r/Boxing • u/Brendan_Frost • 1d ago
Has Pressure Fighting (Swarming) Died in Boxing?
Is it me, or has the art of pressure fighting died in boxing? Other than GGG, who's pretty much inactive and close to retiring, I have yet to see any modern fighter employ such a come forward tactic/style, especially in the heavyweight division. Swarming is pretty much gone in the HW division. Such a pity since old heavyweights frequently employed such style; Marciano, Tyson, Dempsey, Frazier, Tua, and Norton come to mind.
Are there any fighters today that employ the style of these aforementioned men, particularly in the HW division?
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u/Fightingspirit12345 1d ago
Pit bull cruz
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u/reddit_man_6969 1d ago
That was my first thought as well. Not as successful as some of the other guys being listed, but definitely more of a pure pressure fighter
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u/justusinreddit 1d ago
You must not have watched Beterbiev then
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u/stephen27898 1d ago edited 23h ago
He isnt a swarmer. He is more of a front footed boxer puncher.
A swarmer is all out pressure all the time. Swarmers have one gear and one gear alone. Forward as hard and fast as they can. Their attack is getting in your chest, their defence is getting in your chest. Everything is about getting on top of you and give you no time or space.
A great example of this is actually Frazier vs Foreman 1. Frazier even when hurt, he was still trying to swarm as that was what he did.
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u/phinvest69 17h ago
Are Bivol and Usyk swarmers? In your face pressure for every second of 12 rounds
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u/stephen27898 17h ago
No. Usyk bounces in and out of range. He also fights on the back foot and counters. He is a complete fighter. Bivol also tends to work from a range.
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u/phinvest69 16h ago
Got it so swarmers are always in range?
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u/stephen27898 16h ago edited 14h ago
Swarmers are always inside fighters.
I cant think of a single fighter who swarmed from the outside. I dont even really know how that would look.
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u/Dazzling_Challenge55 22h ago
I think you're referring to slugger more like. Swarmer can also be really technical while pressuring other fighter. Beterbiev can definitely be called a swarmer. Even now he routinely throw upward of 700 punches
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u/Brendan_Frost 1d ago
I don't think Beterbiev's a swarmer.
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u/stephen27898 23h ago
I love how I basically said the same thing as you and I got upvoted and you got downvoted.
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u/sword_ofthe_morning 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why are you getting downvoted for this?
Beterbiev is a pressure fighter, sure. But not a swarmer. The two are different. A swarmer is a pressure fighter. But a pressure fighter is not always a swarmer.
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u/escudonbk The Champ is Here 1d ago
If he isn't a swarmer then what is he exactly?
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u/Brendan_Frost 1d ago
From another forum, I hear people claiming that he's a boxer-puncher or a technical brawler. By this point, I don't even understand the semantics about boxing styles anymore.
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u/TheGamersGazebo 1d ago
Because everyone boxes differently. People, especially champions, don't learn styles, they just bix their own way, and we use terms like swarmer to describe their style. But if you don't actually watch the boxing yourself then you won't be able to distinguish the parts of a boxer than make them a swarmer. You can be a swarmer, while also being a brawler, while also being a counterpuncher. None of those are exclusive. Your trying to hard to shoehorn these guys into roles, but this isn't football. People don't play a position, they just fight their own style.
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u/DonWop1 1d ago
Beterbiev is a textbook pressure fighter/swarmer. Hes on his man from the opening bell and he’s always throwing, feinting or getting in position to do one of the two.
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u/clue_the_day 23h ago
No he's not. He's a puncher, just like OP said. He fights nothing like Frazier or Tyson.
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u/escudonbk The Champ is Here 1d ago
Maybe you should watch boxing instead of hearing about it on the forums. I'd say Beterbiev is an upright pressure fighter.
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u/moonwalkerHHH 12h ago
I always thought those labels are dumb af. Maybe useful when used to describe boxing styles a long time ago, but nowadays, the art of boxing is way more sophisticated to describe them using such outdated labels
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u/Delicious-Item6376 1d ago
I don't think you know what you're talking about. Beterbiev is a textbook pressure fighter. I can't think of a single fight of his where he's backpedaling or counter fighting.
