r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

1.1k Upvotes

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261

u/nashfrostedtips + Defiant/Team Canada — Apr 05 '18

I feel like Eqo's case was worse than xQc's.

xQc had, imo, a degree of plausible deniability with his consistent use of the emote as his welcome to chat, there's no world where Eqo doesn't understand that slanting his eyes is highly inappropriate and comes with a major racial connotation.

If this had been the other way around as far as who did what, xQc would have been fucking crucified.

44

u/CobaKid Apr 05 '18

the Eqo thing is significantly worse

38

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I'm an Asian-American who suffered discrimination for it when I was a kid. I remember people making the slanty eyes gesture at me and mocking me, and it still hurts today to think about.

What Eqo did was certainly racially insensitive, and I think his punishment was justified, but I also don't hate him, and I don't think he's racist. I'm willing to let him learn from his mistake and certainly give him a second chance.

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u/nashfrostedtips + Defiant/Team Canada — Apr 05 '18

I'm not saying that he's racist, I just don't buy his claim of ignorance. Philadelphia's actions are why I'd agree on a second chance, his individual actions in the aftermath were poor imo.

8

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I don't know too much about his background, but if he grew up in other parts of the world, I think it's absolutely plausible that he at least didn't understand the full import of the gesture, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he was an American player, I absolutely would not buy it.

0

u/THEasianFROMtheBLOCK Apr 06 '18

Our eyes are slanted and theirs isn't. So what? Slanted eyes are better.

7

u/HandsomeHodge Apr 06 '18

there's no world where Eqo doesn't understand that slanting his eyes is highly inappropriate and comes with a major racial connotation.

Remember that EQO is Israeli. Israel has a population of almost 9 million, of which around 100,000 are east asian. It's entirely possible he didn't understand the racial connotation, though I'm not him so I can't say for sure.

0

u/two_of_swords Apr 06 '18

Israeli people know what Asians look like, lol. Israel isn't some backwater country. Also, EQO is Colombian by birth

10

u/89ShelbyCSX Apr 06 '18

I don't think he claimed that he didn't know what an Asian person looked like. Rather he doesn't understand their culture well as he grew up in a place that didn't have a large Asian community.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '18

Right right, he didn’t know that slanting his eyes was offensive, good joke the guy isn’t a child don’t make excuses for him

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u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

The difference is the response.

Read EQO's letter. That's the response to someone who has learned something from this incident. Provided he clearly demonstrates in the future that he has learned from this and it isn't just showmanship, then that's far and away better than XQC's response to any of the trouble he got in.

The goal in ALL of these instances should be teaching lessons and encouraging reform. Splitting hairs over which action is worse doesn't matter. Let's raise the standard in our community and expect respect and decency from each other. It doesn't take much effort to be nice, nor does it take much effort to apologize when we make a mistake.

Let's encourage that and focus our efforts on how people grow from a mistake.

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u/theyoloGod None — Apr 05 '18

are we really pretending philly didn't have their PR department handle everything and EQO slapped his signature on it

(which i agree is the proper way to handle it, it's the reason why PR departments exist)

-15

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I think we want to take it at face value until proven otherwise. I want the community to be ready to accept an actually reformed EQO.

I also want the pitchforks at the ready if he's not. This is his shot (no in and out involved in this case though) to prove this is something other than only a PR move.

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u/nashfrostedtips + Defiant/Team Canada — Apr 05 '18

....after an apology so bad that it would have been better to hear nothing, the "sorry you were offended" apology, plus an immediate attempt to cover his tracks by deleting the VOD. Philly clearly put pressure on him to do better, and good on them, but let's not pretend that this was some independent epiphany of Eqo's.

My issue was your describing xQc's issue as a massive fuck up while giving Eqo a considerably milder treatment and calling it nothing worse than a simple mistake, something I don't think really matches what actually happened.

All praise here should be directed to Philadelphia for being a shining example of how organizations should handle issues like this. They were damn near perfect.

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u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I probably fucked this up a bit because I'm not brilliant at this and didn't expect this to explode so much.

The distinction I tried to make was that, in XQC's case, the big failing was the lack of earnest apology and reform attempt.

I don't think XQC is a worse person. I personally think he had no mentor.

EQO fucked up bigger. He had a real mentor step in, sit his ass down, and teach him a proper lesson in responsible conduct.

That's the difference I was trying to highlight.

For what it's worth, I think the pitchforks should come back out - and more aggressively than in XQC's case - if it comes out to be that this lesson was not actually learned by EQO.

Again, I apologize that i'm not clear on this.

