Ok but what is the purpose of this technique? Why not just place the needle normally? As a professional in the field, I'm genuinely curious. I've taken blood from patients a million times and even though this could be very accurate with practice, I'm confused about why it is better than just placing the needle because there will always be some risk of missing.
Regular insertion is not slow anyway. Even if it is slower than this, with proper technique, the patient won't feel anything. Edit: before you down vote me, please read this whole comment first and consider reading my other replies as well. I'm not saying it isn't painful for most people. IT ABSOLUTELY IS, but my point is that it SHOULDN'T be. A painless blood draw is possible and unfortunately most people have a negative experience. In a perfect circumstance, it can absolutely be completely painless but people are not perfect all the time and most commonly a slight pinch is felt.The medical community needs to continuously strive to do better, myself included. Edit again: Idk how to explain this any better. Your pain and experience is valid and real. I never said anything to the contrary.
As a cancer survivor whose been poked more times than I care to remember - the patient will always feel something. With that said though, the difference between a nursing student and a trained and experienced phlebotomist is night and day. One pokes 4-5 times missing the vein and digging around. The other is so gentle and precise you barely even feel it. Love me a good phlebotomist!
I'm that nurse. Worst case scenario is the other nurses destroyed your arms before calling me, and I'll just use the ultrasound. I won't say I never miss, but it is an exceedingly rare occasion.
That’s awesome. And thanks for being that ONE nurse!
I’m curious if you think you have an innate talent for finding veins or if you could teach other nurses so they’d be just as good? Do they just not emphasize it in school or training?
I got a 15 minute class in the Army and was then told to start an IV on my buddy. I was the only one to get it on the 1st try. I obviously have a natural ability. I do teach tips and tricks to my fellow nurses to help them get better. Plus, I have a rule: Don't come get me unless you've at least tried once. You can't get better just handing it off to me every time. I don't work every day after all. Some just never get past the mediocre level of ability. School gives you a basic concept and teaches you how to not kill someone in the real world. Clinicals and that 1st year of being a nurse is where the average person with no medical background starts to truly develop skill.
U r loved! Having a few heart attacks, and my mother Having cancer. After, my father died of the same. You, are golden, in that small space of watching someone suffer less.... I appreciate you! I also love ur work ethic! Ur skills, make the pain of every instance small. I'd clap, but u wouldn't hear it. Keep it up! Ur the single reason I go to a certain hospital. Looking for people, just like u. If you can hear my clap from PA, keep it with you, u, are a treasure!
Ive always wondered why pros don’t use the “flagging” technique a lot of people who IV themselves use; after the needle is under the skin you draw back a bit to create a vacuum, then when you pierce the vein the blood surges in so you know you have a vein.
I figured it’s probably somewhat risky of drawing something into the syringe and clogging up it, ir injecting it into the bloodstream, and it does require a bit if finesse to do. But as someone who has IV’d tons of drugs its helped keep my veins and intact and arms without a mark.
The way IV needles are set up, that isn't possible. Used to be. Drawing blood using a butterfly, that is possible. However, it is typically unnecessary because with a tourniquet, you have enough back pressure to get a flash of blood in the tubing. Many times, even without a tourniquet, you'll still get a flash.
This reminds me of when I was younger. We were in the emergency room, my sister had something wrong I don't remember, they tried and tried to get a vein but left to get someone else. My dad who was a crna just did it quickly while the nurse was gone and came in with a panic seeing my dad finish up before he told her that he was a crna who worked in that very hospital.
I actually had a nurse explain to me during a blood draw that the pain people usually feel is from the alcohol swab that they do before entering with the needle. She showed me by waiting a good bit after the swab (I assume to let it evaporate a lot) and then putting the needle in and to my surprise it was one of the only times I didn't feel pain.
Same way with vaccinations. I found a guy at Walmart who would actually swab it and then blow on it or use paper to fan it before giving me the shot. Practically painless. So all the other people I guess just don’t care, which really really sucks.
He shouldn’t blow on it! that’s just asking to decontaminate what was once a relatively clean surface, even fanning is against best practice. The alcohol evaporates within 30 seconds due to latent body heat.
Noted. Main point was that this is probably part of training that one can wait until the alcohol dries and most medical people don’t, which is sadistic.
I'd say they don't know. That's not something they teach in nursing school or where I originally learned, Army Medic training. They glance over letting it dry to kill the most microorganisms. Nothing mentioned about preventing pain.
When I was doing my phlebotomy externship in a hospital, I stuck an elderly woman and she told me that she didn't feel it at all. It made me feel so good.
