(Star Trek) Authorial Intent, Genetic modifications and the polite atrocity: Why the Federation is a dystopia.

[u/Animus_Infernus]

TW: Genocide

Star trek is a franchise about the future.

Specifically, a post-scarcity future revolving around Starfleet and the Federation.

The basic premise is that humans have founded a unified coalition of planets and nations, spreading human values of peace, prosperity and acceptance across the galaxy. This is the Federation

Obviously, there are cultures that aren't as progressive as humanity. Cultures who seek to erode federation values, this necessitates Starfleet, an earth-based and human-controlled military faction within the Federation.

For my first point, Authorial Intent is important here.

Star trek has gone through a lot of authors, but the eternal intent is that the federation is good. Sometime's it's space-NATO, sometimes it's space-UN, sometimes it's space-USA. But it's always been what those groups should aspire to be. A beacon of hope. (at least that's the intent)

We see it with Picard (both the show and the captain) being hyper-patriotic for the missions of peace and science. with Star Trek: Enterprise demonstrating how separate cultures came together to found the federation. with Star Trek: The Original Series being about human homesteading and a peaceful end to the space cold war.

And then the cracks begin to show, starting with the Augment Ban.

In Star Trek's human history, augmented humans led a series of bloody wars and atrocities. The natural human instinct was to ban all genetic modification. This carried on to the federation, any culture that wants to join the federation has to ban genetic modification.

Multiple species have canonically performed mass genetic augmentation without becoming tyrants, but they aren't permitted into the "beacon of hope." Because Starfleet is still mad about something humans did to each other. Curing a health condition using alien tech is considered sciencecrime, but only if that alien tech is genetic modification. This isn't even from the cynical shows, this is established in Strange New Worlds. and Enterprise which are both full of "starfleet awesome, federation awesome."

And then Star Trek: Picard comes around, and drives another nail into the coffin of "The Federation is free"

Star Trek: Picard starts with a terrorist attack being perpetrated by robots. Therefore a decision is made to ban robots. Creation of robots is forbidden, any research that involves them is forbidden (including, canonically, life-saving cybernetics) and any existing robot has to be executed.

These aren't even "robot arm and computer" robots. The ban specifically requests the "disassembly" of Asimov-style thinking machines, across the whole of the federation.

The ban is repealed fourteen years later, after which an unknown number of sapient beings have been taken apart for the sake of a human law. An entire type of person is declared illegal, even though the attack had nothing to do with the perpetrators being robotic.

That's two different data points of the federation declaring people's existence a crime. Which is textbook fascism. Star trek portrays the robot ban as a mistake, true, but you can't just say "whoopsy, we mandated genocide. Our bad."

It gets worse. Because of a concept that modern Star Trek loves:

Section 31.

Section 31 is Starfleet's martial law. A group of people who can declare "interstellar emergency." and get a pardon for anything, up to and including attempting to destroy planets. People operating under section 31 have no oversite, even from Starfleet Intelligence (starfleet's spy agency). While at the same time recieving cutting-edge tech beyond what Starfleet gives its flagship vessels.

Starfleet has managed to "solve" multiple political problems by taking a rabid group of spies and ordering them to commit atrocities. They're willing to cover up those spy's actions and very existence, even after section 31 attempts a coup on earth's government.

So the Federation is willing to ban life-saving medicine, criminalize people's existence, and fund a fascist secret police that even they can't control. All for the sake of a sick HFY attitude, that the spread of human values are worth debasing everything that humanity is supposed to mean.

[u/BardicLasher]

The augment ban isn't just about the tyrants. The big reason they need to ban augments is an arms race. Julian Bashir was a kid with a severe learning disability who got augmented and is now literally the best doctor of his age in the federation. They make a point that he's up for awards against people in their 50s and 60s while he's 30-ish. I don't remember what season the awards were, but he's 27-34 in the show. And if this is what augments can do, then anyone who is NOT augmented is at a significant disadvantage to those who is. If augmenting becomes allowed, it's simply the best idea for everyone to get augmented as soon as possible, because how are you supposed to be skilled in any field if there's a competitor who has a literal superpower to do it? Now, this battle a bit with multispecies multiculturalism (Vulcans are at significant advantages over humans and most other species we know in many, many ways), but the fact remains that if augments are freely allowed in Starfleet, only augments will make it through the Academy.

I'm not going to defend the other two. The robot ban was a completely terrible overreaction, and while having a secret intelligence/black ops organization like Section 31 has merits, we repeatedly see that Section 31 is completely fucked up.

All that said, I don't think this qualifies the Federation as a dystopia. While there are significant flaws, the injustice and suffering simply isn't widespread enough, and the vast majority of people are doing quite well under the UFP. The Federation has serious flaws, certainly, and there's serious corruption issues amongst the admiralty, but it's still a mostly good, mostly benevolent organization that tries to do its best and just isn't perfect about it.

