r/CharacterRant • u/Beginning_Debt9670 • 28d ago
Films & TV Why the Samurai Jack revival succeeded where young justice failed. Spoiler
I had the idea for this analysis for a little while now, but I didn’t quite know how to put it together. You see I was one of the people wanting young justice to return after enjoying it, getting into the first two seasons’ strong writing and learning about how unfairly it was cancelled. But now, after it finally happened years later, it left me disappointed and genuinely depressed. Seasons 3 and 4 of the show were unquestionably, insanely bad and I want to figure out why? It just can’t be because the creator, Greg Weismann, and his team were rusty. I refuse to believe, even on someone’s worst day, any amount of rust could make their work that bad. However, I think I’ve found my answer to this question by comparing young justice to another CN action cartoon, samurai Jack, that went through something similar. The answer comes down to primarily two issues.
The first issue is maturity. We all know that both shows started as children’s programming, so the writers had to be creative with how they communicated darker ideas like violence to get past the censorship. But when they were revived they didn’t have to worry about that anymore because the audience of children they enjoyed had become adults and teenagers, allowing them to go immensely dark. Samurai Jack used its new freedom to great effect, telling a story of Jack losing hope that he could save the world from Aku and return to the past. However, young justice just didn’t. As I was watching the latter two seasons, I could feel how desperately the writers wanted the show to be perceived as adult with the ridiculous gore, or the dry and hyper serious dialogue. And it ironically showed how immature the writers were. Speaking frankly, when I saw the scene of Halo getting brutally murdered over a dozen times, or that other scene of Klarion’s cat licking the blood off his paws from standing in the gaping hole in his chest I was like Weismann grow the fuck up!
The second issue is focus. There isn’t any other way to say it than young justice lost the plot. The series was always ambitious, but before it was like they knew how to channel that ambition into a proper narrative. It’s like Greg Weismann completely lost his mind, thinking he could do whatever he wanted to the show. As many people have already pointed out, one of the things that made the show enjoyable was it’s six arguably eight main characters. Their character development made the story immaculate. Still, for whatever strange reason, the writers season after season phased them out more and more, skipping over important development like the moment Arthur felt comfortable giving his superhero title and the responsibility that comes with to his protégé. And in their place was absolutely useless, boring subplots and new characters that couldn’t possibly contribute to defeating the light. In contrast, Samurai Jack remained hyper focused on its protagonist and concluding the primary goal of the series in him defeating Aku and saving the world. It gets even worse when you learn that the creator of young justice himself said in a social media post that the show doesn’t have an end. I was like excuse me? Why on earth would you start so many subplots and arcs with no intention of ending them? How do you expect to write a show like that? It’s such a huge waste of time and a slap in the face to your customers/fans who trusted you.
Anyhow that’s my opinion.
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u/Extreme-Tactician 28d ago
Greg Weissman thought he could make this something like a comicbook and have a continuous universe. But come on, people didn't want a "continuous" universe. They wanted their favorite show to have its fair share of episodes.
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u/gamikhan 28d ago edited 28d ago
I dont know why are you just making shit up, he made 6 volumes (in total 25 chapters) between season 1 and 2, then 2 specials right when season 3 began, but absolutely nothing as of recent or after season 4, he never tried to milk the series for money, he is still fighting and hoping to continue the series if dc ever aproves it.
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u/Extreme-Tactician 28d ago
What are you talking about? I'm not saying he's making a comic book. I'm saying he's writing as if the series won't ever end. He himself said he doesn't see an end to Young Justice.
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u/animehimmler 28d ago
Greg Weisman’s style was always the idea that he would foreshadow different plot points and introduce a shit ton of characters with the intent that the series would go on longer than the series ended up airing.
This worked with spectacular Spider-Man, which in two seasons quite adeptly covered most of the big arcs seen in Spider-Man’s mythos to the point where yeah it sucks it got cancelled but it really was a complete show by two seasons.
