r/Carpentry • u/Termin8tor • 8d ago
How bad are these studs on a load bearing wall?
Hi all,
I'm doing a kitchen reno on my FiL's house, my wife and I live with him and I've pulled off the dry wall as part of that. To our horror I've discovered six split studs on a load bearing wall. Go figure. Anyway I’m trying to figure out the safest/code compliant way to deal with it.
A few details about the structure:
- It’s a supporting wall under a vaulted ceiling, single floor, no attic in the kitchen area and no basement beneath. It's built on a concrete foundation/subfloor.
- The ceiling joists/rafters mostly land between studs on the top plate, not directly above them with the exception of one. They're marked with pencil (not obvious in the photos) and verified with a stud finder.
- The wall has a double top plate, deliberately split at the vent for a range/stove.
- Several studs are visibly bowed, and six are split.
- Drywall hasn't been off since 1983, lol.
My questions:
- Is the best practice to sister a new stud, then remove the old one, and finally install a full length replacement?
- Since the joists are bearing on the top plate and not the studs directly, is there any added concern about doing stud by stud replacement, assuming installation of a sister stud with a snug fit before replacement?
- Would it be smarter/acceptable to leave the sister in place permanently (essentially doubling up studs) instead of pulling the old one?
- What's the general process in the trade when coming across this kind of mess?
- What do I need to do to bring this up to modern code? I think I should use metal screw/nail guards over the wiring chases and should use reinforcement stud shoes over the notches in the studs as they look like around 50% of the material is missing.
Photos are attached, and boy howdy it's a mess.
For what it's worth, I'm in Southern California, USA, so figure California/U.S building code applies. Oh, and I'm aware the wiring isn't up to code. That was one of the major reasons for pulling the dry wall.
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u/Djsimba25 8d ago
Lol I bet theyve been split since the day they got put in.
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u/Termin8tor 7d ago
Possibly, but they have been subjected to 40 odd years of California quake activity.
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u/Ill-Running1986 8d ago
If this was my house, I’d sleep fine.
If you want to sister studs, just add them in… don’t remove old — you’ll eff up your stucco. Don’t worry about where the joists land.
Nail plates are necessary when wire/pipe is within 1-1/4” of the edge of the stud. I don’t see any examples where you need them for electrical, but yes for that pipe.
If you don’t trust me or any other rando on the internet, just ask your building inspector their opinion when they come by for your rough inspection.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 7d ago
I second this rando. Though I'd probably put the plates on general principles
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u/dankstanktankbank 8d ago
Sister onto any that seem compromised. Do not remove the compromised studs. Nail plates as Ill-running1986 said. You’ll be right lad.
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u/ManLikeBob91 8d ago
If your really worried about it just line it with ply or osb before you plasterboard it
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u/EdwardBil 8d ago
What's behind the tar paper? Is there a full concrete wall there? If so and your hosts are sitting on it then that's not even load bearing.
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u/ThirstyFloater 8d ago
Omg you are right! This is most likely just a partition!!!! Lmao. Do not do anything to this wall if that is a foundation wall behind it. Edward has the best observation/comment in this thread!
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u/Charlesinrichmond 7d ago
I respectfully disagree given the tar paper, area and the J bolt. I think it's tar paper behind stucco.
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u/ThirstyFloater 7d ago
Ok that’s fair. Could be wrong but that’s key info to this equation. Kinda cause either way wall is actually fine. But if that’s a foundation then it’s a no doubter
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u/Termin8tor 7d ago
Yep, you got it! It's the exterior kitchen wall. Tar paper + stucco. Vaulted ceiling joists meet the top plate so I'm assuming it's load bearing for that reason.
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u/jnp2346 7d ago
This is most likely the case. If the OP is really worried about it, just sister a couple of new studs to the existing ones. Leave the old ones there as others have said.
If you don’t know/aren’t comfortable with disconnecting and pulling the electrical wire out of the wall temporarily, so you don’t have to notch the new studs, don’t bother. Notching the studs more than 3/4” deep takes away a lot of their structural integrity. Since the wire runs through holes and the existing studs in the center, you would be forced to notch halfway across the stud if you did not pull the wire back.
