r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I have a question about the xQc incident that doesnt deserve its own thread:

xQc posted TriHard 7 a lot when tuning into the stream, disregarding what was on the screen. Wouldnt it be racist if xQc decided to not post TriHard 7 when a black person was on screen? Shouldnt equality be the goal? Meaning: If you can post TriHard 7 when there is a white dude on scree, you should also be allowed to post TriHard 7 when there is a black person on screen. Otherwise you would create a double standard, treating different races differently. Wouoldnt that be racist?

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LIT Fear The Tentacled One — Apr 05 '18

Man, I typed and deleted so many snarky, hostile answers to this, but it's honestly a teachable moment.

Equality of outcome is the goal, in the macro sense. Malik (and tons of other black people) currently have TriHard spammed at them when they appear on screen, irrespective of individual intents. It is unpleasant and racist behavior. This is a fact of their lives that white people do not have to deal with. The outcomes are not currently equal.

The goal, then, is to decrease or eliminate this behavior. One way of doing so is yes, ceasing the TriHard 7 spam when black people are on screen. You think posting TriHard 7s is some sort of equal-opportunity memeing, but it is actively contributing to an unequal, unpleasant outcome for black people regardless of intent.

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u/tencircles Apr 05 '18 edited Apr 06 '18

Equality of outcome is the goal

No. That is mind-meltingly stupid, and you seriously need to reexamine your world view if you truly believe that. Malik works his ass off, and deserves all the success he has. There are other casters who don't deserve the same success since they didn't work as hard, and don't have the same charisma and developed persona that he does. This is equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome and I can guarantee you that Malik doesn't want praise OR criticism thrown his way because of his skin color which is exactly what equality of outcome would entail.

Equality of outcome is not only impossible, it's completely undesirable. Every person of color I've spoken with on the subject wants only to be afforded the same opportunities as their majority counterparts. Applied to the current situation, this simply means Malik should be given the opportunity to have his skin color not be the focal point of any broadcast he appears in. Full stop. It doesn't mean we say he's objectively as good as every other caster because his skin color is different. That type of thinking is the problem to begin with.

According praise to — or criticism of — a person because of their skin color are exactly the same behaviors and they are toxic as fuck no matter which side of the coin you're on. You cannot banish racism by actively engaging in it.

EDIT: Since people are so confused by this, here's two wiki articles. read up before you comment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_of_outcome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_opportunity

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u/Zaniel_Aus Apr 05 '18

I think you've over-interpreted his response, using the word "outcome" was probably not the best choice but read between the lines a bit more and you find you're insulting a guy who actually believes the same thing as you.

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u/tencircles Apr 05 '18

Ironically enough we both want the same outcome, but we differ fundamentally on how that outcome should be achieved. The distinction is actually very significant.

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u/Zaniel_Aus Apr 05 '18

Not really, he's just used one poorly chosen word and some slightly over-stuffed sentence structure which you're hanging him on. Just be a bit more intuitive about taking what he's written and the context of what he's replying to.

You're both arguing that people shouldn't be subject to racism at the end of the day.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_LIT Fear The Tentacled One — Apr 05 '18

Yep, this. Sub-optimal word choice, but I came nowhere near arguing whatever it is /u/tencircles is disagreeing with me on.

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u/youranidiot- Apr 06 '18

Equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are actual phrases that are used while discussing discrimination. In all likelihood that's where you got the phrase from, you should be more careful instead of just throwing out buzz words.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Uh, I think you two are having a small disagreement but overall agree.

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u/ElectricDoodie Apr 06 '18

You’re arguing with someone you agree with, simply because you couldn’t read through a poor choice of word.

gg reading comprehension

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u/stephangb 4121 PC — Apr 05 '18

Doesn't matter what the goal is. OP asked an objective answer and the answer is: it would be racist to not spam it because there is a black person on screen, you are changing your actions based on the person's skin color.

The issue you failed to elucidate is that how typing TriHard 7 when a black person is on screen could be perceived as racially insensitive. Intrinsically, there is nothing wrong with typing the emote, what people perceive it as and what the intention behind the user posting the emote is the root of the issue.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Why would one pursue a goal that is literally impossible to achieve? Isn't that a complete waste of effort?

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u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

You have to treat different groups of people differently. Absolutely. You have to be sensitive to these things.

Look at the extreme example and you'll see the point.

If you call a white person the N-word, it absolutely does not have the same impact as calling a black person that.

Basic sensitivity takes no effort whatsoever. All it takes is basic conscientiousness. Sure, even a good intentioned person can fuck this up, and should expect to do so at some point. What does a good person do in such an instance? Apologize, acknowledge that they learned a lesson and didn't intend something negative, and avoid such a thing in the future.

In general, human problems need to avoid mechanical solutions. Humans can be adaptive - let's use that as a model and make a basic effort not to be rude to each other. There's plenty of hills worth dying on, exactly how close we can tread the line of being dick to one another isn't worth it.

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u/Secrxt Apr 05 '18

PM_ME_YOUR_LIT has a good answer, but I also want to add, more... fundamentally, that racism and “doing an action with race as a factor/reason of that action” are completely different things that don’t even encompass a similar size of things, as the latter is literally required to reduce racism! This might seem obvious, but it seems that you’re under the impression that they’re somehow the same. They’re so different that calling them different doesn’t even seem to do how different they are justice.

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u/FrostyJannaStorm ? — Apr 05 '18

Technically, it would be in my opinion. Such as the combination is not good enough to say hi to black people... Because I know the intent of why it is used in OWL. Also, I am pretty sure Malik is chill with it. However, it would be too complicated to expect people of this age to accept or want to acknowledge.

The real meaning behind TriHard 7 is that its a duo of emote and symbol mostly to say hello, just that it's with a black guy's face with a seven. But not everyone knows that yet. Maybe there are some older black people having fun and feeling young with Overwatch that decide to check out this "Overwatch League" thing, and all you see is this black guy on screen, and people spamming a emote that TriHard and a number. They have no idea who or what this xQc is, and therefore no idea that this isn't saying that Malik has to try 7 times harder to stay on Overwatch than any of the other white broadcasting staff. And there goes that demographic.

I would like to say with this comment that I understand Overwatch League's reasoning behind punishing anything that might be seen as offensive but I cannot say that I agree, as I actually take context leading up to the point really seriously and I value comedy (Although insensitive) a lot in helping people accept different races. Plus I would like to bet that if xQc was black, it would be less of a problem than if he were white. If something as small as Trihard 7 (I see it as an misunderstanding and a refusal to look at facts at most) is basically punished to the point that associating with xQc is not worth the main tank you have is a really bad sign of how you are going to treat an actually super proud racist or homophobic player in the future. If these two have basically the same treatment (Not in the league anymore) how do we know that Overwatch League actually cares about reducing racism as a whole rather than just slapping a punishment on it and telling it to get lost.