Young justice’s issue, imo, was the timeskip between seasons 1 and 2. It was an idea that would’ve only worked imo if season 3/4 were about the gap period within the show. I think Greg was in a bad spot narratively because with the cast aging up (in universe) you had to either
Introduce a bunch of new heroes
Pivot the plot into more interpersonal adult drama
Heighten the stakes to a degree that become antithetical towards the overall premise young justice started on to begin with
Greg ended up doing all three, at the same time, while never really focusing on the main original cast. I barely remember the new season (never watched season 4) but I remember being so bored by the fake Slavic dude and his sister Tera (which was a shame as she was cool in teen titans) I hated the bug guy, and halo was interesting but it almost became laughable at how only she died in graphic, horrible ways and how everyone around her reacts as if she can’t just come back to life.
I think the problem with the revival was also the scope of it. It came out, when u think about it retroactively, pretty early on in the like, streaming scene. There was Netflix and shit and hbo but for dc (right?) to have its own platform. Dc universe was a pretty big gamble even back then, and young justice was brought back purely for content, not for intent.
Intent meaning that the money behind it was never meant to produce a meaningful, worthwhile show. It was meant to generate a number.
I think if Greg had wanted, he could’ve made a show that worked. For whatever reason it just never came together, the animation was consistently bad, and the writing was laughable.
I never watched the new season of samurai jack but it does have a much easier way to progress the plot. It was always a pretty singular show with one overarching goal, and the quasi Yojimbo/western narrative style lent itself to sideplots that still heavily feature Jack.
Young justice by even season 2 had just exploded so much in terms of characters, organizations, events, backstories, etc. season 3 imo was always going to be a mess, unless things were dialed back considerably. Like Greg complains that CN cancelled YJ due to toys but it’s like dude, maybe don’t introduce fucking lol, 30 NEW characters in your second season, forcing your producers to pay more for more voice actors, more time for production/concept design etc.
I think Greg was just a little crazy with it- or maybe he never really cared about the series? I couldn’t tell you.
Interesting post though, I haven’t thought about this show since 2018
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u/Callandor0 28d ago
I don’t think Seasons 3 and 4 of YJ were that bad, but everything after S1 suffered from the same two flaws: too many characters were introduced, and there was no intention of wrapping of all the plot lines. Heck, Weissman has said in interviews that he’d just continue the show indefinitely without an actual finale. In my opinion, that’s absolutely terrible showrunning. If a work of media is never intended to end, I don’t think it can ever be described as “great”. You simply cannot have satisfying narrative arcs without conclusions or payoffs.
This is all a shame, bc I think S1 of YJ is an almost perfect superhero show.
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u/Redditislefti 28d ago
My two biggest problems with YJ season 3 that made me drop the show were that the bug guy was had a really, really annoying voice, and I just hated halo.
also, and if this were the only issue then I wouldn't have dropped the show but, they really mishandled cyborg. It's like they wanted to do what Teen Titans did, but they also didn't want to copy Teen Titans, so they just kinda had him in a self pity limbo
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u/Darkiceflame 28d ago
When the characters you choose to be the focus of the season are the least likeable characters, you know you've messed up.
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u/ILikeMistborn 26d ago
It's amazing how the only new character from Season 3 that I actually liked was Black Lightning, who had literally no reason to even be a main character. The evil doctor lady was also alright, but she just kinda fizzled out into irrelevance after her big reveal. Fred Bug was Fred Bug. The rest all sucked.
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u/theglowofknowledge 25d ago
Halo was impossible to take seriously to me because they made the nonbinary queer chick have rainbow powers, and her name and powers are probably definitely maybe a rip off of the main character of a very long running webcomic called Grrl Power.
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u/gameboyadvancedgba 2d ago
Her name and powers are taken from the comic book character she is based on. There are more valid criticisms of the show than this lol
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u/UpperInjury590 28d ago
Samurai Jack succeeded? That's an interesting opinion.
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u/UltimateArtist829 28d ago
At least it has an ending, well 2 techinically if you play the Battle Through Time game. Meanwhile Young Justice just refused to end and they kept adding more new characters and future plot points each season.
