Why can't I complete all my pirouettes

[u/[deleted]]

[u/vpsass]

First problem is that you let your foot turn ⅓ of the way around without you! Think of springing up onto your retiré and pulling the toes underneath you, you should be in retiré by the time you get ¼ of the way around. From this photo, when your supporting foot is ¼ of the way around, your back foot is still on the floor.

Second problem is related, in your prep your centre of weight is between your two legs (in purple below). You can only balance if your centre of weight is aligned with where your foot touches the floor, you can try to experiment with this if you don’t believe me. So in the pirouette position, there is only one foot on the floor, the front foot. Now, it’s much easier to turn if our centre of mass is alright aligned with the front foot, because then we just have to lift our whole body straight up like an elevator and boom we are balanced, instead of up and forward like you are trying to do. I imagine if you tried to balance without the turn you’d also struggle. Move your hips way forward in your prep (red line) but dont lean forwards, then you will find it much easier to be “on your leg” in your turns.

You might want to practice quarter turns from 5th until you master these two elements.

[u/vpsass → u/vpsass]

Figure 2 for comment above.

[u/lscrivy → u/vpsass]

I would argue that weight placement before a turn is personal preference. A common recommendation I see is 70/30 ratio of weight on front and back foot, which is a good starting point. However, many good turners start from a 50/50 position (and dare I say some even have their weight behind centre).

Of course maybe for beginners it's better to think of having the weight in the front, but I don't know at what stage we should let the body just do it's thing.

It's complicated :)

[u/vpsass → u/lscrivy]

Right but a 30/70 split or 50/50 split requires the dancer to shift their weight to the front foot as they enter the turn, which is significantly more complicated physics. Especially for women who carry more weight in their hips.

Lots of people can turn from 30/70 or 50/50, specifically men as they have a much more even weight distribution in their torso. But clearly, a 30/70 weight distribution isn’t working for OP, that’s why she keeps falling backwards.

[u/lscrivy → u/vpsass]

Yeah rewatching the video I reckon you are right that it will help in this case. My point was more that it isn't true for everyone.

Also no one is completely eliminating front/back adjustment of the torso between preparation and turn. If you take a retire and then move your torso exactly vertically down to the preparation position you end up in a super uncomfortable place.

[u/vpsass → u/lscrivy]

In Vaganova technique we teach with the body weight entirely on the front foot, it is the same for everyone as students. If professional dancers choose to make adjustments they are free to do so, but it is not the way we study.

It should not be uncomfortable? Like I said, the weight of the body and the front leg is on the front leg, the weight of the back leg is on the back leg, and then we go straight up, no adjustment forward or back. It requires a strong use of turnout.

[u/lscrivy → u/vpsass]

I understand the textbook explanation. Personally I don't think it's realistic and I believe the 70/30 cue (which some top schools teach) is more helpful.

At the end of the day it's all just different ways to achieve the same goal. If it works it works, and I think teachers should be open to a wide variety of approaches.

[u/TallCombination6]

Your passe isn't supported from underneath, so it wobbles and slides down your leg. There should be energy from under your thigh - and from your foot- that pushes you passe up while your working hip presses down. This creates tension that stabilizes your turn.

[u/dabblesanddonuts]

Think of a pirouette as a balance that happens to rotate. Not a rotation that happens to balance. 💖. The previous suggestion of working more to balance in passe and work from 5th is a good one! 😃

[u/Counther]

I’m not an expert, but it might help to get stronger on your singles before going for doubles. Once you can be balanced at the end of a single, you’ll be better prepared for doubles. As someone else suggested, you might even work on quarter turns also. 

Good luck on your RAD exam! I did them for a few years ages ago! 

[u/McMeowface]

You’re getting into your posse quickly and your arms look good! I think where it’s coming apart is that you’re falling backwards. It almost seems like instead of pulling your center tight, you’re pulling up and back which is causing you to fall backwards out of your turns.

I would go back to basics. Practice just pulling up into releve/posse and holding it. So prep for the turn, but instead of turning, just hold and balance. This can help you kind of figure out what you need to engage to stay upright for your pirrouettes. Once you feel comfortable with that, start with singles and work on that until they are clean. If you’re in the exam, I would say a clean single pirouette is better than falling out of a messy double.

[u/fbmbassist]

In addition to what everyone else said--you seem to be going for doubles even though you should take it down to a single pirouette until it's solid. Unless there's some specific requirement in your exam, audiences appreciate a clean single more.

[u/throwaway_oversways → u/fbmbassist]

For context, OP mentioned they are taking RAD Advanced Foundation and double pirouettes (en dehors and en dedans) are compulsory. They become compulsory from RAD Intermediate and upwards.

My teacher said that we have to at least attempt a double even if we can’t complete it (and not just try for a nice single), so I understand why OP is going for it.

[u/fbmbassist → u/throwaway_oversways]

Ah, ok that makes sense then. I figured it might be an exam/level thing.

[u/leticx]

I have the same problem. I realized I tend to lean backwards and put too much weight on my back leg. Also see if you’re putting too much force for a single

[u/PortraitofMmeX]

Your passe is very wiggly. When you feel yourself losing your turn you let it collapse down or become disconnected from your standing leg. You want to do the opposite, actively pull that knee up and back and really anchor it with your standing leg (I like to think of the turnout in each leg as pressing away from each other).

