Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[u/ituralde_]

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

[u/MrSumada]

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

While I agree with the crux of your argument, I want to point out that the gaming community as a whole can feel pretty unwelcoming if you're a minority. Trust me, I am one. I'm sorry if you consider the drama and consternation too much to handle, but for many minorities these actions have been a relief to see.

[u/ituralde_ → u/MrSumada]

I'll admit, I'm not a minority and I will never understand what it means to be one.

What I've experienced relatively recently though is moving out to a rural community. Most of my life I've lived in fairly liberal places and what really shocked me was how people legitimately didn't think twice and just assumed certain things. Perfectly otherwise normal people had all kinds of crazy ideas about things they'd never experienced. These people weren't closed minded, they legitimately had no experience that corrected their mistaken perspectives and often had authorities that they should have been able to trust tangentially encouraging their fucked up understanding of the world.

I literally sat down with an adult who thought everyone in Germany made the same salary regardless of profession, all because they heard "Germany is socialist".

In my mind, a proper racist cannot be allowed to exist in a healthy community. The only treatment is expulsion until they reform on their own.

But for someone who is an otherwise potentially decent person who, for whatever reason, makes a poor judgement call when it comes to how they behave? That's someone that is potentially correctable. Teachable. This isn't someone that should be forced onto the other side of the battle lines of decency.

What I saw in my local community was otherwise decent folk getting pushed into the corner of the likes of Donald Fucking Trump because of they were dismissed as rural racists.

If we carry an expectation of higher and better behavior, you can reach these people without putting them on the defensive. You can correct ignorance instead of alienating them.

This is a battle we shouldn't have to fight but it's actually the case that the gap in what we see as common sense can truly be that extreme.

So any time we can build a story of a role model of hundreds or thousands of young people learning a lesson on how to treat others with basic decency? I think we should seize it and use it to help make our community better.

This is our carrot.

Those who refuse to reform? They absolutely deserve the stick.

[u/Lipat97 → u/ituralde_]

These people weren't closed minded, they legitimately had no experience that corrected their mistaken perspectives and often had authorities that they should have been able to trust tangentially encouraging their fucked up understanding of the world.

In law, a bad upbringing is not an excuse for being a pedophile, or a murderer. And its the information age, am I really supposed to pity the ignorant?

And yes, there's a difference between being a racist and being racist. Both Xqc and EQO were being racist. They deserve shit for that. They should be old enough to not get caught up in the semantics.

[u/ituralde_ → u/Lipat97]

For what it's worth, I never (meant to) imply that punishments weren't appropriate. They were spot on and necessary.

The thing is, the punishment is only the first part of the solution.

The reason I'm trying to highlight the distinction I'm making is that, if you tell a person that they are racist, they won't accept that.

Racism is pretty obviously and transparently evil and pretty much nobody sits back and thinks of themselves that way. Certainly I don't think that's what we see in this case.

When you characterize a person (instead of their actions) as racist, it doesn't jive with what they know about their own intentions. They get defensive and don't take responsibility because they know their own thoughts.

When you confront them with the nature of their actions, it takes intentions out of the picture. They can still take responsibility for their actions and learn from their mistakes without having to swallow something they know isn't true about their character.

If you want someone to reform, you have to get them to buy in or they (like XQC did) won't get past the hurdle of differentiating racist actions vs racist character.

[u/Lipat97 → u/ituralde_]

if you tell a person that they are racist, they won't accept that.

I get what you're saying, but that doesn't make them not racist. By that logic, I shouldn't call KKK members racist either, because they don't like being called racist either.

They get defensive and don't take responsibility because they know their own thoughts.

That's for XQC's friends to convert him. The community and especially Blizzard have no obligation to be his babysitter. If he can't shape up, then this simply isn't the place for him. If XQC's excuse for not reforming is "But they called me racist and that made me defensive!" that makes him a dumbass.