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u/accountnumberseven 28d ago
Arguably SJ didn't need a real ending. Season 1 ends with the episode where Aku tries to make the kids hate Jack and instead they come up with their own story of how Jack will inevitably defeat Aku. It really felt like the series was saying "you know he's going to defeat Aku eventually, we're telling you the ending that everyone knows will happen right now so we can focus on the journey."
I liked S5 but I'd have preferred no ending over the ending we got. But I respect that it gives closure.
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u/Captain-Turtle 28d ago
a happy ending is better than no ending which is better than what we got, after everything jack went through we deserved to see him happy and also aku was such a bastard for so many years it was good to see him finally perish, but the cost of everything jack lost was too much, glad the game gave a brighter outlook
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u/Fanedit895 23d ago
The game’s ending is pitiful wish fulfillment that I could have gotten by reading fanfiction. The actual Season 5 ending worked just fine. Jack saved the world from Aku, but it came at a cost that he has to live the rest of his life. It wasn’t even that depressing as the final shot was of him finding hope.
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u/TCGeneral 28d ago
The main thing I remember that people complained about was the breakneck pace of the ending, trying to fit too many sudden developments during and after the final confrontation with Aku, with Aku himself almost coming out of nowhere and stumbling into a near-victory. But I haven't seen people complain about the first two thirds of the last season.
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u/Historical_Doctor201 27d ago
Samurai Jack season 5 was a slamming good time that was a success critically and commercially.
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u/SeriousTitan 28d ago
Young Justice season 1 was almost perfect.
Second season comes around and it's so bloody melodramatic. It just felt so forced.
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u/Lady_Gray_169 28d ago
I will question your comments about seasons 3 and 4. I thought they were fantastic hands down, loved them.
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u/Freyzi 28d ago
Yeah, "unquestionably insanely bad" seems a big exaggeration. They were flawed but I enjoyed them a lot.
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u/gamerslyratchet 23d ago
No one can handle slight disappointment anymore. You can't say that something fell short or missed the mark. Nowadays it's "DA WORST THING EVAR!!!!"
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u/Mzuark 28d ago
I never got into Young Justice. Even when I was a kid, nothing about it appealed to me. I'm always shocked that I'm 29 years old now and it's still getting a new season every now and then.
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u/Extreme-Tactician 28d ago
It's not getting a new season every now and then. It got 2 seasons for a revival and stopped.
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u/PitifulAd3748 28d ago
Seasons 3 and 4 feel like an extension of the cast problem that season 2 had. A large cast with way too much going on between them and at least an episode or two dedicated to each plot.
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u/gamikhan 28d ago
I really dont understand how everyone gets stucked on halo brutal deaths, like who the hell cares? Wow a character that has the ability to heal themselves died thrice, meanwhile if this was wolverine you guys would be soyjacking 24/7, makes sense.
People also soyjack, "Oh I wanted to see robin become night wing" "Oh I wanted to see aqualad become aquaman" and stuff like that, but it doesnt make sense, one says this stuff in their head but what the hell would the episode actually be?
Other people hate that it is not concluded but thats kind of the point, the series is alive because it gives stories and narratives space to breath, if he wants to show a conflict he is not forced to end it in the same season, from season 1 they tell you that the Light is planing something and that every fail was contributing towards it and finally in season 3 you are revealed that he just wants the Earth to get stronger to fight against darkside, you could not have put darkseid as the defeated final boss in season 3 or 4 without it being completely disapointing, much less season 1 or 2 like some people are seriously commenting.
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u/gamerslyratchet 23d ago
It's something baffling to hear people complain that they don't know the Light's plans when "Evolution" was very blunt about its true goal and endgame against Apokolips. Not just that, but how big that scope is and how trying to "wrap up Darkseid" in seasons 3 or 4 would be treating him like a cliche alien invader.
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u/gameboyadvancedgba 2d ago
I would say this is a problem that ultimately stems from the shows lack of focus (i say this as a fan of all 4 seasons)
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u/sudanesegamer 27d ago
Greg weisman didnt understand that tv doesnt work like comics. You cant leave out the end and pass it off to the next writer when it comes to tv.
