r/ChemicalEngineering • u/SeaKaleidoscope6298 • 19d ago
Career Advice Job offer rescinded after trying to negotiate salary
Applied for a Process Engineer role through a recruitment agency. I hold both a BSc and MSc in Chemical Engineering, with a year of work experience in a multinational manufacturing company. The job was advertised at £40k. Went through the interview process and got a verbal offer for £35k.
The role would require me to relocate up north to a very remote village, away from family and friends, so naturally I wanted to make sure the salary made sense for the move. I told the recruiter I’d be happy to accept if they could bring it closer to the advertised £40k. Recruiter said he informed the company and they’d get back to me. About a week later, they told me the company has decided not to proceed with me at all. No official written offer ever came - it was all verbal.
Feeling a bit blindsided, since I wasn’t trying to be unreasonable and I negotiated based on their own advertised salary.
Has anyone else had an offer pulled like this? Did I handle this wrong or was this just a bad employer fit from the start? I always believed the worst the company could say was no.
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u/KingSamosa Energy Consulting | Ex Big Pharma | MSc + BEng 19d ago edited 19d ago
You did nothing wrong. Market is ass and someone who was scored slightly less probably accepted to do it for £35K.
Also, that could be the salary for a more experienced engineer (maybe 2 YOE). Maybe check next time before going through the interview so you don’t feel let down. Btw, it’s not a binding offer until it’s on paper.
Personally, the company/ recruiter seems to be a bit sneaky, I would avoid them in the future.
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u/SeaKaleidoscope6298 19d ago
Thanks for this. Makes me feel a bit better knowing I didn’t exactly do anything wrong by trying to negotiate. And yeah, I’ll be steering clear of that company and recruiter cause they do seem a bit sneaky.
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u/YogurtIsTooSpicy 19d ago
The UK is really out here inventing the modern-day career of engineering and then paying all of their engineers poverty wages
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u/Downtown_Let 19d ago
Sadly, £40k is actually quite high for their level of experience I know people with 6-8 years experience leading small teams on that.
It's routine to pay in the region of £30k starting salary. I know someone with 17 years of experience who was on £50k last year for a very large international, which shocked me, although he was allowed to WFH a lot.
To put things in context, a bus driver in my city gets £52k plus accommodation help.
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u/RequirementExtreme89 19d ago
It’s not a fair comparison when you consider that their cost of living is lower, they have govt healthcare, they have pensions, they have social services if they lose their job, etc etc.
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u/admadguy Process Consulting and Modelling 19d ago
Another big differentiator is general distribution of salaries. Median is 37K, 90th percentile is 75K, 95 percentile is i think 85K. Compare that with US Median is 65K, 90th Percentile is around 200k, 95 is almost 400K. As a whole UK salaries are fairly flat. One might say there's no growth, but actually the real thing is there is parity in pay and it is less of a winner takes all system and everuone gets their fair share to an extent. A salary of 40K, specially when single in the north is pretty good.
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u/Downtown_Let 18d ago
The healthcare is the biggest differentiator I think, I've never had to negotiate the US system so don't know the intricacies, although my company provides what I understand is a very comprehensive cover for our US employees. That does mean you become reliant on your work for health coverage though, which isn't ideal.
I agree, it's hard to compare on a like-for-like basis.
I'm curious what you think UK pensions are though? A full state pension in the UK (35+years of National Insurance contributions [a tax on income]) is £11,973 per year claimable from 67/68+(age you can claim increases based on when you were born). For context, legal minimum wage for 40 hr/week is £25,600 per year.
We also have the option to save into private savings (defined contribution pension) in which you can invest but can't access until retirement, like the US 401k I believe, but that is taken from our salary. If you haven't opted out, your employer will pay in 3+%, and you put in 5+% taken from your salary, which you can top up. Different companies vary in generosity of contributions, as in the US, and if you work directly for the government or started working a long time ago, you may get a salary based defined benefit pension, but that's a minority of engineers as private schemes have been phased out.
What kind of pensions are typical in the US, apologies if I've got it wrong?
In expenses, I think food is generally cheaper in the UK than the US, but transport, energy (more than twice USA) and housing are very expensive. The average home is 9x average salary and differs quite a bit in size, age and construction to US housing.
