r/CharacterRant Dec 14 '16

[Fancalc Alert] Toneri's moon slice speed

After it was brought up recently I went back and took a look at the feat to get a clearer picture.

Toneri's sword starts expanding right after this point, at 5:14. We have no idea how to calculate how much it initially expands in the first large frame because we don't get a full image of it, but we do hear the same sound effect used for the expansion continue in the background until Toneri begins swinging his arm down at 5:21, when it changes to a different sound effect to describe the slash.

First of all, even trying to calc the extension time frame in this manner is extremely iffy because we have no idea if the blade was actually done expanding to its full length during any point in that window, or if it continued expanding while he started cutting.

That gave us a 7 second time frame btw.

Another method we could use is Toneri actually cutting the moon, which begins at 5:26 and ends at 5:33.

This is also a 7 second time frame.

The diameter of the moon is 3474 km = 3474000 m. But as seen in KerdicZ's comment the blade was actually probably about a fifth longer than the moon, or 4168800 m.

3474000/7=496286 m/s

496286/340 (the speed of sound in air) = Mach 1460, for the second method of the blade slashing the moon.

Using the first method (blade's expansion) gives us:

4168800/7 = 595543 m/s

595543/340 = Mach 1752

It's important to note that Toneri's arm speed should actually be below that because his arm just acted as a fulcrum for the blade, but that's even more unquantifiable so we'll just go with Mach 1460. At the very least, Naruto would have been reacting and running toward the blade that had Mach 1460-Mach 1752 speed.

Now it's even more important to note that the speed in the movie, which is the closest we can get to a legitimate time frame, may not even be accurate because this is anime and time in film in general is not always 1:1. But with what we can for sure determine, I don't see any problems with this.

7 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

10

u/KerdicZ Kerd Dec 14 '16

Fuck, I was planning on making a rant showing this feat...

Higher quality video of Naruto timing the attack.

Not only Naruto reacts to it, he runs roughly a dozen meters and molds chakra in his arm before the attack reaches him. It was also quite a bit longer than the diameter of the Moon - at least 15% longer.

inb4 "outlier"

inb4 "small moon"

inb4 "slower attack"

4

u/waitletmepoopfirst Dec 14 '16 edited Dec 14 '16

Fuck, I was planning on making a rant showing this feat...

Welp, sorry bout that

Do you have a shot of where they both start off? Because if they met in the middle that means Naruto can run at least at the same speed as it expands, which is hella impressive.

Realistically the blade looks about a quarter of the moon's diameter longer than the moon to me, which would boost the blade *expansion speed to Mach 1825, I'll update the OP

5

u/KerdicZ Kerd Dec 14 '16

The best we have is the attack being fired from this angle - Naruto proceeds to run those dozen meters before the attack closes the distance shown in this image.

A quarter seems too much (but possible since we don't see the end of the beam on-screen), a fifth seems more reasonable to me.

2

u/waitletmepoopfirst Dec 14 '16

Actually to be honest that kinda looks like that film technique where you go back a tiny bit in time to show what the other party was doing. Like, a shot of the beam flying at Naruto, and then a shot of Naruto running at the beam, before a shot of them colliding. I can't really tell where they meet, but at the very least Naruto has comparable running speed to the beam imo

A quarter seems too much (but possible since we don't see the end of the beam on-screen), a fifth seems more reasonable to me.

I can see that, which makes the expansion speed Mach 1752 rather than Mach 1825

3

u/KerdicZ Kerd Dec 14 '16

Like, a shot of the beam flying at Naruto, and then a shot of Naruto running at the beam, before a shot of them colliding.

Not quite, the shot of the beam flying to Naruto has Naruto with his full chakra cloak on, while the next shot we see him putting the chakra in his arm.

2

u/waitletmepoopfirst Dec 14 '16

Oh yeah I see what you mean.

I'm not sure how we should actually interpret that though. We have a frame of the beam flying toward Naruto but then it cuts to a new frame of just Naruto running forward, from a closer perspective than the shot with the beam in it. In the meantime we don't get an image of how far the beam has gone.

Naruto does get about twice as big between frame cuts though, which would support them meeting in the middle of the distance between those frame cuts. So based on that I think it's plausible Naruto is running at the same speed as the beam.

7

u/CynicalWeeaboo Dec 14 '16

Inb4 "Naruto isn't even a lightning timer!"

6

u/mojavecourier Dec 14 '16

I can see chips now.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16

I'm still patiently waiting.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16 edited Oct 05 '18

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16

Hes talking about when toneri expanded the blade at naruto and naruto put all his chakra into his one hand and punched it. That particular reaction he did would be reacting to mach 1460-mach 1752.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16

You mean the one with an obvious wind up that Naruto had time to see coming before the actual attack was launched?

I actually don't think the attack hit Naruto on the initial expansion anyways. As the beam can be seen up fired up into the air, then a few moments later Naruto's hand makes contact, causing this.

5

u/PotatoGod12 Dec 14 '16

...

So what was this?

The attack was fired, Naruto was running and met it halfway and that was it.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16

You can't tell the angle of the attack from that image. There's no way to know if it would meet him halfway or go above him.

4

u/PotatoGod12 Dec 14 '16

Point is, Naruto still, at the very least reacted to it and blocked it.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16

There's no proof he was able to react to it when there was an obvious wind up and the mach 1400-1700 attack didn't hit him on the initial expansion. It flew above his head which he then ran to and met.