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u/gamerslyratchet 23d ago
That whole quote about Young Justice not having an end has been misunderstood so much. Weisman meant that the show won't have the type of ending that wraps everything up and leaves no room for further stories. Every seasonal arc has its beginning, middle, and end. Some character-specific arcs do advance or wrap up, like Artemis and Jade reconciling, Artemis gaining closure over Wally's death, or Zatanna getting her father back. And I'm sure the whole Light/Apokolips conflict is meant to have an end. It's just something with a far bigger scope and something that might not neatly wrap up in a single season.
I'd argue Samurai Jack ultimately fell flat because it tried forcing an ending where it didn't belong. The initial conflict with Aku was a way to kick off the premise of the series. The show was never that serialized or had anything involving a definitive arc. Not every show needs to have one.
And hey, at least YJ was faithful to itself and didn't rip-off Gurren Lagann's ending wholesale, for some baffling reason.
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u/gameboyadvancedgba 2d ago
I hate that I agree with both you and OP on a lot of stuff. This show is so conflicting for me man
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u/truthbomb720 27d ago
Samurai Jack revival was horrible. Genndy ruined the season by adding an unnecessary love story. The whole season would have been better if there was no Ashi. The ending makes no sense either he should have stayed in the future since he’s been there longer than in the past with all his new friends.
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u/AnonymousOtaku10 28d ago
I absolutely loved YJ s1 and s2 in it’s primary days. Like you, I advocated for them to bring it back, even going as far as signing petitions, etc. But too much time passed in between the haitus and s3 release. I truly wanted to love it but that compounded with the issues you’ve mentioned just made it so unappealing.
I’d also like dump my personal feelings that I think while the animation looks fine on the surface, it lacks the fluidity of the first seasons and I’m sorry, the voice work got really bad, maybe not unwatchable but it felt like it lacked vim.
I’m trying my hardest to get past the rest of outsiders but I don’t have much hope for s4. It’s a shame really what corporate greed and a lack of direction can cause.
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u/BreadRum 27d ago
Young justice season 4 failed because the main character, vandal savage, took a backseat in it. Instead of one overreaching story, it told multiple 3-4 part ones.
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u/Klainatta 2d ago
YJ's problem is it's refusal to solve any of the big plotlines. I wanted them to wrap it up but they instead introduced 40 new characters and subplots that eventually got nowhere.
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u/Ry90Ry 2d ago
Sorry but I find the need for a definite ending very stupid, and down right childish lol
I love how the world continued to expand, the fight is never really won at the end of the day it’s always happening. Much like real world, and much like the decade long medium that’s comics
As for lose focus? Sure if you only care about young justice as a character study for the core 6 from season 1 (I’d argue season 4 closes all their arcs nicely) but that’s not what this show was outside of season 2
For 75% of it is a larger story of this dc universe through the lense of this junior team. Sounds like you were eating a cheese burger and u simply wanted a fried chicken sandwich. Doesnt mean the burgers bad.
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u/Raimiversus 28d ago edited 27d ago
I share similar sentiments you have about the Young Justice revival in regards to Daredevil: Born Again, especially in regards to your takes on the gore. They amped up the gore tenfold in an attempt to retain their credibility of “mature” TV due to concerns of the show being softened for Disney+. However, the writing itself takes such a HUGE dive that it loses any of the depth that gave it that reputation of distinguished (superhero) television in the first place. Similarly as well, a lot of its gore feels forced and ironically, childishly placed in the show.
Born Again feels like a caricature of the original Netflix series.
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u/Valuable-Owl9985 28d ago
Yea they really should have just ended made a conclusion.
A lot of the problem with 3 and 4 started with season 2. The scope got way to big it introduced version of popular characters who got way too little focus and thus I didn’t really care about most of them.
It started out as a show about young heroes then it evolved into this weird psycho Drama about the whole DC universe.