2

u/nashfrostedtips + Defiant/Team Canada — Apr 05 '18

I appreciate this post, it definitely does make things clear. Totally understand the distinction you're making generally and totally understand not being as clear as you wanted to be, definitely a problem that affects us all from time to time. I wasn't trying to have a go at you personally, I just tried to address what I thought was lacking or could be expanded on.

With this last post of yours I think we're definitely on the same page and it was just communication troubles, nothing more. My only point of contention is that I'm not convinced Eqo has been earnest, and that I think it's Philadelphia doing all of this as opposed to him, but when talking optics he definitely looks better because of what Philadelphia has done (can't say it enough, they're a masterclass in PR right now).

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u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

We'll have to see. Time will tell. Sharpen the pitchforks in case he's not earnest, because they will be needed then.

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u/serotonin_flood Apr 05 '18 edited Apr 05 '18

That's a pretty misleading version of EQO's response.

What actually happened: EQO deleted the VOD and tried to cover his tracks. When someone re-uploaded a VOD of the incriminating incident, EQO tweeted a half-hearted "I'm sorry if you were offended" non-apology.

It wasn't until OWL and the Philly Fusion's owner cracked down on him with that EQO published a letter with the full-throated apology that you are praising him so much for.

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u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I didn't mean to mislead. I consider his initial response as part of the fuckup.

He didn't start learning a lesson until someone from Fusion sat his ass down and taught him.

Now that he has had his ass sat down by an actual adult, let's let the barely 18 year old demonstrate he's actually learned his lesson. If he clearly hasn't, bring the pitchforks back out - but until then, let's cultivate a community where young people reforming after making huge errors (deliberate plural) of judgement is the expectation.

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u/CanadianWaldo Apr 05 '18

But did anybody sit down and try to help xqc?

9

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Monte

1

u/What-The-Frog None — Apr 05 '18

While I agree I did feel like Monte was being pretty passive agressive. I don't know if they talked privately (they probably did), but that twitter convo didn't make me think "let's have lunch and talk about this".

6

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

They did make plans, but essentially XQC decided he couldn't make the lunch because he found out shortly after scheduling it that he was banned again and he wanted to use that time to appeal instead. He knew ~24 hours beforehand that he couldn't go, didn't tell Monte, which he admits "takes 10 seconds", and this tweet comes almost a week afterwards.

Just from an etiquette point-of-view that's pretty startling, but I think at this point XQC felt his release from Dallas was inevitable or he was already open to leaving OWL because otherwise he could have just scheduled another time with Monte after his ban was confirmed and announced.

IDK if XQC was actually interested in what Monte had to say, but even just going to the lunch and taking it seriously could have been enough of a PR move to make people think he can be more mature in the future.

1

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I don't think anyone prepared and empowered to help him had the opportunity to do so before things spiraled out of control. I think that's a tragedy. If they even existed. That is the tragic part of his story.

3

u/eorje Delete Rez — Apr 05 '18

xQc immediately apologised to Malik and asked a friend if what he did was bad. He knew he fucked up and he didn’t deny it at any point. His defense was that it is how he greets chat and there is hard proof that that was what he was doing. (See the 80 other times he entered chat with Trihard 7).

In spite of that he apologised. (Not just as a PR thing but to make sure Malik knew there was no malicious intent).

EQO on the other hand? Deleted vod and tweet about how if you were offended by his actions you were a snowflake. Afterwards, his team came in to babysit and clean up his mess.

I appreciate your spiel about racism vs racial insensitivity (Calling someone racist is a huge judge of character) but I can’t help but feel you have a biased opinion on xQc and saying he did worse than EQO is a bit unfair.

2

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

In my mind, EQO's reactions up until his team intervened were all part of the same chain of fucking up. The difference is he had a mentor sit his ass down and show him how to take responsibility. For now, I'm operating under the assumtion he'll stick by the words he put is name to.

In light of that, I don't think XQC is worse, but instead that his case is more tragic. He clearly didn't have that intervention and even now I don't think it's too late for that. Young people like this aren't prepared to handle this - I brought up XQC not because I think he's worse or better, but because he specifically spoke about how he felt (more or less) trapped and forever saddled with the label of being racist. He's someone that needs a mentor and be shown the path to reforming.

It's not too late yet. I hope he does find that mentor and doesn't become a rallying figure for the disaffected trumpist type blaming the mythical unicorn "sjw" for all their problems. An XQC redemption could go a long way to improving a lot of the Overwatch community if he had the right guidance in it.

3

u/eorje Delete Rez — Apr 05 '18

I don’t think xQc needs a mentor. He doesn’t compete in the league so he doesn’t need to keep up appearances/walk on eggshells to be himself. Sure, he has some growing up to do but who doesn’t. There was no malicious intent so I don’t worry for him.