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/BardicLasher]

The augment ban is basically to avoid a Gattaca situation.

And honestly, Section 31 is basically a rogue section of Starfleet; there's a reason why, in DS9, where it appeared first, the protagonists are gung-ho against it at every step. Starfleet has its own separate Intelligence and all.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ThePandaKnight]

And then Discovery and even Lower Decks decided "screw that, section 31 is cool edgy black-badge FBI agents."

If section 31 was just the cold civil war of DS9, that would be a lesson on why the concept doesn't work.

But Discovery made it clear that section 31 not only works, it's being hyperfunded, has cutting-edge tech, and is needed to save starfleet.

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/Animus_Infernus]

I haven't watched Discovery yet, but I would say that just means there's various angles in which the concepts have been explored and aren't a black-and-white show of the Federation as a whole-? If Section 31 or the Robot Ban was all we know about them it would be a thing, but what you're telling me is 'since the Federation did these mistakes they're a dystopia'? Sorry I don't buy it.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ThePandaKnight]

If a country keeps the streets clean, the trains running on time, and what-have-you. It's still going to be judged by even a single genocide for good reason.

They spent 14 years with an ironclad rule that sapient life had to be executed for being the wrong type of life. Its intellegence agency has no oversight, no regulations, and is routinely covered up.

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/Animus_Infernus]

Section 31 is NOT Star Trek Intelligence, it's a separate entity that is basically a rogue agency that the higher-ups keep covered up for being useful.

And you're purposefully misinterpreting what happened, it's not being 'the wrong type of life', it's because the Synth in that situation had caused a massive loss of life, and people had a kneejerk reaction, which just shows us that the Federation is fallible and continues the plotline shown in TNG where there's a blind spot for them in being considered the same as other races.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ThePandaKnight]

A single group of synths caused lose of life.

The "kneejerk reaction" was to demand everyone start executing all synths for 14 years.

If a country says "whoopsie, we did a li'l genocide." That goes beyond being fallible.

Like it or not, discovery establishes that Section 31 is well-funded, very well connected, and is effectively a part of Starfleet. They're the secret police.

You can't have a group which is "fallible, but good in the end." when those flaws are having a secret, genocidal, police force. I am told that starfleet is a beacon of hope, the show makes it clear that starfleet is a beacon of hope, and then it turns around and starts doing fascist actions. It sets a precedent. It says "you can be a good country, while also doing some light fascism on the side."

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/Animus_Infernus]

You can't have a group which is "fallible, but good in the end." when those flaws are having a secret, genocidal, police force.

Yes, you can.

Why, you may ask? Because those kind of mistakes have already happened in the history of Earth, humanity and the Federation, and they've grown from it, it's the whole point of Star Trek in a sense.

... I just realised this whole conversation is basically Encounter at Farpoint and now I'm chuckling.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ThePandaKnight]

And here's where authorial intent rears its ugly head.

Because you're taking standards set by cold war US and USSR, and applying them to a culture that is, time and time again, stated to be more than just a good country, but as the beacon of hope.

Time and time again, Federation captains meet species who are still dealing with earth-style baggage, and brag about how the federation has gone beyond such silly problems.

Star Trek: Picard had an entire season about how much 2020s earth sucks, complete with ICE raids and homeless camps. Star Trek: Discovery establishes that the first things humans should do after a galactic apocalypse is try to rebuild Federation culture.

If the federation was a flawed culture getting better, then I'd be fine with them sucking. But they're not, they're the idealistic perfection. Post-scarcity, post-racism. They're a dystopia not because they're worse than IRL places, but because they're a Utopia built on a lie

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/Animus_Infernus]

I mean, if you bring in authorial intent, it seems interesting to me that you're basically basing your opinion on more recent works (Discovery and Picard), while the previous works showed the Federation as being almost spotless, Section 31 as being effectively a rogue agency, etc.

I haven't finished watching Picard, and I just finished DS9 and started now Voyager, so perhaps I'm coming from a point in time where the Federation was written exclusively positive, but...

Like, lets say, how is Section 31 related to Federation CULTURE? They themselves position themselves as something completely opposite to what the Federation represents, and it's not like the Obsidian Order, where they are running things in the background. No, they may be sanctioned by higher-ups, but the average Federation citizen doesn't know about them, and when they do, they loathe their existence.

The whole Synth ban thing? It's framed as a moral failing of Federation culture where they fail to live up to their ideals due to fear, which is something explored in DS9 in that two-parter where Starfleet almost manages to make a coup, showing some cracks.

Like, is it a lie because different authors decided to make different choices in their writing? Or because it should be infallible? Do you give up on what the Federation represents, has achieved and all the great people we encounter in the stories that put their lives on the line because there's problems to work from?