One time, I had a guy digging around in my arm for almost 50 minutes. He eventually gave up and announced that it was in, based on precisely zero evidence. My arm blew up like a football and he just pretended not to notice. I'm pretty sure he was a student, but only because somebody with any experience would have known to ask for help.
I literally fainted yesterday from someone digging around to take blood from me. Tried again a couple of hours later with a good phlebotomist and I didn't even realise they had finished.
Hospitals can give a wide variety of expertise and experience. I had nurses tell me, while I literally was undergoing treatment for cancer of my immune system, that Covid was just like the flu and nothing to worry about. This was in April and May of 2020. It was rough...
Unfortunately, as a nurse, I can confirm that this level of stupidity was rampant. One of my supervisors told me covid was only passed via the fecal oral route. I snapped back that that seemed to be not plausible because I doubt that many people are licking each others butts. Never mind that I have a minor in clinical microbiology.
Good on ya. Most medical personnel are cool. Honestly this wasn't the first time I've had that happen. Had 4 tries at a blood donation a few years back (before the blood cancer, naturally). My veins aren't even particularly tricky to hit, either.
I needed an MRI as a young teen and a doctor tried to stick me fourteen times in the same spot. My mother finally intervened when I was sobbing and he was scolding me as he prepared to try again. Multiple nurses did not intervene, I'm assuming because this guy was a major dick and outranked them. It can be rough in environments where a doctor complaining might be the end of your job. I don't blame them, but I sure as hell blame him.
A nurse got the other arm on the first try. I am usually a very easy jab so I don't know what was wrong with that doctor, possibly apart from sheer incompetence.
Honestly, you should blame them. Patient advocacy is one of the primary responsibilities of the nurse, it’s their job to stand up to doctors. Docs only really have authority over nurses when it comes to their patients, they can’t get a nurse fired (usually).
That's fair. It was a long time ago and I think I remember one trying to step in, but very meekly and giving up quickly. It definitely seemed at the time that everyone was afraid of him and didn't want to make a fuss, me included.
It seems like nurses are getting much more training in being assertive and protecting patients in recent years, which is wonderful. Having someone in a perceived position of authority on your team makes a big difference.
My husband lost count around 20 tries until they ended up putting it in my neck. Everyone took their turn and tried everywhere. I genuinely looked like I got hit by a truck afterwards.
I once got poked by a student, I had to get a heavy metals test when I worked at a recycling center. I know she was new and learning, but god damn she stuck me like a pin cushion and then tried digging. I had a bruise the size of a football the next day.
Good God, you brought back memories of being stuck like 8 times trying to find a good vein the first time I went through chemo. Got a port soon after that and that thing was a godsend!
I can certainly agree with this as i donate plasma regularly. If I see my usual, i know its not gunna be painful....a new face and I instantly get nervous.
I agree. A good phlebotomist makes all the difference. Nobody should ever stick you more than twice but I know it happens all too often so I'm sorry about that and I commend you for all you've been through. It's not a perfect world so some people will always feel something but there are times when the patient and the technician can achieve perfect harmony and you get a ghost needle 😂 that's what I strive for every day but I'll settle for a tiny pinch and still be happy lol
As a patient - ultimately it doesn't matter. :) When we get our blood drawn it's usually not by choice either way. Not many people are getting stuck just to get stuck - know what I mean? Everyone, nurses included, have to start somewhere.
Yeah, they often told me that and it's the same as everytime a doc says "will only take a sec and you won't feel it / will not hurt anyway." That works with 4yo olds maybe.
It works for toddlers the first time. I spent a good deal of my time in the pediatrician's waiting room hiding UNDER THE TABLE where I'd run to as soon as he told my mom and I he was going to give me a "little bee sting". He lied (and I know, because I've since been stung ~15 times).
I don't believe in lying to a patient. I will never tell someone in office that they won't feel it. They shouldn't feel it in a perfect world but it's not a perfect world so I always say you might feel a pinch because usually, a pinch is all it is, and if they don't feel anything, they can be pleasantly surprised instead of unpleasantly surprised and never trust a medical professional's word again lol. It's important to set realistic expectations and if you exceed them, good. If not, at least you were honest.
It's unfortunately rare for patients to have that experience so I would never set that expectation in practice. I always prepare them to feel a pinch but it is actually true. You can't feel the space inside your vein and the needle is sharp enough that the only sensation you should feel is it entering your epidermal layer which feels like a pinch most of the time but there is a universe where you don't even feel that. Think about the times you've sliced yourself with a sharp razor and didn't feel it. It's like that. But a lot of people performing blood draws out there are just not doing a good job. Shout out to all the real deal phlebotomists and nurses out there who are showing people what a painless blood draw feels like.