[u/SbXamedhi]

People are saying too many things, you'll go crazy trying to apply all of this. The best is to ask your teacher. I'd tell you what I'm seeing wrong and what could be improved but you will probably miss the comment.

[u/Retiredgiverofboners]

Make a smaller 4th

[u/MelenPointe]

OMG, that studio looks so familiar I think I used to dance there a lifetime ago! I thought it got shut down after Heartbeat opened!

I think focusing more on the plie and rebounding from that will help with a bit more speed + allow you to releve straight up as you aren't fully stacked now esp for the en dedans. Thinking of snapping the arms in faster will also help rather than now where it looks a bit like you're just gently placing them in first.

But seriously, if you aren't used to dancing so many days straight your body might simply be not used to that. And pirouette are one of those things that can get thrown off by over thinking as it requires a lot of coordination (and focusing on 1 part often means another part of it that IS working for you gets forgotten).

5 days away from exam I'll just say make sure you stay healthy and injury free. Also do ensure you eat appropriately and at the correct timing to help you on exam day (I always needed the largest bunch of food coma inducing stuff for energy, but I had friends whose body would literally go to sleep if they ate too much 🤷🏻‍♀️)

Good luck and have fun! :) AF has some of the nicest music!

[u/Delishpotato89]

I don’t teach RAD ballet, but vaganova method, however my corrections would be similar to everyone else - your weight is backwards and so you are not directly on your supporting leg, therefore it will be difficult to turn. Your arms are also quite low, so this will also throw your weight back. Think of having a spiral pin on top of your head and you have to keep it straight. I’d practice by just doing releves in retiree positions on semi point without turning in centre, then practice single with that same feeling, then doubles.

[u/Decent-Historian-207]

Your retire isn't strong enough. You need to hold it tight and then put it down intentionally. It kind of wobbles around your knee and slides down your leg and you have to hop to compensate for the shift.

[u/Catlady_Pilates]

You need to work on a clean single.

[u/greencactus]

I suspect you might have the same issue as me. My biggest issue with my pirouettes is that I don't balance on the right part of my foot and it causes me to lean too much to my side/back and fall out of the turn. I see it here, you can also see it in the turn at 28 sec.

In my case, when I go demi, I have to put all of my weight on my big toe, otherwise my leg doesn't form a straight vertical line and my body is pushed back. Try playing around with where you put your weight on your foot on a half turn, it should be really obvious when you find the right location. I can balance there forever vs instantly falling off.

[u/unjustified_misery]

Agreed with a lot of other comments: body weight is too far back consistently, hence pulling you back.

The quick fix that I think is worth a try is to bring your arm a lot higher (first position in front of chest height) and also a lot rounder rather than flatter (bring your hands further away from your body). This I find helps to bring the body (esp upper back) forward and around, which is what I note tends to lead you to fall off balance.

I also noticed your first turns are all quite slow, which means you have even less force/time to get yourself around for the second turn. Aim to get your body around faster for the first turn so you have more momentum and time to complete the second turn.

Jiayous! (And don’t stress it out if you don’t hit them, there are way way more things to the exam than just pirouettes, make sure you nail those that you can do )

[u/Erela-Belle]

One thing that I find teachers don't mention much is to use the muscles under the armpits (serratus anterior) to help with balance, especially in passé and pirouettes. There should also be a lifting/squeezing sensation under the thigh of the working leg when held in passé.

With that being said, and as others have said, you have a good speed at getting your leg up to passé! And your finishes are clean, without falling off to the sides. For practice, try quarter turns before going into half turns, singles, and doubles. You can try doing a tendu to the side, then tendu back, and doing a pirouette (be it quarter, half turn, or double), and repeating it multiple times.

[u/Tough-Bet7988]

Something that always helped me was thinking about how you should be pulling up in your balance but there is opposition and you should also feel like you are pulling down with the standing leg. I’m not sure if I’m explaining that correctly. Basically I think about my body being pulled in two different directions, up and down.

[u/latortuequipleurait]

Not a technical advice but trust the process, pirouettes are not natural to everybody and it takes sometimes a lot of time to find what works for you (it really depends on the person) ! Hated pirouettes, didn't get the double before I was 17 but it has since then become really natural to me, don't get discouraged!

[u/insipignia]

Think about leaning your upper torso forward slightly. Your shoulders should stay open and back -- you aren't supposed to be slouching toward.

[u/No-Lettuce8270]

Balance girly. If you can Balance on releve passe you can turn a million times. Goodluck with your exam!

[u/Herolell]

There are already so many comments so I’m just gonna say good luck for your Advanced foundation exam! Just believe in yourself and believe that you will get all your turns and do amazingly :)

[u/chocolateteapot89]

I have just done this exam and am terrible at pirouettes. My teacher always reminded me when I got stressed out that as long as you attempt a double, which you do every time, then you still get marked on it. She also advised that the exercise is marked as a whole, not just the turns are marked, so don’t forget the technique of the tendus, as that will help marks too. The last minute tips you have here might help, but if it doesn’t work on the day, as long as you go round twice and dance the rest of the exercise well you will get marks. Your pirouettes section is also marked in conjunction with port de bras, and a good port de bras def helped raise my pirouette marks. It’s also only one section in the exam, so if you have other strengths like adage or allegro then they can help your overall marks too. Good luck!

[u/SparklyTots87 → u/chocolateteapot89]

Thank you so much for your kind words 💕 Hope you do well on your AF exam too!!