Personally, while if I was there in-person I would feel like the Federation and the people that live in it have failed to follow their ideals, I wouldn't think that I'm living in Omelas. The Federation is not built on a lie, but it can abandon its truth.

At least there's my two cents, I think I've said what I wanted to say ahahah - thanks for the convo.

[u/Wyndeward → u/Animus_Infernus]

First, one person's utopia is another's dystopia, and vice versa.

Second, most people don't want freedom and the responsibilities that come with it; They want security, comfort, and plentitude.

Lastly, you're trying reconcile multiple visions spanning multiple eras of real life, each of which leaves a different "mark" on the fictional product. The optimism of the Sixties and the TOS is not the same as even the optimism of the TNG, let alone more recent material.

Every Utopia in fiction is built on a lie or a secret sin because if it is an actual utopia, where's the drama?

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/Wyndeward]

I want to make something clear: I like star trek as a franchise.

I just also think that I can define the federation as a textbook "one who walks away" dystopia.

[u/vadergeek → u/ThePandaKnight]

Because those kind of mistakes have already happened in the history of Earth, humanity and the Federation,

And I would not consider any of those genocidal governments to be good.

and they've grown from it,

Have they?

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/vadergeek]

Have they?

Yes, Q.

[u/vadergeek → u/ThePandaKnight]

But the problems brought up by OP are all problems we saw after Encounter at Farpoint.

[u/ThePandaKnight → u/vadergeek]

Yes, and are also problems we see avoided after Encounter at Farpoint.

[u/Teive → u/Animus_Infernus]

Isn't Discovery pre TOS? IE DS9 being more current is a better representation of how tbe federation currently views Section 31?

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/Teive]

Discovery and Lower Decks both use section 31 as the "cooler, edgier Starfleet intelligence."

They're set on opposite ends timeline wise. So Starfleet clearly went back to that attitude after DS9

[u/ObsidianTravelerr → u/Animus_Infernus]

There's a reason why Discovery was shit canned too... It was rejected by the audience for lore inaccuracies and for trying some edgy shit like Section 31 which... Unsurprisingly? People hated. It tried to straddle too many lines, ultimately failed which is a shame. Section 31 is an idea though that should have been taken out back and disposed of with the rest of the garbage ideas. It did not fit trek. It worked best as some bit of isolated nut cases.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ObsidianTravelerr]

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in.

The new star trek authors are creating a film about section 31. Disregarding everything DS9 established.

[u/ObsidianTravelerr → u/ThePandaKnight]

If you hadn't noticed, OP has gone out of their way to use Kurtzman Trek as their main basis as "Good Guys bad." Argument. Better Arguments could have been using events in DS9 where it showed some VERY ugly decisions made and how war had some shit choices made in order to not end up in even worse situations. Not even an Ends justifies the means but a "This sucks, that sucks far worse."

Not too mention OP also glossed over OTHER groups who ALSO where doing the same damn thing about Synths and went to further extremes as the show itself showed.

OP just wants to say "Federation bad." Why? Fuck if I know. it looks far more like they went cherry picking for any instance to support their view than the literal mountain of evidence that stood against it.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ObsidianTravelerr]

Mountains of good actions do not justify a genocide.

Yes, other cultures did bad stuff, those other cultures are bad. Most of the "worse than federation" factions are villains.

I didn't bring up DS9 because DS9's bad stuff were, as you said, to not end up in worse situations. The bad stuff in picard and discovery are about "slave revolt justifies genocide" and "cool edgy black-badge cannibal-queen"

I want to say Federation bad, because I want to make it clear that being a "beacon of hope" comes with certain expectations, one of which is "don't commit genocide."

[u/ObsidianTravelerr → u/Animus_Infernus]

So if you'd paid attention, you'd have known Romulans had infiltrated the Federation and had been pushing against The snyths, and then when the situation happened where the driving force to push for their elimination. This was in the show. Yes some in the Federation wanted it as well displaying its failings as well... Also note its fucking Kurtzman who can't write StarTrek for shit. He wanted that Dark Edgy Trek for the "Modern Audience" Ie Shitting on Legacy Trek and what it stood for and even flat out retconning if not countering established long standing facts just to shoehorn in his bullshit.

Kurtzman wanted the Federation seen in that light, NOT anyone else. That guy did it. ITs gone over about as A Turd in the punch bowl. As such you almost have to take it as an "Elseworld" or Alternate Universe take. Bluntly put? His entire work with it is the Highlander Two of Star Trek.

[u/Animus_Infernus → u/ObsidianTravelerr]

The bad shows kept getting renewed.

This isn't just one nutcase ruining star trek, this is the film industry driving it into the ground. This is all the random fans being riled into supporting section 31.