Contracts: 1e or 2e?

[u/moonwhisperderpy]

TLDR; what are your pros and cons of 1e and 2e contracts? What do you like, what you don't, what would you change?

I am about to run a Changeling game, but I want to attempt to homebrew a version that takes the best of both editions.

I am currently stuck on Contracts, specifically Arcadian ones. I can't choose whether to use the 1e system or 2e, or how to blend the two. Each has some pros and cons in my opinion:

First edition Contracts Pros: * divided by theme rather than Regalia. Elementals have Contracts of Elements, Beasts have Contracts of Fang&Talon. This makes more sense to me than Might of Terrible Brute being more favored by Elementals rather than Ogres. * wide amount of material from 1e books * some lists are Universal, and it's easier to add a new thematic list

Cons: * linear progression, where powers need to be purchased in sequence * Each list has only 5 powers * some powers are very narrow in scope

Second edition Contracts Pros: * generally more flexible to use * more flexible to be reflavored by different characters as well. Characters can buy out of seeming contracts, after all. Some Contracts are very flavor-specific though. * picked individually, players get the powers they like instead of having to go through a sequence * introduces the extra seeming benefits, which are like little upgrades that can be purchased, although I don't find it always a good design. For instance, some seeming benefits radically change the whole premise of the Contract (for example, using Overpowering Dread, standing in the shadows, to... Swoon the target with the Fairest benefit?) * I have no problems with Court Contracts

Cons: * I don't like the division in Regalia, which are divisions by function instead of theme. So now by default Elementals are the heavy hitters and Ogres are the protectors, for instance, instead of leaving the choice of "party role" to the players. And somehow Contracts which are resonant with a seeming's theme are not always favored by that character because they're in a different Regalia. Shield Contracts feel very little ogre-ish to me. * 2e contracts are often updated versions of 1e ones, taken from all books and supplements. Which means that, while Regalia are divisions by function, they include a mix a contracts from a wide range of different themes. Mastermind Gambit was originally from the 1e Contracts of the Board and several Mirror Contracts are originally from Contracts of Reflection. And they are very tied to their flavor. * as mentioned, some seeming benefits radically change the contract, instead of being just upgrades on the basic premise. To the point they could almost be different contracts, with different flavors and loopholes.

I don't know wether I should choose one system or the other. I was thinking of attempting to update the 1e lists with 2e contracts, but it's not that straightforward. Contracts of Stone for example have almost no correspondence with any 2e versions. Or some have been merged together into a single contract, that can fit multiple themes.

What do you think? What do you like best about 1e and 2e contracts, and what do you think doesn't work? How would you blend the two?

[u/Gacha_Pawn]

So! I actually ran into a similar debate and went with 2e, then updated the 1e ones I wanted into the system. 2e is just vastly more flexible.

You mentioned that you feel regalia divides by function instead of theme. But having read through all of the 2e books, regalia is just a different type of theming. And what's more, there's rules so that you can just create your own contracts and even entire regalia.

Shield regalia is defensive because that's the theme of the symbol shield. But the lost aren't limited to one regalia. They get to pick a secondary regalia which is just as innate. So if I wanted an ogre that was also a brute, I might have them also take Sword. Or even Thorn. If I want a changeling that has a silver tongue but it's not a Fairest, they can always take Crown or Coin. And you can buy an out of seeming benefit cheaply, then choose which effects to apply. If a benefit isn't listed that means you get to create one.

Most of the 1e contracts are completely outclassed by contacts in 2e, or were directly transposed already. There were a few that were just plain gone, but very few didn't have a comparable version. What's more, 2e provides rules so you can just wholesale make your own contracts... So if there's anything you want to do, you can include it by following those instructions. I made entire custom courts with special contracts for my last game using completely different themes.

So that's my two cents. Read the custom contact rules and if there's a contact you want that isn't there, transpose it into 2e. Then your players aren't locked into the old linear paths, and it generally plays nice with the rest of the system.

[u/Seenoham → u/Gacha_Pawn]

Changelings aren't really restricted by regalia groups or what the seeming favored regalia is in terms of fitting a theme. There is nothing about what regalia a contract is in that should present a problem for making a character for any theme.

Like you pointed out, they aren't limited by regalia in terms of what they do choose. At most it's a bit more exp, and they are pretty flexible there too. And what they don't want also isn't an issue. The changeling isn't going to take all the contracts in their favored regalia, and they don't have to take any of the seeming given favored regalia, so ones that don't fit the theme are also not going to be a problem. They have to take 2 common from a favored regalia, and they can pick one.

What is missing in 2e is that the contracts aren't in groups that provide an inbuilt arc. The regalia themes are much broader, and they don't have any in built direction. Those arcs could provide great starting points for a character idea, and I was inspired by some and can understand missing out on that. But the old system always had that arc be the same structure of 5 things in a set order which didn't always fit, and was very inflexible considering the range of inspiration that could be in fairytale.

Where how Regalia groups contracts matters is for the True Fae. They do get contracts by regalia, all of each one and none outside those

[u/Richardiovascular]

After running 2e for a while I had basically the same gripes about regalia. So I ended writing a house rule document reorganizing contracts back into themes. I'm happy with bringing it back into themes as well as keeping with 2e's nonlinear progression. Regalia felt too... gamey...