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u/Top_Profession_5268 1d ago
Well Chesora, Beterbiev, Mbili, Zepeda, Chocholatito, Chihuahua and Yafai are a few I can name off the top of my head I guess that fit this category
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u/stayhappystayblessed 50-0 in the streets btw boxing is not going to die anytime soon. 1d ago
Gary antuanne russell?
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u/renis_h 1d ago edited 1d ago
I dont think it's dieing by any means, as it generally is one of the more fan friendly styles to watch if you're getting into boxing. Modern boxers that use this style effectively include:
Beterbiev
Subriel Matias
William Zepeda
Navarrete
Nick Ball
Eduardo Nuñez
Sebastian Fundora (he seems to be going through a slight change in style though if he's last fight is anything to go by)
Chocolatito (don't know if he's still actively boxing though)
Edit: When considering the HW division, I feel like the main reason a pressure style doesn't work as well at HW is because the era of the athletic HW is kinda gone, at least in America, as most of the great potential HWs are being taken up in America by American Football or Basketball. The problem is that for a pressure style, you need to be pretty damn athletic, as you have to be fast to close the distance well, have quick hand speed to punch and put your hands back to defend from an incoming punch, and then also have the cardio to be able to continuously barrel forward, throwing punches and wearing down your opponent. The heavier you get, the harder it is to do this, and this is especially true with cardio.
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u/stephen27898 23h ago edited 21h ago
I dont know if I agree with the analysis that you need to be athletic to be a swarmer. You need stamina, toughness, determination and extreme belief in what you are doing. Usually swarmers use these tactics to slow down and trap athletically superior fighters.
You do get athletic swarmers but Frazier was not even close to the most athletic guy in his division, neither was Lamotta, or Marciano. Swarmers really are fighters who break boxing down to certain intangibles. They try and level the battlefield so to speak by taking "boxing" out of the equation as much as they can.
We also have athletic heavyweights from the UK and Europe and none of them really end up being swarmers. We have big guys with good work rates but they dont really swarm.
I wouldnt really call GGG a swarmer as I think there was more to him than that but he certainly could and did use those tactics and I wouldnt have called him all that athletic.
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u/renis_h 21h ago
Fair point, whenever I think of a swarmer admittedly Manny Pacquiao came to mind, and he had the hand speed, quickness and stamina in his early years. You are right though that a swarmer almost has to have more of a mindset than physical attributes.
I do feel like stamina is still a big requirement though, and this seems to be something that the guys at HW have sort of forgotten about, which is proven by Usyk as he beats a lot of the bigger guys by making them work a lot harder than they usually would, which leads to them being overworked and eventually outlanded. The HW of today seem to be more focused on efficiency and only showing activity in bursts rather than constant pressure. This is somewhat disproven by Chisora and Miller (just don't mention the PEDs), but they haven't had the same level of success as the pressure fighters of the past.
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u/stephen27898 21h ago
But he can make them work that much harder because he is so good technically. For instance if you threw Frazier in with todays heavyweights. Even if you gave him a few extra inches and pounds I dont think he would actually do all that well.
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u/renis_h 20h ago
I can't really speak for that as I didn't really see Fraziers fights, I have second hand information from others, but I tend to find that if a fighter is loved by most fans, the fans feel that they could do really well in any generation you put them in.
This is the same way they talk about Mike Tyson when he was in his hay day.
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u/Onionrung555 1d ago
I’m surprised no one has mentioned infighting. If you watch boxing of the past, they allowed for a lot more in fighting, dirty boxing and repositioning. Refs now are quick to break.
I gaurantee during the time of the 4 Kings if Ryan Garcia would have turned his back in the clinch like he did against Haney, they would have let Haney keep working or at least given more warnings to Garcia.
Bring back more time infighting and you’ll see more Duran type fighters. Personally I love that stuff and wish they let them work more with the hand positioning.
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u/Ubykrunner 22h ago
This. Every attempt at closing the distance to start a fight in the pocket gets automatically turned into ugly clinches that referees block immediately.
