P4P is Roberto Duran The Greatest at Brawling?

[u/Brendan_Frost]

I know brawling has a negative connotation among most boxing pundits. It's often used to describe as a tactic of fighters who favor brute force and slugging due to their lack of finesse and in-ring craftsmanship. However, some people in other forums have claimed that it has its place in boxing, especially in crucial moments that require it.

When it comes to brawling, I often hear that Duran is arguably the best at utilizing it, even though his skillset and defensive skills exceed the stereotypical brawler. Some would even go as far as to claim that he is the most technical and well-rounded brawler in boxing history, as oxymoronic as it may sound. Are there any other fighters who can brawl better than Duran in any place in history?

[u/Doofensanshmirtz]

You really can’t box Durán into one category.

He wasn’t just a brawler, nor strictly a counter-puncher, swarmer, or outboxer. He was simply Durán

Unlike most fighters, his style never fit cleanly into the sport’s archetypes. That’s because, on any given night, against any given opponent, Durán could reinvent himself. He could outbox you with patience and craft, or meet fire with fire and overwhelm you in the trenches. He could slip, weave, and counter with surgical precision, or flip the pressure back onto you until you were the one breaking rhythm.

Tie him up to stall? He’d punish you inside and turn clinches into his own weapon. Try to keep him at bay with the jab? He’d dismantle it, use the same tools against you, and suddenly the fight was on his terms.

That adaptability is what made him unique: he didn’t just brawl, he weaponized every aspect of boxing. Durán cannot be confined to a label. He’s simply Durán, one of the rare fighters in history who transcends styles, who transcends boxing itself

One of the rare fighters who can be labelled as an:

All-Time-Great.

[u/bobbykid → u/Doofensanshmirtz]

He was one of the most complete boxers in history in my opinion

[u/Brendan_Frost → u/Doofensanshmirtz]

I know, but what I'm asking if he's the best boxer at using brawling tactics.

[u/bobbykid → u/Brendan_Frost]

Not trying to be contrarian but I don't really think Duran ever used brawling tactics, or at least he didn't use them often. 

When I think of brawling I think of guys like Isaac Cruz or Ricardo Mayorga, or maybe to a lesser extent Pacquiao: guys who sacrificed defense and guile for forward pressure and power punches, guys who made fights ugly for the sake of it and who liked to trade punches. Duran's fights sometimes looked ugly at first glance because of how ferocious he was, but he often got hit way less than his opponents when he got them where he wanted them, and he was endlessly crafty at all ranges. Like if you watch sequences of Duran on the inside with Palomino or Davey Moore at full speed you might think "wow this is messy, they're brawling!" but if you slow it down, you see that Duran is using arm controls, head placement, foot placement, punch selection, and even punch throwing technique in a very, very clever way to dismantle his opponents. He fought on the inside not because he liked to trade, but because that was where he was least likely to trade while racking up points and damaging his opponents. He would often open up at midrange later in the fight after he had worn the other guy down with brilliant inside fighting. It's all very deliberate. Deliberate is the opposite of brawling in my opinion. You would never see guys like Cruz or Mayorga fighting so carefully and strategically.

[u/Solidis262 → u/Brendan_Frost]

I think you’re confusing looking like a brawler with actually being a brawler. If you watch his sparring or interviews he explains very well how he while he throws a punch he uses his forearms and elbows to disrupt his opponents punches and thus getting off his attack while disrupting theirs at the same time. Thats not a brawler, thats just an extremely smart pressure fighter / inside boxer.

If you wanna see actual brawling tactics look at pitbull, or mayorga. it may look the same at first glance but when pitbull throws a punch, there’s nothing more to it. it’s not a way to disrupt the offense, nor to frame, nor anything of the like. it’s just a pucnh

[u/Visual_Hedgehog_1135 → u/Brendan_Frost]

He was frequently at a reach disadvantage, even at lightweight so "brawling" for him was a way to cut distance and get his offense off.

He was quite aggressive and wild up close but very "cute" at the same time. You could say he was the best at "brawling" given how technically superb he was. Brawlers in boxing aren't usually equated with technical excellence.