If you want someone to reform

This is my problem with your whole thing. Why is his reformation anyone else's responsibility? HE should want to reform, whether we want him to reform or not should be completely irrelevant. He needs to get his shit together, you can't blame Blizzard when he doesn't. Yes, there's a way they could have handled the situation, but honestly this isn't really something they should be taking into consideration. Your making him out to have some super fragile ego in which he loses control over some silly shit; Blizzard shouldn't have tiptoe around a fragile ego to write their punishments.

And this applies to EQO as well.

[u/dot-pixis → u/ituralde_]

I'll admit, I'm not a minority and I will never understand what it means to be one.

You don't say? You made that abundantly clear when you started this thread.

[u/ituralde_ → u/dot-pixis]

So? Enlighten me. I'm trying to learn like everyone else. Let's talk, let's not descend to /r/politics level sniping.

[u/dot-pixis → u/ituralde_]

I would suggest asking people if racism and racial insensitivity are the same thing, then, instead of strongly staking the claim that they aren't.

I would suggest taking a growth mindset and trying to reach out to understand instead of to be understood.

This entire post is about how the concept of racism makes you feel; try asking those who it affects how they feel about it.

There's a lot to learn using this approach.

[u/-Shinanai- → u/dot-pixis]

It really boils down to how you actually define "racism" and "racial insensitivity". For me, racism is something that's clearly done with intent, while racial insensitivity can be "I don't care", "I'm just kidding" or "I don't even know this was considered an insult".

The line between the "I don't care"s and actual racists is very, very thin. If people know something is insulting, yet keep doing it because they are lazy / don't personally think it's as bad as it sounds / whatever other reasons they might have, they are still being disrespectful and even if they don't actually hate the people they insult, the fact of the matter is that they are still knowingly and willingly insulting them.

Jokes, I would say, are innocent, as long as they don't cross certain lines. For example, when I was in India with a couple of friends, we sometimes referred to ourselves in private as "white monkeys". This would probably sound racist to some outside observers, while in reality the name was coined when we visited the local zoo - one that was in a non-touristy part of the town - and the other visitors were literally more interested in us than in the animals.

The "I didn't even know" part is where I generally see a LOT of overreaction, misunderstanding and witch hunting. A couple of examples:

• I've seen a lot of people casually use the word "Jap", thinking it's simply short for Japanese and not knowing that it's actually derogatory. It happens a lot on anime related forums, even by people who adore anything and everything Japanese. When pointing out that it's actually racist, the most common reaction is apologizing profoundly and never using the term again.

• 50 Cent, while in Hungary, tweeted a photo of a bag of candy called "Negro" he saw in a store. Predictably, most of the comments were outraged, some even mistaking the picture of the chimney sweep on the packaging to a black man being hanged (like, wtf). In truth, the candy is named after its inventor, Pietro Negro. It also refers to the color of the candy (it's black due to it's high active carbon content) and its marketing slogan "chimney sweep of the throat" and has absolutely nothing to do with race.

• There was a recent incident when J.J. Redick appeared to say "NBA chink fans in China" in a video where several NBA players were wishing happy lunar new year. He later apologized and said that he was intending to say "NBA Chinese fans" but it sounded weird, so he changed it mid-sentence to "NBA fans in China"... so the result was something like "NBA Chin.. fans in China". If anything, I'd say this was a mistake on the editor's part (they should have noticed it sounded wrong), but there were clearly no ill intentions.

• Another recent scandal that was blown way out of proportion was H&M's UK webshop advertising a sweatshirt with the words "coolest monkey in the jungle" on a black child model. Most of those who immediately grabbed their pitchforks were unaware that in the UK the word "monkey" is a common term for lively children. Was it intended as insulting? Hell, no. Should someone in H&M's marketing division have said "waaaait a minute, guys... people will totally misunderstand and lose their shit over this"? Absolutely.

I can see how some people would feel insulted by these, especially without knowing the context. Still, there's a colossal difference between people who mean no harm (be it due to lack of knowledge on their part or misinterpretation on the public's part) and those who actually hate and discriminate against people of certain races.