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u/Big_Donch YouTube: Big Donch 1d ago
Swarming is a dangerous style because you’ll take more shots. Today’s boxing is more defensive, which I ain’t saying is bad
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u/StephenColbert27 1d ago
I'd argue that Usyk is a highly technical pressure-fighter. He just applies pressure with his footwork as much as his punches.
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u/reddit_man_6969 1d ago
I feel like heavyweights are so big nowadays that they’re all lumberers to a pretty large extent
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u/Astrocalles 1d ago
Kabayel in HW is a classical swarmer for me.
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u/Brendan_Frost 1d ago
It was satisfying how he neutralized Sanchez's counterpunching skills through sheer pressure.
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u/stephen27898 1d ago edited 23h ago
I do think the swarming style has died. Even someone like a GGG was more methodical about it. I think with how well trained a lot of modern boxers are, especially now the eastern Europeans are so present at the higher weight classes. I just think that kind of style leads to you taking a lot of damage and getting picked apart.
At the lower weights I think it can be hard to be a swarmer due to the technical proficiency of a lot of guys. A lot of elite guys just cant really be pressured or rushed. At heavyweight, big guys cant usually keep up the rate of work needed to be a swarmer and if you try and swarm these bigger guys you risk ending up like Frazier vs Foreman.
At heavyweight the only real swarmer to my mind is Miller. And he's decent but he isnt part of the elite and his style relies heavily on his own toughness.
Dubois maybe has swarming elements to his style but he lacks the head movement to get inside and he also lacks the mental toughness it takes to be swarmer. To be a swarmer you have to be willing to lose 5 rounds of the trot while taking a beating. Because you know eventually the guy will slow down. You have to believe that your pressure will tell at some point. Dubois when he is struggling to find the target, checks out mentally IMO.
As a result its a small subset of a small subset of fighters who could even get that style to work. Honestly if you have other options, you pick those.
Usyk is another one who has swarming elements to his style. He can certainly get on top of you and keep on you until you break down. But he does it in a far more technical and defensively sound way. I think that is where the swarming style has gone. Lomachenko for instance certainly had swarming elements to his style.
Swarming has become something that has been absorbed into other fighters styles rather than a main style that someone uses IMO.
Also something that must be added is the shift from 15 rounds to 12. That was 9 more minutes for a swarmer to get to someone. 9 minutes in boxing is a long time and it makes a real difference in what you can get away with and what you cant. Non title fights in the past were 12 rounds, now they tend to be 10. This also makes breaking people down with pressure harder.
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u/Bruce-7892 1d ago
I'd consider Richard Torrez a current pressure fighter. Why the F are you obsessed with swarmer's? This is your 2nd related post in like 20 minutes 😆
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u/shibapenguinpig 12h ago
Reading the comments and realizing most people have no idea what swarming really is
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u/stayhappystayblessed 50-0 in the streets btw boxing is not going to die anytime soon. 12h ago
Swarming is like a pressure fighter but with really high volume right and a lot of times really up in your face right?
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u/JeremiahWuzABullfrog 1d ago
The average heavyweight has gotten bigger, which means having a gas tank that supports pressure fighting has gotten rarer.
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u/shadowsteppe 1d ago
Joe Joyce is a classical swarmer
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u/stephen27898 23h ago
Is he? I have seen the man box from range and move around plenty of times. Look at him vs Dubois. The guy just fought from range and stuck and jab on Dubois.
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u/Miserable-End9316 1d ago
I loved golovkin’s pressure!! Also beterbiev is a pressure and a swarmer boxer.
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u/SSJ5Autism 1d ago
It’s still very much there, but at the elite level, counterpunchers eat up swarmers when they’re at equal levels.
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u/anakmager 20h ago
Pressure fighting is incredibly common, especially for Mexican boxers
What is (almost) dead is inside-fighting-- the style that employs the clinch in an offensive way, almost like boxing mixed with wrestling.