To me, EQO’s tweet and vod cover up shouldn’t be ignored. It shows a disregard for how he made people feel and there is no reason for me to think he doesn’t still feel like that.

8

u/Banelingz Apr 05 '18

Uh, the letter is likely written by their PR manager, did you read his first response? First of all, the dude tried to delete the VOD. Then, he claimed that he had no idea it’d be offensive because he’s from Israel and it’s normal there. Then finally, this letter he signed.

If you want to know how people really feel, their first response is a lot more indicative than a response several days letter after discussion with the team.

1

u/ituralde_ Apr 05 '18

I don't like the approach of judging only based on their own actions. People can change and learn from their mistakes, and EQO's immediate reaction to the negative responses was part of the mistake he made.

I prefer to take the guy at his word as he's now put his name to and judge if he goes on to live by that statement. By all means let's bring the pitchforks back out if its clear later he's not standing by what he's claimed as his word.

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u/The_NZA 3139 PS4 — Apr 05 '18 edited Apr 05 '18

Agreed. XQC's response was:

  1. I didn't do it, i didn't know.

  2. I spoke to Malik, he said he didn't even care (Malik later tweeted to say no thats not what he said, more or less)

  3. *Points fingers at a bunch of people "What about them! WHy don't they get punished?"

  4. "I think Its stupid Blizzards pocketing this money. If they aren't couragous enough to give this money to a charity I WILL MYSELF" (which is maybe the least graceful way to do a good gesture.)

  5. Calls all his critics cucklords and cucks (at least thats what he did in his "apology stream" after he got fire from the Muma mistake).

He finds a way to apologize just enough for his fans to claim he did while showing none of the genuine reflection to back it up. On top of that he takes no ownership over his rampant fanbase that absolutely uses tryhard with racial intent.

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u/mig-san Apr 05 '18

You missed the part where he actually spoke to trihex about the emote

-7

u/ahmong Apr 05 '18

While XQC did a lot of right to fix the situation, he still made so many excuses as to why he did what he did. That's pretty much the point of what the OP you replied to meant.

You can't just make an excuse when you did something wrong. I do understand why XQC made excuses. In his mind, he did nothing wrong so why should he get reprimanded for it.

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u/cocondoo Apr 05 '18 edited Apr 05 '18

I mean, he acknowledged that there were people using the emote as an offence. He claimed that he didn't use it as an offensive emote and a whole plethora of evidence backed his claim; you didn't have to look that far into it to see that he uses all the time as a kind of greeting. He was then deemed and made to look like a racist by Blizzard/media and continued to refute the suggestion that he was a malicious racist. In his frustration he pointed to other people who had done similar/worse things for much less punishment.

When you have been internally suspended from scrimming with your team by OWL and you have been deemed a racist, I'm not sure there is a whole lot more to do in order to "fix the situation".

1

u/drugsrgay Apr 05 '18

I mean, he acknowledged that there were people using the emote as an offence. He claimed that he didn't use it an offensive emote and a whole plethora of evidence backed his claim; you didn't have to look that far into it to see that he uses all the time as a kind of greeting.

You also don't have to look very far to find xqc on stream baiting his chat to spam TriHard in racist way by saying things like "Mine now" "Yoink" and "Gimme Gimme"

7

u/Sergster1 Apr 05 '18

Because xQc literally did NOTHING wrong with trihard 7. He was completely justified in his excuse of the matter.

Think of it this way, you and someone else have bought a season pass to a hockey game, you see that this other person throws bananas on the rink EVERY game without knowing the races of the people playing, suddenly a black person happens to be on playing that one day and he throws a banana.

Does this make him a racist? No.

Are his actions racially insensitive? Also no.

Is he a jackass for throwing bananas on the stage this entire time? Yes.

Is the management of the stadium also at fault for not ejecting/warning the guy throwing bananas on the rink? Yes.

xQc has the logs to prove that he's the guy throwing the bananas on the stage minus the jackass part because using an emote to say hello doesn't equal interrupting a match with your stupidity. If using Trihard was an actual issue then the League Office should have immediately told xQc to quit it before it even got to this point in the same way that the League Office apparently started to tell other OWL players that displaying Pepe the Frog is under extreme scrutiny and that they should stop doing it immediately. This is an instance of the community witchhunting someone without giving proper context of the situation. It should have never made the front page of this subreddit period and as soon as it came out that he's being doing this for MONTHS it should have been squashed right then and there. People legitimately have a hateboner against xQc and it cost him his Professional OW career because of it.