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u/Amadeus_Eng 18d ago
The closest we have in the US is what is called social security. We get taxed 6.2% and our employer contributes another 6.2%, that we can then take out after we reach a certain age but can be higher if we wait longer than the minimum age for retirement but it is largely based on what was paid in, but will always be less than what it would have been if we had the opportunity to just take the 12.4% and invest it in our 401Ks, but social security tax is not optional, it is paid no matter what, can't opt out. We also have the chance to contribute to a 401k (most common in US unless you are in a union, then you have an option for a pension). Where the contribution and match are dependent on how the company defines it. Companies also define how the healthcare is covered some companies will pay for everything except the deductible and the copays, while others will barely cover anything and will have large premiums before any benefits kick in.
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u/Downtown_Let 18d ago
It sounds like there are some similarities. Here the equivalent to social security is National Insurance. You currently pay 8% of your salary (was 12% until recently) from £12,570 to £50,280 and 2% over, your employer then also adds 15% of all your salary over £5000 per year. You also have income tax which is separate and a whole other story.
What you contribute has no bearing on what you receive though, everyone gets £11,973 as long as they've contributed or had unemployment benefits for 35+ years. It means that some self-employed people game the system by "paying" themselves the minimum. Some people, like my mother, ended up with less than this due to childcare and part time work.
When people talk about 'pensions' in the UK, it's typically a similar scheme to the 401k for the majority, plus the above mentioned state pension.
I heard good things about the health insurance for my company in the US, such as paying to take people across state lines when a state banned a certain treatment. But as you say, there are many horror stories and it shouldn't really be up to the company.
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u/Amadeus_Eng 18d ago
Luckily I am fortunate that my company pays for the entirety of my health insurance, and it is low deductible. Makes a big difference, especially with a family. Another thing with health insurance is the in and out of network providers so you have to be careful to only go to providers that your insurance covers in network or a whole other set of rules apply for deductibles and out of pocket costs, very much not in your favor.
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u/No_Culture9898 19d ago
UK salaries are actually insanely low, you have a MSc and can’t even get 40K??? That’s barely livable wage in the US
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u/admadguy Process Consulting and Modelling 19d ago edited 19d ago
Cost of living is substantially different. Not to mention he said north which is even cheaper. Also uk is odd, basic living expenses like food are much cheaper than US. Not exactly price controls, but competitive supermarkets. And government has rules against food deserts etc. Everything else like travel etc may be on par. Healthcare is free, pensions are decent on top of quoted number. So you can live comfortably if single at 40K. Median salary is i think 37K.
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u/No_Culture9898 19d ago
I mean fair, but with an MSc degree and some experience you’re looking at at least 100-120K in the US which is around £74K. I’m not sure if all the things you mentioned amount to £34K/$46K that OP is missing out on had they been in the US
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u/admadguy Process Consulting and Modelling 19d ago edited 19d ago
You are confusing exchange rate with purchasing power. Also, while UK might be bad when compared to rest of Europe, it is still miles ahead of US in terms of income parity.
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u/Zeebraforce 19d ago
Imagine asking for a salary like that in, say, Southeast Asia or Africa
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u/admadguy Process Consulting and Modelling 19d ago
Most developing nations tend to have decent purchasing power, but shit exvhange rates and parity. It's still pays well enough relatively as a ChemE in many developing places because they tend to do the chemical production western world doesn't want to, but needs the products, so they are stable decently paying jobs.
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u/improvize_BME 19d ago
not sure about that. You mentioned 37k is the median compared to the MSc that’s 40k. In the US, the median is 61k and you can easily make double that (120k+) with an MS in chemE. Not saying US is better but saying it is miles ahead is such an understatement
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u/admadguy Process Consulting and Modelling 19d ago edited 19d ago
I said UK is miles ahead in terms of overall income parity compared to US. being a ChemE probably still pays better in US than UK. but a salary of 40K in UK( = about 54K in USD) lets you live better than the equivalent exchange rate in UK. Add to the fact that median salary of UK Is 37K but top 90% salary is about 75K (two times the median), now compare that with US median is about 65K, but top 90% is about 220K (about 3.4 times median). Now you can see how income disparity impacts the apparent power of your salary.
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u/Ernie_McCracken88 19d ago
The US is a much wealthier country on a per capita basis than most/all of Europe. There was some discourse a few years ago about how if Mississippi became a European country it would instantly be the richest European county by GDP/capita. You're welcome to debate the cost/benefits of the decisions that have led to those outcomes (or whether GDP/capita is the best metric)
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u/RopeTheFreeze 19d ago
Did you know that the average US salary is higher than the average Canadian salary? IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DOLLARS?
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u/No_Culture9898 18d ago
Yes, that’s common knowledge? I don’t know what you’re trying to prove
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u/RopeTheFreeze 18d ago
Definitely not common knowledge, most would expect Canadian wages to be higher than US because the CAD is weaker than the USD.