I thought that too, having had it parroted at me throughout nursing school. Having since had a cardiac catheterization I assure you I felt that fucker going all the way up my arm. There was also soreness all along its path for a day afterward. Not accusing you of lying—it was quite a surprise to me, and I normally have a pretty high pain tolerance. I was warned that there would be a pinch at the point of insertion, but I did not expect to feel it once actually in.
You can definitely feel things touching the walls of your veins so I would assume a catheterization would absolutely be painful. I'm surprised they told you otherwise. Technically if a needle is placed perfectly in a vein for a blood draw, and inserted and removed perfectly, you won't feel it. That perfect scenario is not easy to come by unfortunately. I feel a lot of professionals performing blood draws are not doing it very well. People down voted the crap out of me because I said ilyou technically shouldn't feel it lol but I didn't explain myself too well I guess.
Ah. Sorry, misunderstood. I initially read this as one of those "but it doesn't hurt for the reason you think it does, so your complaint is invalid" posts. Reading comprehension ftw
Oh no it's ok not your fault. It's hard to articulate thru text sometimes and just as hard to comprehend. I've learned the hard way on here that if you say the wrong thing by accident people get irrationally angry lol.
It only stings if the technician doesn't let the alcohol dry completely or if they insert at a slightly off angle. In a perfect world, nobody would feel anything but not every stick can be a perfect stick. We are all human and it's very normal for some people to have a visceral reaction to the needle whether they feel anything or not. I've had my fair share of bad blood draws as a patient myself so I know the feeling of a needle going in in the worst way lol it's not a fun experience sometimes.
You’re downvoted because as patients, we know what it feels like to be have needles inserted. The benefit of this method is that you don’t have to rely on someone perfectly executing the “proper technique”. This is simple enough that nurses can do it. And that’s important because there are a lot of nurses, so many nurses that we can’t possibly guarantee that they’ll all be able to perfectly execute the “proper technique”. If we could make that guarantee, then we wouldn’t have seen this video because there wouldn’t be the desire to improve the technique.
I agree and I've been a patient as well. I never intended to invalidate anyone's experience. My comment was missing context and I should have elaborated which I eventually did in my other replies that nobody has down voted lol. I just didn't post that particular comment with enough care. I never guarantee a painless experience and am always interested in new innovation which is why I asked why exactly this technique is useful in the first place. Thank you for taking the time to reply respectfully. I never meant any harm.
If they have pain, something went wrong. A pinch of the skin surface is the most common sensation and most people wouldn't consider that painful. The problem is the amount of medical professionals that are not careful and use improper technique so most people associate a blood draw with pain, unfortunately. I was stuck hundreds of times in training so I know the difference between a good stick and a bad stick and a good stick really is painless.
I guess what you describe as a pinch is a mild form of pain. That's the sensation for me in most cases: very mild pain. I have had a few that were worse but nothing really bad.
I have had blood drawn so many times I don't honestly care how it feels anymore. At this point it's more annoying having to tell them I really am OK, go ahead and get it done.
I had one doctor who chickened out on it entirely because it turned out he was new and afraid of doing it wrong. I tried to tell him "it's OK, get your practice on me".
That's very good of you. Not everyone is willing to be the practice arm and trainees really do feel bad about putting patients in that position so good on you for making them feel comfortable. Honestly, the worst part is after the blood draw when it feels sore and tender.
Because it is just usually just a slight pinch unless the person doing is absolutely butchering it. Also if I told everyone it's going to be horrible I would be lying and everyone would be anxious.
Woah woah - just to be clear, I upvoted this user's post. I was adding on to their post with my reply, not refuting it. Please don't downvote this user.
Yeah, I'm not going to track down other comments. That's not how it works. Saying something that is contrary to my personal experience gets you a down vote. Decades of pokes by many people say you are wrong. It always hurts. How much is the only variable. But according to you, that was all bad technique. By every single person. I think I'm not that unlucky.
You don't have to track down all the comments. I thought I summed it up pretty well in my edit but anyway, I'm extremely sympathetic to everyone's experience and your pain is valid. I didn't say that people don't feel pain. What I said was that it's possible for people not to always feel pain and my hope is that it can be a painless experience someday for everyone but obviously everyone is different. Also, I didn't realize people down voted you just because they disagree with you. I thought that's what conversation is for. If I said something offensive or rude or hurtful, I understand a down vote but it's fine. Everyone is entitled to their feelings.
That's normal. I said with proper technique, meaning if done absolutely perfectly which is hard to achieve so most people will feel something. It was a response to the comments above mine so just take it with all the context, not as a stand alone statement.