I personally do not believe the League's punishment against EQO is even remotely equal or fair to the amount of shit xQc got and even IF they took Philly's punishment into account why should that even be considered? When someone commits a crime do you think they get any less of a sentence because their mother said "Oh I've already grounded him for 4 months"?

8

u/shambolic_ow Apr 05 '18

It's not racist because he did it when a black guy happened to be on stream.

It was racist because there is no world in which xQc, the living meme, does not know that Twitch chat spams TriHard at Malik in a racist manner.

It's not about throwing bananas at the stage when a black guy happens to show up. It's about throwing a banana when the entire crowd is in the middle of throwing bananas at the black guy, as they are known to do every time he shows up.

TriHard isn't racist, the league has no reason to remove it (and lots of reason to keep it). A white sheet isn't racist, but if you show up in your ghost costume at a KKK rally, people are going to be skeptical of your motives, no matter how often you wear it elsewhere.

0

u/Sergster1 Apr 05 '18

It was racist because there is no world in which xQc, the living meme, does not know that Twitch chat spams TriHard at Malik in a racist manner.

At the same time he's repeatedly said that he didn't know Malik was on the screen at the time. With all the evidence of him not using it in a racially disparaging way I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt with this one.

-1

u/astronomicat Apr 05 '18

Nothing wrong? Participating in the spamming of TriHard whenever a black person appears on screen is racially insensitive. It doesn't matter if someone uses that emote frequently in other contexts. It doesn't matter how he intended it to be received. It doesn't matter if TriHex or Malik aren't offended.

-7

u/FuryStarcraft Apr 05 '18

Okay let's stay with your analogy a bit here. Is there plausible deniability from a hockey fan that goes to a ton of hockey games to not know the significance of throwing bananas on the ice? Is there plausible deniability for a streamer who is heavily integrated into twitch culture to not realize the most common use of the Trihard emote? At some point you have to believe that maybe someone that has proved insensitive to minorities in the past on several occassions may not have the best motives for using a particular emote as a "salute" right around the time it began to be popular to use it in another connotation. I would be shocked if his demographic isn't mostly young racially insensitive white kids.

6

u/Sergster1 Apr 05 '18

Is there plausible deniability for a streamer who is heavily integrated into twitch culture to not realize the most common use of the Trihard emote?

Yes when again he's used it MULTIPLE times previously in a non-racially insensitive way and before this incident began he's defined his use of it. On top of the fact that if Trihard is such a racist emote, why is it enabled globally on Twitch and allowed on the OWL chat when Blizzard has the tools to moderate its usage? You would have a point if he was backpedaling like EQO "oh I didn't know it was offensive, I was using it to show how much I want to be a Korean" when it comes to his racially insensitive gesture towards Asians but that is clearly not the case with xQc.

I would be shocked if his demographic isn't mostly young racially insensitive white kids.

Its a good thing I'm not then.

-1

u/MadeUpFax Apr 05 '18

As someone who is not a big twitch user, I don't understand how using the trihard emote isn't meant to be provocative. We all know it's used by racist trolls. XQc knows that better than most. By using it innocuously, you're just blurring the lines and providing camouflage for the assholes.

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u/Sergster1 Apr 05 '18

Then in that case the emote should be banned since its only used by racists according to you.

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u/FuryStarcraft Apr 06 '18

I'm not convinced his choosing of that emote for salute came without knowing the primary use of the emote or that it was innocuous just because he used it often.

If you call people racial slurs that don't correspond to their race you still cant use it as justification for the time you do call someone the racial slur that corresponds to their race.

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u/Sergster1 Apr 06 '18

I'm not convinced his choosing of that emote for salute came without knowing the primary use of the emote or that it was innocuous just because he used it often.

Believe what you want but the facts are already there. Whether or not you choose to believe it is on you.

If you call people racial slurs that don't correspond to their race you still cant use it as justification for the time you do call someone the racial slur that corresponds to their race.

He never did such a thing. Trihard is not a slur in the slightest. Its a god-dammed emote on one of if not the largest video live streaming sites on the planet that is available as a global emote across all broadcasts on the service. Once again, and I'm done arguing with you after this, if Trihard is an UNCONDITIONALLY racist in its usage, as slurs generally are, then its on the onus of Twitch to remove it if you want to go that far.