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u/Cryogenicist 7d ago
Don’t remove any of the old ones! There are likely screws driven into them from the other side of the wall. No harm to leave them
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u/New-Border3436 8d ago
Looks serviceable to me. The cracks in the studs look like checks. Shallow cracks that occur naturally in wood as it dries. Drywall it. If it bothers you that much add new studs next to existing. But really not necessary.
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u/AndyMagandy 8d ago
That’s why you cover it with drywall. Plus, buildings are typically designed with a factor of safety that is twice of what is required o be safe. Seems like you’re fine.
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u/RunStriking9864 8d ago
Nice old growth framing? Not sure what that metal box thing is but that’s about the only questionable thing I see.
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u/Mundane_Ad_4240 7d ago edited 7d ago
Generally speaking, we use actual header stock 6x6/6x8 (occasionally steel beams) for load bearing walls. (Edit* I meant we use like glulam/lvl as well for load bearing)That more than likely isn’t a real load bearing wall. Could be helping support from the concrete wall behind it, or just framed out in order to drywall it.
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u/Termin8tor 7d ago
This is a track home in so-cal. It's definitely a load bearing wall. The outside is clad in stucco and the ceiling joists meet the top plate.
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u/Mundane_Ad_4240 7d ago
Oof, I see. You could temporarily wall behind it and then reframe it out if you feel. It seems like it’d be holding for a bit longer without issue though.
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u/Mundane_Ad_4240 7d ago
I currently build in California on the coast, just FYI
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u/Charlesinrichmond 7d ago
really, you don't double/triple your 2x for load bearing?
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u/Mundane_Ad_4240 7d ago
We usually put a single underneath, to stand the wall up and then fasten the beam to it. Other than that we double top plate every wall though.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 7d ago
oh I meant the headers. Never seen a 6x6 header.
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u/Mundane_Ad_4240 7d ago
Gotcha, I completely misspoke as well. I meant glulam/occasional lvl for load bearing and then 6x for headerstock
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u/Charlesinrichmond 7d ago
oh I got that - it's the 6x that's interesting, we'd always build that up
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u/Mundane_Ad_4240 7d ago
I think my outfit I work for is just super anal about things so he does stuff a certain way and kind of gives you backhanded comments if you build a different way. I’m from the Midwest and we use traditional framing methods and terminology so working out here has been a learning curve to say the least.
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u/error_404_JD 7d ago
No issue
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u/Termin8tor 7d ago
Yeah, I'm seeing folks in this post say that a fair bit and I'm not so sure. See, this is for an exterior load bearing wall. It's holding the weight of the roof and vaulted ceiling.
The other side of the wall is clad in stucco.
Thing is, a number of the studs are split, some from plate to plate. Now this is a kitchen Reno and I need to mount wall cabinets and base cabinets to the studs. I'm thinking that the extra load poses a risk of tearing the existing split studs out and collapsing that side of the house. Not something I'm particularly keen on happening.
The work also needs to be inspected by the city, which is why my post mentions code compliance.
I've decided to apply stud shoes to the damaged studs where more than 50% has been notched away, e.g. around the gas pipes and sister new studs to the split ones.
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u/Illustrious-End-5084 8d ago
Various other trades have just butchered it. I bet it was perfectly fine when the chippy made it. Just sister (plant alongside ) some of the split ones. No drama
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u/ThirstyFloater 8d ago
Yea this is all not a big deal. Sister if need be but with the horizontal wires you will be notching and the improvement is really for your mental rather than any actual improvement of the structure. Just board it back up. You good to go
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u/-ohsnap- 8d ago
They look pretty good, if you are concerned sister a few into some that you have a concern for.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 7d ago
I'm not in love with this, but it looks fine.
No need to remove anything if you want to sister, but utilities. And its always good to sister.
pull wires etc, fix framing, put it back. If you want to really improve it for earthquakes I'd guess interior plywood sheathing.
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u/Fuzzy_Profession_668 8d ago
Pull wiring and sister the whole wall correctly and go to bed with 2 pillows under your head
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u/MattyB113 8d ago
Can you just build a new wall and lose 4 inches in the length of the room? Or am I missing something?
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u/Termin8tor 8d ago
Yeah, that's an external load bearing wall to a vaulted ceiling so that isn't an option.
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u/Ande138 8d ago
Looks like it has been doing a good job for a long time.