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u/No_Culture9898 18d ago
Most people I’ve talked to all knew the US has higher wages irrespective of currency in either country
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u/LaximumEffort 19d ago
I’ve seen offers pulled for negotiating, it’s a risk you take.
The offer sounds terrible for your background, and you may have dodged a bullet.
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u/ChemicalMurdoc Cell Manufacturing/10yrs 19d ago
Not willing to engage in a negotiation is a huge red flag to me. If a company didn't at least counter or reject the negotiation, I was either not competitive, or they are unreasonable.
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u/LaximumEffort 19d ago
I don’t like it either, but they likely had an “all things being equal” candidate.
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u/hazelnut_coffay Plant Engineer 19d ago
it’s supply and demand. if they’ve got 3 candidates who they’d be happy taking then there’s no incentive to give a higher salary. one of you will take the offer
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u/dannyinhouston 19d ago
I hire engineers and I’ll always try to get the best candidate regardless of the salary. Three choices are not widgets, if a company feels that way run away quickly.
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u/hazelnut_coffay Plant Engineer 19d ago
if you’re referring to candidates w multiple years of experience then yes, i agree. a candidate w only 1 year of experience is similar to a new grad - a dime a dozen.
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u/dannyinhouston 19d ago
You are ignoring the inherent qualities of individuals
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u/ChemicalMurdoc Cell Manufacturing/10yrs 19d ago
I agree with you. I've had interns negotiate and we don't take it personally. Self advocating is important. Also I don't really care if someone is making $100k or $110k/yr, I'd choose the better candidate every time.
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u/jerryvo Retired after 44 years 19d ago
I've been on both sides of the desk in this situation. You did nothing wrong. Poop happens. It happens all the time.
I have issued hiring freezes and everyone already "in the loop" got cancelled out. Apologies!
People die, bosses quit, and owners issue immediate budget cuts. Never take it personally. Hey...check out your average sports team for coaches and player decisions.
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u/Disastrous-Raise259 17d ago
This isn't exactly helpful to your question but im astonished at that pay.
Im in the US and the conversion from £35k to usd is about $47. Thats not enough to live off of here. Honestly if someone offered a proper engineering role for less than $90k where I am, I would laugh at them (not including technician or operator roles).
Im guessing cost of living and transportation (yes I know our transportation infrastructure is a joke) is cheaper over there. My wife and I were both making about $90k and we were by no means well off. Lived frugally, couldn't afford a house.
Sorry, like I said, I know this isn't helpful for your question, I was just astonished.
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u/swolekinson 19d ago
This happens. A lot. It sounds like you have a general idea of salary range(s) based on other factors (e.g. location, cost of living, etc). Stay principled and things will work out eventually.
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u/BriefOutrageous3436 12d ago
so what? it's a bullet dodged. would you have really wanted to work in a company that lies so nonchalantly?
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u/diet69dr420pepper 19d ago
I have seen offers revoked due salary negotiation. One case comes to mind where the guy was taking a couple days between offers to 'think things over' and after a week and a couple back-and-forths, the plant manager stepped in and pulled the offer. Confusingly the guy was apparently distraught by the news and tried to walk everything back on the call?? If you were this excited by the role, why are you stringing your potential employer along like you're buying a used car?
Not saying you did anything wrong at all, because it sounds like you were just making basic value judgements. Not every job is worth every salary to everyone, for some 35k would be adequate, for others not, and that's just how labor markets work. But imo if you don't know your leverage in the negotiation and you need a job, it isn't always worth it to argue up. The worst they can say is worse than no. You can always shop for a new job while working the current one if you aren't satisfied with the pay. Especially for entry level work, it must be remembered that there are going to be twenty other applicants just as qualified as you are who will take whatever they can get.
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u/Bigmachiavelli 19d ago
Uk is crazy. We have the same stats and I make over 200k
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u/Bigmachiavelli 19d ago
I have terrible reading comprehension lol. I'm 8 years in, saw the masters and thought we were similar.
40k still crazy though. I started y 65k back in 2016.
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u/Mean_Chicken7356 3d ago
40K in UK currency is about 54k in US Dollars? Wow, here in the US they start off $125k-$175K in oil refineries or chem plants.. especially in Texas
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u/derioderio PhD 2010/Semiconductor 19d ago
I'll bet anything that while you were waiting for a response on your negotiation that they went to the #2 candidate instead and they accepted the low ball offer that you (rightly) refused.
Honestly, you probably dodged a bullet here and avoided having to work for a exploitative company that doesn't value its employees.