r/ChroniclesofDarkness • u/Routine-Ad-2473 • Jul 24 '25
Uratha Tribes vs Garou Nation.
Something I think about in a crossover event like a Doctor Strange/multiverse scenario is how would the Forsaken and Pure Tribes deal with the Garou Nation. Assuming they went to war how might it go about. Will Uratha get their shit rocked or will the Garou be unpleasantly surprised in how these other werewolves are fighting. I know the 2 mechanical systems are different but trying to not focus entirely on that aspect of the question, how might it go down?
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u/Insanebat Jul 24 '25
Not familiar enough with either Werewolf games to give a super detailed analysis but the Garou would probably get along with the Pure a lot better than they’d get along with the Forsaken. They also would probably be unpleasantly surprised by how much more hostile the Shadow is compared to the Umbra. Who would win in a conflict is anyone’s guess and depends as much on the context of the war as it does on the actual participants. I will say that the Uratha are likely to be far more familiar with the experience of fighting other Werewolves than the Garou are likely to be given the whole millennia-old Pure/Forsaken conflict.
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u/Mundamala Jul 24 '25
the Garou would probably get along with the Pure a lot better than they’d get along with the Forsaken.
Yes, the Pure tribes were inspired by some of the darker elements of the Garou tribes.
The issue is more motivation. The Garou and Uratha are after completely different things, and they don't overlap. If the entirety of either side went to war with one another it would also first involve them having to unite for some reason, and both are basically against uniting (or the Garou would have just shut down the Wyrm and things like Pentex decades ago) to the point you'd have to wonder why the Garou -aren't- doing that with their newfound focus.
The end result would be asymmetrical. Like the various Middle Eastern wars, or Cuba, a Garou military trying to stomp out varied and disparate unconnected packs of Uratha who vary wildly in power and can hide among the masses of humankind or the areas untouched by humanity.
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u/Insanebat Jul 24 '25
Yeah I find a full-fledged war unlikely between the two factions given that in their own setting they haven’t even united against their ‘great enemy’, that said you could always think up some justification as to why if you really wanted to explore that route. And a werewolf guerrilla war honestly doesn’t sound all too different from business as usual for the Forsaken.
Personally I think the cultural aspect would be more interesting to look at. See how the two groups of werewolves both recognise and yet are so different from one another. I think that could be fun to explore.
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u/Routine-Ad-2473 Jul 24 '25
I figured Blood Talons and Lodge of Garm would be frontliners in this conflict.
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u/Insanebat Jul 24 '25
Maybe, depends on the context of the conflict of course. Why, where and how are they fighting? Are both sides united or are they fractious? A full-scale war between the two werewolf groups seems unlikely so whatever they’re fighting over is going to play a big part in defining the conflict and it’s participants.
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u/AwakenedDreamer__44 Jul 24 '25
Assuming this is Forsaken 2e and Apocalypse 20th, I think it would go like this:
In a one-on-one fight, a Garou would most likely beat an Uratha. There’s no doubt about that. Uratha may be hunters, but Garou are warriors and have a much easier time inflicting aggravated damage.
In an all-out war between the two, I think the Uratha would overwhelm the Garou in the end. I know that exact population numbers are vague for both, but, at the very least, the Uratha certainly aren’t going extinct anytime soon. It’s stated that there’s roughly half a million of them worldwide (1st Edition, but there’s nothing in 2nd Edition that contradicts this), and their lycanthropy is more spiritual than genetic, unlike the Garou. While individually the Uratha are outmatched, they also tend to be more pragmatic, tactical, and cooperative than the Garou. They have less hangups about using technology, as well as underhanded tactics like ambushes or traps. Additionally, plenty of their Gifts, especially those of Honor, are literally focused on empowering their pack, and many their effects stack onto each other. You could make the argument that the Uratha are more divided between the Pure and Forsaken Tribes, but it’s actually not uncommon for truces to be made between the two. They’ve united against a common enemy over far less, and a whole alternate race of genocidal werewolves showing up would definitely bring them together.
If it’s a pack of Garou against a pack of Uratha across a region, it’s a toss up. Again, the Garou are generally stronger than the Uratha, but with the latter’s pragmatism, teamwork, and pack-empowering Gifts, I think it evens out.
Of course, it’s unlikely they’d instantly declare an all-out war if they met. The Uratha and Garou certainly wouldn’t like each other, but they’re both busy with their own issues. At most, there would be occasional violent skirmishes, but generally they’d just avoid each other. The Garou would see the Uratha as bizarre Moon Cults, or just werewolves who strayed from or forgot Gaia. The Uratha would distrust the Garou, but for varying reasons- The Forsaken wouldn’t feel comfortable with the Garou’s closeness to spirits, while the Pure would despise the Garou due to their connection to Luna. Tribe-wise, the two races would have a lot more common ground- Iron Masters with the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers, Bone Shadows with the Silent Striders and Uktena/Ghost Council, etc.
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u/Lycaon-Ur Jul 24 '25
These threads come up a lot, using the search function can get you some really good answers.
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u/themoonmonkey Jul 25 '25
This is a whole lot of "It Depends, Really".
One-on-one powerscaling with zero context? Garou win out.
But with context? I think the Uratha will take victory. Not even just a numbers thing, but the context of what their jobs are. It is infinitely more likely the Garou enters the Uratha territory, and that puts the Uratha at the advantage. Then you add other things, like the Uratha tribes work much more cleanly together than the Garou tribes. Which is mildly solvable on the Garou's end, but then you're looking at a narrower spread of abilities. Then you have to take into account that the Uratha can have allies that Garou, by nature, cannot.
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u/Routine-Ad-2473 Jul 26 '25
Allies, as in what specifically? The other splats?
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u/themoonmonkey Jul 27 '25
Yes, and I don't think that'd be something that can be overlooked in terms of a more fleshed out scenario. The Garou wouldn't work with whole splats, and then the ones they can work with, they won't work with all of it.
The Uratha, however, can much more easily be granted help from Mages and the Lost. And even if the Fiana bring the Kithain, the Lost win that match up much more easily. Then there is the (Requiem) Gangrel bloodline that comes from the Wolf-blooded, and then you have the average Wolf-blooded being more useful than your average Kinfolk.
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u/Routine-Ad-2473 Jul 27 '25
Dead Wolves. None More Dark gave em an update they are pretty strong now, I would say.
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u/themoonmonkey Jul 27 '25
Yeah, those ones. Couldn't remember the name and I'm at work at the moment.
Now that I think of it though, The Lost could just send some Summer Courtiers and eat all of the Garou rage.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_8553 Jul 24 '25
Garou Nation is a religious warriors culture, Urathas are territorially based hunters. You need to think about this first. It’s a really interesting take. Don’t forget the Pure and Pentex.