Andre Ward was the last to do that in an elite level. Julian Williams had that style but he didn't stay at championship level for long
Lomachenko displayed elite infighting and clinch work but didn't really do if often enough to be labeled an infighter
Closest fighter today maybe Cool Boy Steph, and Fury sometimes
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u/YasuoAndGenji 13h ago
I think the term swarming has been largely mixed with pressure fighting which is not correct imo. There are different types of pressure fighting. Usyk pressures with feints and movement, overwhelming people until they get tired, while it's pressure it's not a swarm. Canelo pressures with footwork and power but relies on hard hitting single shots, pressure fighter but not a swarmer. GGG was not a swarmer either, he was an old style pressure fighter who built up damage round after round and tries not to waste punches and instead plays with the opponents defense with different touches to play with the guard.
A swarmer is something like Juan Diaz, in your face throwing punch after punch not really caring about any of them in particular, only one gear and that's forward ready to throw like 5 punches. GGG was a pressure fighter but he also has legitimately great boxing skills and an underrated defense. A swarmer relies on high volume to overwhelm the opponent, I Don't think there is currently a swarmer type of fighter at heavyweight as due to the weight each punch carries you can't really afford to open yourself up to get hit by trying to swarm.
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u/Doofensanshmirtz Bujia Zapata > Ricardo Lopez 1d ago
I think that the techniques used by the Old Timers whilst swarming, such as footwork spurts (See Durán Vs Leonard Round I for example) or fake punches (basically, more exaggerated feints) have died down today, mostly because there's no one alive to teach them properly (aside from Durán), rule changes regarding the clinches and the fighters/coaching themselves.
There is no way Swarmers will be able to bloom properly if the rules regarding the clinch become more strict (letting them fight out of it for example, instead of instantly yelling TIME and breaking it)
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u/Wavepops 1d ago
There’s plenty. Spence Josh Taylor Shawn porter loma were all in their primes while GGG was still fighting. Benavidez Fundora Beterbiev
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u/Top_Huckleberry3255 1d ago
Swarming style needs toughness. You need to be prepared to get hit, and often. The legendary example is of Marciano, where he had his nose hanging from his face but still managed to knock out Ezzard Charles.
I think most boxers and their trainers today prioritize safety as well (which they can and should), so swarmer is not what they go for.
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u/Formal-Inevitable-50 1d ago
Matias beterbiev Benavides Fundora Cruz Inoue plenty fighters still fight heavy pressure. Heavy weight though not as much Zhang and Bakole.
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u/Still_Water44 1d ago
That style of requires conditioning that is better than their opponent. So their careers are short lived, and they start fading at 25-26. Which is why the boxing superstars love to get in the ring with an aging pressure fighter
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u/ZayDoee130 1d ago
Nahh just less swarmers.
that type of fighting is not substantial for the long run or doesn’t work against American boxers.
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u/Verstappenfan133 1d ago
I would say Chisora and Dubois are pretty much pressure fighters. For Dubois obviously it didn't work against Usyk but against Joshua and Hrgovic he was always pressing forward on the jab and looping shots. Usyk can fight a pressure fight with his feints and footwork. Fury fought a pressure style against Wilder. Zepeda is a pressure fighter. So is Tank Davis usually. As is Canelo. Benavidez, Beterbiev, bam Rodriguez, Inoue, etc. I suppose it depends on your definition of a pressure fighter but to me it's one who usually applies pressure either to overwhelm their opponent or force an error
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u/iodisedsalt 1d ago
As long as referees continue to not deduct points for holding, many modern boxers will use the clinch as a "get out of jail free card".
Each time they struggle with a swarmer, they just grab on and hold, and wait for the referee to come save them. This disadvantages swarmers and pressure infighters, and favors outfighters.
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u/Adviseformeplz 23h ago
Didn’t we just get William Zepeda vs Shakur like two months ago
I’d consider Beterbiev a technical pressure fighter/swarm style fighter. If I’m not mistaken he threw like around 1k punches (someone correct me if I’m wrong cause that’s a wild stat outside of the lower weight divisions) during the first fight again Bivol.