[u/ituralde_ → u/dot-pixis]

Let me expand then a bit on my perspective.

I recently moved out from a liberal part of town to the conservative heartland that elected Donald Trump.

Within my own liberal echo chamber, these were all a bunch of racist white people who were sick of a black president being in office for 8 years and wanted their malicious sort of revenge.

Living out here - these people aren't evil. They are legitimately ignorant from a perspective of "not informed". I've had fascinating conversations with people I'd never have normally talked to and it's clear they simply - for the most part - lack the same perspective I have.

The one thing I noticed? They hated being characterized as racist. They don't think of themselves as racist because they don't think about other races. They hear shit down the grapevine of the grapevine (if not outright untrustworth information sources) and make do trying to form opinions about shit entirely foreign to their experience.

They come to conclusions to the best of their ability and are never challenged on it.

These aren't bad people, but the only contact they have with the rest of the world is to be dismissed by the ivory tower as a bunch of ignorant hick rednecks and all the stereotypes that come along with that.

You want to correct their ignorance? You talk them through it. They are honest, positive folk who are more receptive to new ideas than the stereotypes would have you think. They may have wrong ideas about more than just matters of race, but they aren't this conspiratory evil organizing to undermine progress in America.

These are people that need broadened horizons, some education, and some goddamn acceptance. They don't need to be preached at or talked down to.

When we draw battle lines on racial lines we alienate these people. We turn them away. We subconsciously reinforce the worst of the ideas they have about the world outside their community. We shut them out when we should be reaching out.

The end result? We have two and a half years more of Donald Trump because the national democratic party couldn't get its stick out of its ass long enough to do anything other than stereotype these people.

---

That's a long story but the lesson is this - we don't overcome racism by preaching to the choir who already knows its bad. We do it by reaching out to those who clearly haven't figured that shit out already and look to open their eyes.

[u/mayoneggz → u/ituralde_]

You didn't listen to a thing /u/dot-pixis said. Your response isn't you trying to grow, it's you trying to tell other people what to do despite never experiencing things from their perspective. Your post comes off as patronizing.

They hated being characterized as racist. They don't think of themselves as racist because they don't think about other races.

Boo fucking hoo. These are the same people who complain about people being too PC and oversensitive about race. And people are supposed to care if they get their feelings hurt when called out? Most people don't say racially insensitive things out of the blue. They say them because they think them. It doesn't matter if it's subconscious or out of ignorance, it's still defined as racism.

And by the way, a racist person doesn't have to be hateful. They don't have to be evil, or unwilling to change, or anything you described. A lot of racism, as you said, is from sheer ignorance. A lot of racism is erased simply through broadening their experiences or talking with whatever group the racist is prejudiced against. But sometimes it's necessary to do a little introspection. Sometimes we subconsciously think less about certain people without really understanding why, or that we're doing it in the first place.

This is why we shouldn't be simplifying the definition of racism down to something as banal as "Racism is believing awful things about some group". That's the definition people use to assure themselves that they can't possibly be racist, because it's so abstract and cartoonish that it can't possibly apply to them. Racism isn't always a conscious decision, and using narrow definitions to avoid offending people who don't want to be called racist only perpetuates the problem.

[u/allprologue → u/mayoneggz]

I just checked his initial post again and it only gets worse with the edits. Now he literally starts off telling people they can’t read if they have a problem with his post.

[u/[deleted] → u/mayoneggz]

These are the same people who complain about people being too PC and oversensitive about race. And people are supposed to care if they get their feelings hurt when called out?

Generalizing a bit, bud

[u/ituralde_ → u/mayoneggz]

I don't disagree with most of what you said. You've entirely missed the point of the distinction I'm trying to make (re: action vs character) but I'm inferring that you aren't interested in that distinction anyways.

Your "boo fucking hoo" is the exact attitude that turns people off before they are ever willing to sit down and listen to you.