But I have always seen him as an aggressive counter-puncher + in-fighter hybrid. He didn't stalk his opponents behind a high guard, methodically cutting off the distance like JCC or GGG. He pivoted off his back foot and baited boxers into throwing so he could counter and get on the inside to get his combinations off. He was always more boxer than brawler but individual qualities of each style upgraded the other when he used them.

[u/SouthernWino]

Duran wasn't a brawler. He was a high pressure boxer and liked to work inside. He also had really good defensive skills. Did he get a little dirty and rough? Yes.

[u/Bruce-7892 → u/SouthernWino]

Wish I was old enough to see the 4 kings era. Now we got Tank vs Jake Paul 😢

[u/GBV_GBV_GBV → u/Bruce-7892]

On the other hand, you would be my age now.

[u/SouthernWino → u/GBV_GBV_GBV]

True that!

[u/stephen27898]

No as he wasnt really a brawler. He was actually very technically refined and really had many strings to his bow.

If you want someone who is a brawler you would be looking at someone like Jake Lamotta, Jack Dempsey, Sandy Saddler (he was extremely dirty).

Lamotta used brawling tactics to get a win over someone who many would consider to be the greatest P4P of all time. And unlike Duran he didnt really have any other options. Duran could mix some brawling tactics with boxing, people like Dempsey or Lamotta had one route and one route only to victory.

[u/VacuousWastrel → u/stephen27898]

I wouldn't call saddler a brawler at all - he was a cautious, strategic, technical fighter with good defence. His techniques didn't look pretty (long guard rarely does), and he fouled a lot, but i don't think he intentionally got into brawls.

[u/stephen27898 → u/VacuousWastrel]

Maybe im thinking of the wrong guy then. I swear he was the guy who beat Pep by basically just rushing him and jumping in on him.

[u/Big_Donch]

Damn I just woke up and thought the title said RIP Roberto Duran

[u/OriginalAardvark4349 → u/Big_Donch]

Yooooo

[u/NWOfourlyfe420]

Brawling implies reckless offense and limited defense. I’m thinking along the lines of a Rocky and a young undisciplined Pac. You’re gonna keep clipped but you’ll get yours type.

Duran was an artist. Inside fighting, angles, wrestling, guard manipulation, even using his head as a tool. He’s an inside fighter if he had to be categorized

[u/kushmonATL]

u/Doofensanshmirtz this one's for yoy

[u/Doofensanshmirtz → u/kushmonATL]

About time for people to start thinking of me as that one creep who's obsessed with Duran

[u/NeoCortex963 → u/Doofensanshmirtz]

Not the only one! Me and you are the number one Duran fanboys lol. I'm a bit too obsessed with defensively skilled aggressive fighters

[u/SmilinMercenary]

Henry Armstrong deserves to be in the conversation.

[u/Brendan_Frost → u/SmilinMercenary]

He's a swarmer, the greatest swarmer.

[u/TemporaryCollar165]

After reading through these comments, I wonder what everyone’s definition of brawling is? Does it imply technical deficiencies? Is it the willingness to trade and potentially take damage? Or is it just the level of aggression shown?

[u/NotRedlock]

Best infighter, not the best brawler

[u/anakmager]

What is technical brawling?

[u/armourofgod666]

If you want pure brawling, it's probably Aaron Pryor. Duran would switch between outside boxing, mid range, inside fighting. Sometimes he'd box then rhythm change and collide into you etc. Pryor just kinda went after it.

[u/Ace_FGC]

Him and Chávez are close but I’d probably edge Duran 

[u/Tricky-Ad-4823]

Duran was extremely technical and great at creating angels. Damn I hate casual fans. They see a fighter come forward and they just assume there is no skill involved

[u/Brendan_Frost → u/Tricky-Ad-4823]

When it comes to brawling, I often hear that Duran is arguably the best at utilizing it, even though his skillset and defensive skills exceed the stereotypical brawler. Some would even go as far as to claim that he is the most technical and well-rounded brawler in boxing history, as oxymoronic as it may sound. Are there any other fighters who can brawl better than Duran in any place in history?

Line 2

[u/Tricky-Ad-4823 → u/Brendan_Frost]

I’m just gonna block you

[u/BigL0LZ → u/Tricky-Ad-4823]

Cuz you can’t read? That’s pretty tuff