r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

1.1k Upvotes

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105

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Racism is believing awful things about some group.

imagine this definition being written in a dictionary lol. Would be a dictionary for kids

48

u/Fussel2107 Golden Girl — Apr 05 '18

Well....reddit ^

40

u/Pattonesque Apr 05 '18

honestly something is posted every day on this sub that reminds me how incredibly young some of the fanbase is

9

u/MaagicMushies KKona Clap Brother — Apr 05 '18

It's overly simplified, but still correct.

You aren't racist until you put one race under another and thoroughly believe that said race is inferior. Acknowledging that a black guy is a black guy is annoying and insensitive, but not racist.

19

u/The_NZA 3139 PS4 — Apr 05 '18

No acknowledging a Black guy's race is not insensitivity. One of the major tenants of race based discussions from the people on the forefront of racial critique is that identifying Whiteness as a force and a power is essential for the deconstruction of racism. WIthout the ability to say "White" or "Black", you can't combat racism effectively.

11

u/MaagicMushies KKona Clap Brother — Apr 05 '18

I should have said pointing out instead of acknowledging. Something like the TriHard thing with Malik is pretty insensitive because it's kinda like saying "this guys is black and you're black so you two are pretty much the same xD"

7

u/dmun Apr 05 '18

I'll make it even easier: being a racist is lacking aspects of basic respect, due to someone's race.

And that can manifest in many ways.

2

u/carterx3 Apr 05 '18

Acknowledging a black person as a black person is annoying... Is it annoying that acknowledging a blue sky is blue? Or acknowledging a wood table is made of wood? I don't get your point.... unless you mean being a black person is inherently bad.... 🤔🤔🤔

2

u/MaagicMushies KKona Clap Brother — Apr 05 '18

Also: to answer your rhetorical questions, Yes. Pointing out that the sky is blue is annoying because everyone can see that the sky is blue. Telling someone that the sky is blue is blue is just wasting their time with pointless facts that they need to do. It's unnecessary

0

u/carterx3 Apr 06 '18

I'm looking up right now, sky here looks gray to me.

Here's the thing - in certain situations it is appropriate to point out distinguishing characteristics. An obvious example is if a crime has been committed.

1

u/MaagicMushies KKona Clap Brother — Apr 05 '18

I elaborate on that on another comment in this thread

-1

u/carterx3 Apr 05 '18

Fair enough. I just found it but I still don't see your point. Either way, I don't really care too much... I just found it amusing.

-8

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

its not correct.

If I said "rapists are bad humans" it would be racist according to this definition. but rapists arent a race

12

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/HealzUGud Apr 05 '18

If you want to get truly pedantic: racism doesn't necessitate believing terrible things about anyone. Even the belief that one race/ethnicity (the language here is blurry because racism isn't exactly sensible) is superior is racist.

1

u/MaagicMushies KKona Clap Brother — Apr 05 '18

Saying that one is superior implies that everything else is inferior. That's pretty terrible imo

1

u/HealzUGud Apr 05 '18

Apples are great; oranges are superior to apples.

Have I said something something awful about apples?

-1

u/youranidiot- Apr 06 '18

How is acknowledging that a black guy is a black guy annoying and insensitive???

1

u/MaagicMushies KKona Clap Brother — Apr 06 '18

I elaborate on that on another comment in this thread

1

u/youranidiot- Apr 06 '18

You mean where you admit you used the wrong word? You should edit that then.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

And still kids would continue to be less racist than adults.

-7

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

Honestly, that was deliberate. We've made racism and decency such a complex issue when it's really can be boiled down to a subset of not being awful to each other. The more we avoid technicalities and treading close to the line, the more we treat each other with actual decency.

12

u/DarthDonut Apr 05 '18

That's a really naive view of what racism is, as well as how to solve it.

2

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I'm not trying to solve racism. If people are determined to be evil, there's no point trying to save them. Let's just hold open the door for those who aren't trying to be evil to walk away from it, instead of drawing the same battle lines that got Trump elected.

10

u/DarthDonut Apr 05 '18

The problem is thinking that racism is just bad people acting badly. Good people can perpetuate racist ideas or support racist systems. Racial insensitivity is a manifestation of deeply ingrained systemic racism.

1

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I think I'm doing a poor job of this, but the distinctions here are kinda what I'm trying to highlight.

I think part of what helps perpetuate racism are artificial battle lines drawn in the wrong places. People form an "in-group" around feeling attacked around having made a careless or insensitive statement. Often times, they don't appreciate why making such statements is such a problem. They then find a dirty corner of the internet where they don't feel attacked, and stew about it.

Someone who could have been educated and reformed gets pushed to the fringe by those who were standing up to their behavior with the best of intentions.

My goal is to discuss how we make a stand against this behavior. While it's important to stand up, it's ALSO important to, where appropriate, convey an expectation of better behavior and eliminate the idea that this is the same sort of tit-for-tat point scoring as any other debate on the internet.

5

u/DarthDonut Apr 05 '18

That's sort of my point. When someone makes a racially insensitive joke and we just frame it as just an insensitive joke they have no incentive to change their behaviour. Part of the education process is making people aware that jokes aren't just jokes and racism is something you can do as much as something you can believe.