If you want to make change you can't start by alienating your target audience.

If you want moral masturbation, by all means drive out to red country and tell everyone how fucked up they are. If you want to make a difference, maybe start by trying to treat them with the same sort of respect and inclusiveness with which you want them to treat others.

Ever seen one of those angry preachers yelling from a street corner about how everyone around them is going to hell? Do you think they convert anyone?

[u/mayoneggz → u/ituralde_]

Dude, people aren't missing the point. We get it. We just disagree. It's really not that hard to understand or as insightful as you might think.

Your actions are an extension of your character. Trying to brush off racism by saying "well it's just an action, that's not really a measure of his character" and "well that's just racial insensitivity, it's not real racism" are just making excuses and come off as trying to brush the issue aside. I know that might not be what you meant, but that's what your words said.

When people say somebody is being racist, they don't mean they can never change. They don't mean that they are a horrible person beyond redemption. They mean that that person has racial prejudices that manifest themselves in the real world. That's it. The goal is to call the person out and shame them so that they learn it's not acceptable. You can argue that they should do so more kindly, or try to do it in a way that doesn't isolate the racist person. And that's all good. No one here is claiming that the best thing to do is yell and preach. But minorities shouldn't have to avoid calling out someone as racist just because it might hurt their feelings. That's just coddling the behavior. Trying to play a semantics game just to avoid the word "racist" is silly and just tells the person that what they said or did wasn't that bad.

[u/antennanarivo → u/mayoneggz]

Your response isn't you trying to grow, it's you trying to tell other people what to do despite never experiencing things from their perspective. Your post comes off as patronizing.

This is why we shouldn't be simplifying the definition of racism down to something as banal as "Racism is believing awful things about some group".

Sounds a lot like you are telling someone what to do whilst ignoring their perspective.

[u/Meat-brah → u/antennanarivo]

lol, delete this

[u/[deleted] → u/dot-pixis]

Aww are your poor minority feelings hurt? Have you been victimized by someone on the internet? Man up

[u/dot-pixis → u/[deleted]]

I'm also not a minority, but I know the difference here- since I don't know from personal experience, it's important to listen to and ask minorities instead of making assertions about something you don't know anything about.

[u/antennanarivo → u/dot-pixis]

Ok, as someone from a minority, I assume you will listen when I say that you shouldn't be dismissing OP, who has a reasonable point.

I've personally been mocked in the same manner that EQO acted, I've had that personal experience. However, too many people react viscerally at the first sight of 'racism', and fail to think about the intentions behind it. These people will not care whether you really hate and want to mock minorities, or whether you made an ignorant mistake, they will just condemn you outright. That is clear even from this comment section. It doesn't require you to be a minority to understand that, and from a minority viewpoint that has suffered discrimination, it is not good enough.

The post is valid, and it is a cop-out to point to someone's non-membership of a group to try to dismiss it.

[u/dot-pixis → u/antennanarivo]

You're right, what I did was a cop-out. I'm bad at using the internet to actually hold intelligent discourse. (No /s here)

My stance is that ignorant mistakes create an environment which perpetuates further problematic behavior. The balance of power is so out of whack that non-minorities don't even think about whether their actions hurt others, because they really don't have to.

I guess that's where the non-member argument comes out- OP made some really strong assertions that go against the academic literature on the topic, written by minorities. That pushed my buttons a bit- work has been done by people who have experienced discrimination and who have put a lot of effort into studying race relations, and would strongly disagree with OP who has neither the academic or personal experience to back these ideas up.

[u/antennanarivo → u/dot-pixis]

This is a strongly moral issue, and academic literature has no authority in this area. What is morally right is a concept every person has to grapple with individually. And neither academic prestige nor minority status gives a person the ability to overrule someone when it comes to moral reasoning.