You CANNOT argue that what EQO did was on the same level as xQc, it is by definition worse and has ZERO excuse. Even IF EQO defined his usage of that gesture before him actually doing it it wouldn't matter as GLOBALLY doing the slanted eyed gesture is seen as racist. The use of the emote is only racist UNDER VERY SPECIFIC circumstances and is not a generally racist thing which is why I used the banana argument as a banana is not inherently racist HOWEVER if you pose a banana to an African-American person depending on the circumstances it can be considered racist. But again, if said person is known to give bananas to everyone they meet, and then happens to give a banana to a black person that person is not a racist nor are his actions racially disparaging.

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u/NeV3RMinD Apr 05 '18

If a guy throws bananas around every game where everyone on the ice is white does he suddenly become racist because after 100 games he does it when a black guy is playing?

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u/FuryStarcraft Apr 06 '18

Did he start throwing bananas because he thought it was funny that people would throw bananas in a racial context?

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u/scarydrew Start 1902 Current 2526 — Apr 05 '18

Not a lot of non racist people using the word cuck... that's a fact.

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u/ahmong Apr 05 '18

Thank you for this. I honestly wish people (majority of XQC fans) would read this. This pretty much explains why xqc got so much more backlash than eqo.

People in general do stupid shit and will always be reprimanded for it. It's how they react after is what matters. In this case, eqo apologised and said that he learned his lesson. in xqc's case, he apologised but still gave a myriad of excuses why he did it

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

"...there's no world where EQO doesn't understand that slanting his eyes is highly inappropriate and comes with a major racial connotation."

Well.. that's not fair to say. I'm from Denmark - and i THINK the majority of Danes wouldn't understand why this gesture is so "highly inappropriate". Don't expect everyone to know whats inappropriate, racial insensitive, racism etc. Not everyone is brought up the same way with the same culture. Some of us still have a lot to learn.

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u/JustStartinOut Apr 05 '18

here's no world where Eqo doesn't understand that slanting his eyes is highly inappropriate and comes with a major racial connotation.

I disagree with this. Just looking at his life (https://overwatchleague.com/en-us/news/21590505/eqo-s-long-road-to-pro) and how he was praising the Koreans before and after the incident, I don't think he understood that the gesture is used to mock Asians.

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u/Sooodifficult Apr 05 '18

I think his live, especially the fact that they lived in Columbia, and then moved to Israel, a region with tons of issues involving, identity/religion and tons of negativity with race as well. You’d get an understanding of this stuff pretty easy. Coupled with the fact that he had use of the internet and overwatch, you get exposed to a ton of stuff.

There’s no way to reasonably say that some part of him didn’t understand it was bad.

1

u/JustStartinOut Apr 06 '18

I disagree. I think those same reasons you listed are reasons why he could have reasonably not realized it was intensive. He could have spent too much time playing games online (and not necessarily being exposed to the outside world) and was never in a place with a large Western Asian population. I don't think it's unreasonable to say he didn't understand it was bad.

4

u/involving Apr 05 '18

I’m sure most people agree that he truly didn’t understand that the gesture was offensive. But should he have understood? I think yes. Kids learn about racial issues in school, they use the internet. Expecting people to know that imitating the physical features of another race (by doing a gesture like this, or blackface etc.) is not a nice thing to do is not an unreasonably high expectation.

A lot of native Koreans (like Asher) were offended by Eqo’s gesture. South Korea is not a highly multicultural country so you would think most people would not be exposed to racism and therefore be unaware of this gesture. But recognising this gesture as being offensive is still part of their consciousness because that’s part of being keyed into the world around you.

-2

u/afouisme Apr 05 '18

how is there no world where Eqo didn't know? lol. Dude, in most countries where racial diversity is almost inexistant, most ppl doesn't know that this gesture is insensitive.

-1

u/klasbo Apr 05 '18

Here is my "reading" of EQO, based on my cultural background and the context I saw in the clip:

Someone asked "are you korean?", and he answered "No, even when I apply an outdated stereotype on my own face you can clearly see it doesn't work. I wish it did, because then I would be as good as the koreans in the league..."

-2

u/JetSetJamerson Apr 06 '18

there's no world where Eqo doesn't understand

He's from Israel. East Asian population of Israel makes up for less than .3%. This is plausibly a world where they don't have after school specials or prominent critical discourse about racial sensitivity towards East Asians.

4

u/nashfrostedtips + Defiant/Team Canada — Apr 06 '18

Contorting your physical features to imitate those of another ethnic group is not something that passes the common sense test of acceptability.

-1

u/JetSetJamerson Apr 06 '18

And how long did that take to become common sense in a place like say the United States? How long did it take us as a nation to finally start talking about it and agreeing that this shit ain't right. Do you think the same discussion was taking place at the same time across the world? No, globalization didn't lead to homogenization of norms and "common sense". It takes time for societies to witness, learn, and adjust.