I think that HW boxing has evolved more into shot selection and landing power punches. Jab, jab, try to find opening, land something big vs jab, jab, haymaker, haymaker, haymaker.
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u/AltKite Sunny Edwards Superfan 22h ago
I don't think so.
Usyk employed relentless front-foot pressure against Fury. It might not be your typical swarmer style, but I think it applies. It might not be super common at HW, where stamina is a real issue, but it's definitely been Chisora's style for years and Kabayel I think qualifies. Even Joe Joyce, a very slow swarmer but a swarmer none the less.
Beterbiev has a refined swarmer style, front-foot pressure, high-output, loves being in the pocket.
Nick Ball is an obvious example, as is William Zepeda.
You could also include fighters like Munguia, Fundora, Mbilli, Ortiz, Espinoza, Matias, Nakano, Estrada and many others.
They might not all be prototypical swarmers, but high output, front-foot pressure fighters are everywhere.
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u/Nervous_Pay906 21h ago
He's talking about heavyweights. The reason is that the swarming style leads to a short career.
Its hard on your knees, shoulders, and hips...and because of that folks w that style flame out earlier. Its unfortunate but its true
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u/fadeddreams555 If Crawford beats Canelo at 168lb, he surpasses Mayweather 21h ago
Beterbiev and Spence are pressure fighters.
At heavyweight, the closest thing was Andy Ruiz. Lol.
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u/YoutubePRstunt 18h ago
Uh…Benavidez?
He even has that methodical pace like GGG but will fire off on you the moment he finds a pattern.
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u/iamameatpopciple 18h ago
Not boxer, more kickboxing and MMA and recently retired
But Melvin "I live for this shit" Manhoef.
Want to throw a hook manhoef style?
Put on your Leather Gladiator Shorts, get into your optimal range, get into your power stance, load that fucking arm up like popeye the sailor, make sure your feet are planted because your not about to throw some bitch shit, get that body rotating because again you ain't throwing no arm punches. That other hand they tell you to always keep up and that chin that is supposed to stay tucked?
You aint got no bitch in your blood, you aint scared of being hit like Jillian Jackson was, be a man, use the other hand for more rotational force and as for your chin just let it hang out there because your already letting your balls hangout with this punch so the chin might as well also.
I love Jullian Jackson as well but watch him throw strikes vs manhoef and its clear one of them thought the first rule of boxing was a rule, the other thought it was a joke.
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u/Hard-4-Jesus 17h ago
Well... as time advances, boxing styles get more nuanced. Currently, the quintessential swarmer is Pitbull Cruz, Matias, Fundora, Duarte, and Zepeda. And then more "educated" swarmers, would be like Beterbiev, Benavidez, and Spence.
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u/GrapefruitFar1242 15h ago
Inoue kiiiind of fits this style. He’s a boxer puncher but when he switches up he’s a mean bastard who overwhelms opponents with consistent combos.
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u/CalvinsStuffedTiger 7h ago
Maybe I’m not understanding what swarming fighters mean but I’m shocked that David Benavidez isn’t mentioned in this thread.
watch this video and tell me that Benevidez’ game isn’t always going forward and then unloading a swarm of punches when opponent on the ropes/in the corner to break them
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u/TheFreeHawk12 6h ago
usyk is pretty good pressure fighter but you wouldnt notice it because he doesnt rely on his chin to stat on the front foot
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u/Finito-1994 4h ago
Wasn’t Juan Diaz a swarmer?
His fight against Marquez was him throwing nonstop punches until Marquez stopped him
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u/rajagopal2001 1d ago
I think the style just evolved. If you fight like Fraizer today you probably won’t do very well healthwise. Hell, even in his time, fraizer took ungodly amount of damage.
Why be a swarmer when you can be a boxer puncher. Hell, Manny was a grade A swarmer in his FW days but as he grew, he evolved between a boxer puncher and swarmer type of fighter
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u/escudonbk The Champ is Here 1d ago
Sean Porter and Errol Spence were both pretty dedicated pressure fighters, and if you haven't seen it go watch them fight each other. Shit was a fucking banger.