That is not to say that different perspectives are not invaluable in helping us understand the right way to proceed. It is to say that minority perspectives are also not infallible, no matter how experienced or researched. If his arguments are wrong, point that out, rather than looking at his majority status, which is irrelevant. He would be equally capable of being wrong if he were a minority.

My stance is that ignorant mistakes create an environment which perpetuates further problematic behavior. The balance of power is so out of whack that non-minorities don't even think about whether their actions hurt others, because they really don't have to.

As for this, the OP doesn't actually seem to disagree. He says it was appropriate for xQc and EQO to be punished, because their mistakes are consequential.

But he is just trying to draw some nuances, rather than treating all of 'racism' as one equally bad thing.

[u/[deleted] → u/dot-pixis]

Nowhere in the post did he say what either of them did was right, now stop being offended in behalf of other people

[u/dot-pixis → u/[deleted]]

Maybe it's not just about eSports, and maybe it matters.

[u/MrSumada → u/ituralde_]

I agree with a lot of this. Keep fighting that good fight.

But for someone who is an otherwise potentially decent person who, for whatever reason, makes a poor judgement call when it comes to how they behave? That's someone that is potentially correctable. Teachable. This isn't someone that should be forced onto the other side of the battle lines of decency.

Highlighting this because the fines that OWL, Dallas, Fusion, etc are handing out, I believe are part of the process of this teaching that your talking about. That's part of why I was happy to see the fines. After XQC's first fine I was really hoping he could learn and grow from the experience, and when I saw him starting in stage 2, I was stoked. It unfortunately didn't pan out, and I think it's fair to say that XQC is resistant to maturing, but that was certainly what I wanted to see out of the ban.

I don't think these punishments forever harm these players and their careers. EQO will be back soon. XQC still has his following. But maybe these punishments will teach the players something, while making the OWL an experience more comfortable minorities.

[u/ituralde_ → u/MrSumada]

YES absolutely. Carrot and stick - the fines are part of the picture and absolutely appropriate.

I hope XQC finds a mentor and grows because both he and his fans could learn something positive from all of this if the right things come together. As things stand, he has earned the punishments he's received.

[u/GoDM1N → u/MrSumada]

I don't fully agree. As Sam Harris has said in the past, how can you tell the difference between a racist, or sexist, and someone who's just an asshole? Personally I do believe there's a difference. I'd be willing to bet the majority of the time the person who has been deemed racist, sexist, homophobic etc is just as likely to act the same way towards "their own kind". You know, like xQc.

[u/MrSumada → u/GoDM1N]

I never called XQC racist. So I'm not sure what you disagree with.

I do think some of his behavior contributes to this culture in gaming that's uncomfortable for minorities.

But regardless, I've heard this argument before and I'll respond like I always do. Being racist, sexist, homophobic, or an asshole are NOT mutually exclusive. You can be several of these things at once.

So if someone says derogatory things towards a minority, they don't get a free pass because they also say derogatory things toward their accountant.

[u/GoDM1N → u/MrSumada]

I think your missed my point.

For one, no, I didn't t imply you thought xQc was racist. He's just an asshole. I think the majority of people who are called racist, in general not just in video games, are just assholes. Sure, you can be any combination of racist, sexist etc, but you can also just be an asshole and I think in the vast majority of cases where people are accused of racism etc that's the case. The anonymity of the internet, imo, is the main driving force behind this. People can act however the want and get away with it. Nobody is worried about something they said in trade chat with the sole intent to piss someone off just bacuse to effect their daily life

[u/MrSumada → u/GoDM1N]

You literally said: "Personally I do believe there's a difference. I'd be willing to bet the majority of the time the person who has been deemed racist, sexist, homophobic etc is just as likely to act the same way towards "their own kind". You know, like xQc."

So yes, you did bring up XQC being labelled as racist as a response to my post. I didn't miss your point.

[u/GoDM1N → u/MrSumada]

What you said

I never called XQC racist.

My reply

I didn't imply you thought xQc was racist.

I'm saying YOU never did. People, however, have in fact labeled him as all sorts of things.