4

u/PotatoGod12 Dec 14 '16

...

Oh yeah, the wind up. When we fucking see in the scan provided by /u/kerdicz that Naruto was running towards the fucking attack with his cloak on. And it did hit him. Kinda like the first time, it didn't stop and shit, right? That was because he still hadn't hit it with his chakra covered arm. There was nothing to stop the beam from expanding until he put his arm infront of himself. Like, think of Goku vs Supes #2 from Deathbattle, though with alot more struggle and the attack actually having an effect.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '16

Except Naruto decloaked himself and put his chakra into his arm before he made contact with the beam. His hand was also in front of him. So that first thing it should have hit was the chakra covered arm.

Unless the beam didn't actually make contact with Naruto at first, and went above him. Then he ran into it and made contact with his arm. Which is what I said probably happened from what the video shows.

2

u/PotatoGod12 Dec 14 '16

I think Kishi just wanted to show the other form of the GWRE, not only the blade one.

5

u/KerdicZ Kerd Dec 14 '16

You are trying too hard.

Naruto sees the attack being charged up and starts running

The beam is launched

Naruto runs several meters

Naruto focuses Kyuubi's chakra on his arm - focusing chakra is not automatic nor simple, Naruto has to think and mold it perfectly (something that it's easy for him by now but still a complex process) - then run a few more meters.

The attack finally hits him.

Even if the attack didn't initially hit him, which is not a very solid claim, Naruto still ran a dozen meters and molded chakra in his arm before a massively hypersonic beam could touch him.

The feat is pretty clear cut, whether you like it or not.

5

u/jedidiahohlord Dec 14 '16

Eh, still slow as hell, I've seen faster puts on sunglasses and sits in a lawn chair

3

u/CynicalWeeaboo Dec 14 '16

Leave us and our Chinese cartoons along

5

u/jedidiahohlord Dec 14 '16

The Chinese Web Novels reign supreme

5

u/CynicalWeeaboo Dec 14 '16

American novels with Weeb writers are the true supreme.

Source: Suggsverse

5

u/jedidiahohlord Dec 14 '16

Admittably, they have yet to get to suggs tier; some day our great prophet will bring us to the new realm of omniverse

3

u/CynicalWeeaboo Dec 14 '16

One day they can have the opportunity to get stomped by Demonbane. One day.

4

u/jedidiahohlord Dec 14 '16

It's not our fault our omnipotents are lazy and dimensions/universes are as many as drops in the ocean!

We even have Earth! We just don't encompass all fiction as we give it face as it should give us.

2

u/Overlord_Xcano Dec 14 '16

You said he started expanding it at 5:14 and started cutting at 5:26, and finished the cut at 5:33. At the minimum the blade must've equaled the Moon's diameter halfway through the cut. So that'd give an absolute minimum timeframe of 15.5 seconds, since 29.5 is halfway between 26 and 33.

3474 km/15.5 seconds = 224,129.032 m/s or Mach 658.64, minimum

2

u/TheUltimateTeigu Dec 14 '16

Isn't Naruto a lightning timer though? Which makes this feat obsolete as he's already demonstrated marginally faster movement/reaction speed. Doesn't seem to really matter.

Unless you're proving that he's not as fast in this feat as everyone seems to think, which would be good.

2

u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 Dec 14 '16

Lightning's stepped leader isn't Mach 1400, this feat is better.

1

u/robcap Dec 14 '16

There is so much wrong with this...

Now it's even more important to note that the speed in the movie, which is the closest we can get to a legitimate time frame, may not even be accurate because this is anime and time in film in general is not always 1:1

The time is never 1:1. These guys have incomprehensible super speed and reflexes, and they're fighting. Nothing will be shown at true speed otherwise everything would happen in seconds. And then you have things shown a couple of times over from different camera angles to give greater emphasis.


That's a minor point though. The entire point of coming up with a speed for the attack relies on your assumption that his attack travels a distance like the diameter of the moon in a few seconds, and that is relevant to the combat speed of the people involved? No. Toneri makes a ridiculously enormous blade and he swings his arm through almost 180* while floating above the moon. The end of the blade will be moving incredibly fast because of how long the thing is, but what does the fact that Toneri swung his arm through an arc, in what was displayed as 7 seconds, matter to anything?

3

u/KerdicZ Kerd Dec 14 '16

The entire point of coming up with a speed for the attack relies on your assumption that his attack travels a distance like the diameter of the moon in a few seconds, and that is relevant to the combat speed of the people involved? No

I don't think you understood what happened here, at all.

Toneri swinging his arm is irrelevant, yes, OP fucked up there, but Naruto is not dodging Toneri's arm swing. The important feat here is this one.

At the first use of the GWR, the beam expanded to more than the diameter of the Moon in, at best, 7 seconds.

The video I linked is the second use of the GWR, in which Naruto reacts to, runs several meters and molds his chakra before the attack could reach him - the same beam that crossed the Moon in seconds.

1

u/robcap Dec 14 '16

Toneri swinging his arm is irrelevant, yes, OP fucked up there, but Naruto is not dodging Toneri's arm swing. The important feat here is this one.

I agree completely, this was my point. Should have been clearer.

3

u/Overlord_Xcano Dec 14 '16

The time is never 1:1. These guys have incomprehensible super speed and reflexes, and they're fighting.

Wouldn't that just mean the real result is higher