left leaning party leader, Espen Askeladd. Egon was heard speaking on the phone with the wife of Espen during a commercial break and the proceeded to speak about his penis in 3rd person. They were having an affair and that was how the news broke.

Media had a meal of that incident and Egon had to retire from politics. Espen proceeded to remarry and is now a regular motivantional speaker on how to recover from hard psychological falls.

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u/IWillDevourYourToes Czechia 11h ago

Jana Maláčová. A former social democrat who usually meant well when it comes to helping the less economically fortunate and fighting the injustices.

Destroyed the Social Democrat party by letting it get absorbed by Stalinist Stačilo! Consistently downplays their anti-democratic stances and praises for Putin.

u/die_kuestenwache Germany 3h ago edited 3h ago

I can agree with some statements of the conservatives but most of them are dog whistles for other statements they don't dare make. Like "we can't afford our welfare state" is true in that the demographic change will force us to make some sacrifices to keep up a sensible amount of support for those in need but what they mean is "we might need to tell some people to work or starve if we want to keep ensuring a good amount of dividends that ensure the calcification and accumulation of generational wealth for our voters" and that is decidedly not "we have to redistribute some of the accumulated wealth of the post war generations to lower contributions to the social welfare system for the current working class in order to lower the cost of employment". I can also agree with the Nazis if they say "children shouldn't get to see porn". But what they mean is "children shouldn't get any information on gay or queer people".

The classic case for me was always the left party being really agreeable in many statements and then going "and we should abolish NATO and just be friends with Russia, because the war in Ukraine is the US fault". No NATO no Vote, sorry.

u/Bluebearder 2h ago

The Dutch PVV (populists) have their ear close to the ground, as populist parties often do. They know what's going on amongst the people that are upset about traditional politics and their lack of care about them. We are for example about 400k houses short, which means about 400k people (2% of the population) live with their parents or in shady situations like illegal subletting, in tiny rooms and attics and basements and garden houses and garages, and this is crazy. It also means that many more people are living in homes that don't fit them, for example they get kids but can't get a bigger house, or the kids leave the house but they can't go smaller. The whole market is locked up, and the populists seem to be most aware of this. Which is great of them (or better said: terrible of the other political parties).

But that same party pins everything on asylum seekers. Asylum seekers have some influence on this whole problem, immigrants need to live somewhere and that means they compete for the same housing as anyone. But there are many much better solutions to this problem than blaming everything on a relatively small group. We have for example about 40 million square meters of empty buildings, which nobody dares to touch because real estate investors are powerful. Racism is easier I guess.

u/TheRedLionPassant England 18m ago

I tend to lean toward the left on most issues, but on some issues disagree strongly with some of the left-wing parties. For example they often propose things like downgrading the military in the name of 'peace'. I'm far from a warhawk, but given threats against us on the regular by some actors, I really think it's important to invest in defence.

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u/muse_enjoyer025 Netherlands 1d ago

I'd vote for the centrist liberal party leader Rob Jetten but his party wants elected mayors, just bad idea.

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u/11160704 Germany 1d ago

Most countries in Europe have elected mayors and it works perfectly fine.

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u/lapraksi Albania 1d ago

Why is it a bad idea exactly?

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u/jotakajk Spain 1d ago

How are mayors chosen in the Netherlands?

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u/jamesbananashakes Netherlands 1d ago

Every citizen can apply for the job, and the new mayor is chosen by the city council. In reality, political parties propose their favorite candidates, and a non-political candidate never makes it. It's pretty weird to be against elected mayors, let alone have it be the one issue you don't want to vote on. Then again the Dutch are masters in "we have done this for a 100 years and it works fiiiiiiine".

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u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

Appointed by the king after being recommended by a municipial council.

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u/jotakajk Spain 1d ago

And how is this council chosen?

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u/NeverSawOz Netherlands 1d ago

Democratic election, on the same day as provincial elections.

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u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark 1d ago

So they're elected mayors?

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u/Notspherry 1d ago

Not directly elected. And I think that is a good thing. Makes their rule a bit more consensus based and less populist.

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u/jotakajk Spain 1d ago

So more less the same as the prime minister, isn’t it? I consider that elected, although I understand you were talking of something akin to the French model

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u/Notspherry 1d ago

I always found myself agreeing with a lot of their more general views, but disagreeing on stuff like referendums. Their recent swing to the right with regards to refugees makes me never want to vote for them again.

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u/Apolinario13 Portugal 23h ago

The political party would be the communist party. They have good takes on most internal politics, and in therms of international politics they are on point being neutral and remaining some sovereignty. In national terms, I think they don't go far enough in democracy at work and our power to elect bosses and democracy not being just elections from x to x time. They defend why too much the “national small and medium companies" which are just terrible places to work where bosses are way less educated than employees (to the point they cont understand if someone explains any kind of stuff to them, because was not like that in the old days or my daddy did not do it like that), besides this small and medium places have no regard for workers rights, so fuck them I will not work for them as long as I can. The other problem is that they don't support the creation of nuclear power plants because of some BS about weapons.