As someone who also performs blood draws on the regular....i don't see the evidence behind this technique. The research I've done points to acupuncture. Dunno how I feel about merging both.
The quick in and out could potentially harm the patient, without mentioning the potential risks for over-peneteation and bleedingof the vein. If pain is an issue I think pinching the skin above the insertion site could potentially be beneficial as nerve cells are quite long (similar to a subq injection)
I have been stabbed with more needles than I can count, literally hundreds at this point, because I have an autoimmune and anemia and get iron infusions. Not once in my entire life has a needle jab been painless. I have no idea why you’re claiming that’s possible but it ain’t.
I'm saying it is technically possible but it is unfortunately not a common experience. Most people have experiences like you which I'm very sorry for. As a medical community we need to do better because I know firsthand that a painless blood draw is possible.
Maybe it's the perception of pain vs "a small pinch". For me, the pain is very mild in most cases and not worth mentioning. Some might describe it as painless.
The worst I tried was a nurse who was clearly angry and annoyed from the start, probably having a bad day. It definitely did not feel like she did it right. Left a huge bruise too. I can imagine it would be exactly the kind of experience that makes people scared of having blood drawn.
My last infusion, they had so much trouble that I wound up with four bruises, two on each arm, one of them like 3 inches long following the vein.
Another time a nurse screwed up the first stab, yanked it out, stabbed slightly over with the same needle, got pissed off and three everything in the table. Told another nurse “you deal with this” and stormed off.
To say I hate needles, and especially getting blood drawn, is an understatement. And it always hurts, far more than that stupid “small pinch”
Ya it's not slow ot place a line, my avg time was <40 sec from setup I think, this also is only for straight draws, no catheter placement which is the harder part of IV's for me.
Thank you. Takes me a couple seconds to insert a butterfly so throwing it at the patient seems unnecessary lol but some people said they've had this done and it was an amazing experience so I guess it has some purpose.
I would assume it would make relatively thin easy to hit people a few seconds faster and without pain, it's an interesting technique but rarely is a blood draw an "I can't miss this" situation, vs a butterfly 22ga in the right wrist because you absolutely gotta have something on this 600lb'er for access because your IO won't reach the bone. Also, am I the only motherfucker that has to feel every single vein even if I can see it?
Idk why you're being downvoted to hell, even this flying technique is sure to hurt even a little bit on some patients and I'm sure you could only do that in people with big enough veins anyways. In my experience inserting needles in veins every day, doing it slowly and gently is usually the best way for minimizing patient pain.
I think people were thinking I was invalidating their pain by saying that it shouldn't be the norm. My original comment didn't specify that I acknowledge it's painful for people but that it can be done painlessly. I've experienced painless sticks many times and I've had people tell me they felt nothing so I know it can be done but nobody is perfect all the time.
Lab tech here, lab assistant before that. >20 years doing blood draws.
Yes it’s possible to have a blood draw where the patient feels no pain. BUT it’s not on the tech to “do it properly” to feel no pain. Every patient is different and some will not feel anything with a really quick poke while others feel less pain with a slow insertion and pulling the skin tight. Some need both for it to be painless. Some experience pain no matter how it’s done. Without having a history with the patient there is no way for you to know or accommodate it.
So I find your comment regarding “doing it properly” very disingenuous.
Like I've explained in other comments, I meant that there is potential for a stick to be painless and I acknowledge that that won't be the case all the time or for every person. The world is not perfect. I tried to edit my comment to help people be less offended by what I said but obviously I didn't articulate well enough and people are still upset by it. I didn't mean any disrespect and I don't believe in one exact outcome for everyone, but the potential for everyone to have a good experience exists.
Quite possibly yes but I did clarify what I meant in my other replies and I edited the above reply because I clearly made a bunch of people upset and I didn't mean to. Your experience is absolutely valid.
I think people are down voting you because it's just not true for many / most people. Maybe you experience a very slight pinch, but that definitely isn't painless, and a lot of people experience way, way worse than that.
Dude, that'll be great if it was a perfect world by people are human and from the times I donated plasma. You feel the needle each time, albeit, differently from each person
Yes I clarified in my other comments that I meant in a perfect world and didn't mean "won't feel anything" completely literally, more of a figure of speech. Also, when donating plasma, a larger gauge needle is used so you will feel that. When it comes to a butterfly needle, I've personally experienced completely painless insertion during training and as a patient so it can be done.
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u/PositiveStress8888 Jun 10 '25
Check out this video from this search, flying needle technique https://g.co/kgs/Qa2GMMQ