I think sometimes I should go back and rewrite the document into a pdf with the actual contracts written out. Just so the table has an easy reference document.

[u/moonwhisperderpy → u/Richardiovascular]

Yes, I think this is the best way to take the best of both editions.

Would you like to share that document if you ever rewrote it?

[u/Richardiovascular → u/moonwhisperderpy]

Yeah definitely.

[u/ramblomancer]

I agree with sleep_eyed I prefer 1e but have not actually played 2e but have studied the book in the hopes of shifting my campaign over to the new edition. I like too much of 1e to switch over although I like a lot of the expanded lore and interesting new ideas in 2e I could not get over the weakening of the themes and feeling from 1e contracts and character design. The contracts were fairly cheap to gain so I feel like having to learn them in order is not too big of a burden, however the structure of 2e regalia functional organization feels too practical and not whimsical enough to really feel at home in the game. I find the first 3 dots of each contract tree are all you generally need for most characters to feel quite powerful and usually cheap enough to build your character exactly how you want to without loosing out for not having specific bonus X for being the right type of seeming or kith.

[u/sleepy_eyed]

Personally as a person who has played both as a dm and a player for both editions.... I like 1e's more, and granted they do have their own set of flaws. I've found, at least among my players, the contracts they tend to be alot more diverse, where with 2e i found i had alot of players reaching for the same contract or something similar with a slightly different flavor. Utility wise 2e's contracts are usually better but generally do the same things.

I like 1e contracts because each contract has it's own identity and theme but you do fall into the pit of those niche powers that are single use or very specific. unlike 2e contracts which are "a la carte" and you can mix and match whatever you want, (and i guess optimized play users really love this), 1e requires you to take every dot to get to get to the big awesome cool shit. Which is sub optimal for people who want the cool teleport spell but don't want to purchase the other 4 dots in a contract they were probably not going to use or look at.

I have mixed feelings if just house ruling 1e contracts to be a la carte would actually fix anything. I've seen people bemoan those stupid 1 dot contracts they were forced to get right till the exact niche moment it was helpful and they could just pull it out of their ass. I think those moments capture what changelings or fey are more than anything.

I think 1e contracts tend to be alot more powerful in scale. While those 1 dots are more oddly specific they do have their own points of vagueness that allow for some very silly things to occur. their powers tend to be more valuable the more creatively you can use them, which can be horrifically difficult to balance for and some careful consideration needs to be taken by ST when you try to mesh the two types of contracts together. Like most 4 or 5 dots tend to be borderline mage level reality breaking in their specific theme. 2e contracts tend to have alot more of a flatter powerful curve to consider. I haven't done the exact math but most of 2e's common fall around a 2ish on the 1e scale while the royal tend to be around a 4 on the 1e scale.

Here's the best example I can give of that off the fly, contracts of elements (x) can be very broken based on what you decide to make the elements of x be. It could be fire or water or air yeah but like.... what about contract of elements guns, knives or cars. I'VE LITERALLY HAD A CHANGELING COMMIT INSURANCE FRAUD BY GETTING CONTRACTS OF ELEMENTS CAR SO HE COULD COULD GET ARMOR FOR BEING SPECIFICALLY STRUCK BY CARS. that in isolation is both funny and what i think peak changeling looks like.

[u/moonwhisperderpy → u/sleepy_eyed]

I like 1e contracts because each contract has it's own identity and theme but you do fall into the pit of those niche powers that are single use or very specific.

Yes, I agree. Each contract has more identity, which is also how almost any other splat organizes their powers. Although I am not really sure what the identity of "Contracts of Darkness" really is, to be honest. Is it stealth? Is it fear?

I've seen people bemoan those stupid 1 dot contracts they were forced to get right till the exact niche moment it was helpful and they could just pull it out of their ass. I think those moments capture what changelings or fey are more than anything.

Yes, I get what you mean. It does feel very fae-like and rewarding when you pull it off and actually use those niche powers. But still, I think it's overall a bad design for the main splat powers that you need to buy in sequence. Capturing that feeling is what Loopholes are for, in my opinion.

Or you could have some extra benefits to the main effect under special niche conditions. Or have a whole category of powers, niche but much cheaper. Essentially you could get 3 niche powers for the same XP cost of 1 flexible. I could see Goblin Contracts being like that.

I'VE LITERALLY HAD A CHANGELING COMMIT INSURANCE FRAUD BY GETTING CONTRACTS OF ELEMENTS CAR SO HE COULD COULD GET ARMOR FOR BEING SPECIFICALLY STRUCK BY CARS.

To be honest, in that instance I wouldn't have allowed "Car" to be taken as a chosen Element. It's not a primal essence of the world, which is quite clearly the intent of what Elements are supposed to be. Cars would fit more under the purview of Artifice. I would have accepted Metal though, which arguably could be enough to pull off that insurance fraud.

So yeah, while I do agree that there is a lot of vagueness that can be left up to interpretation and possibly have some OP effects, the ST is always the final judge of what should be allowed.

[u/Humble-Ad-5076]

I just mix both of them and call the the old and the other the new way and let the players choose which they want