r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I got “Ching Chong, small dicked chink” yelled at me at least once a week from 3rd grade to 8th grade. I went to school in the inner city, so not the greatest place. I was a minority among minorities.

But those were kids who grew up not knowing better.

When you’re on the stage or in stream and more or less indirectly representing a multibillion company’s image, you need to think very carefully, which is extremely difficult. But it’s just something you have to do.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

you need to think very carefully, which is extremely difficult.

I think this is overstatement. They only need to think very carefully if they're brimming with racist thoughts and feelings.

We're not asking OWL players to critically think about and discuss racism culture, which would difficult, we're just asking them to not say and do racist things. If that's a high ask of an OWL player, that's a problem.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Casual racism is everywhere. It takes careful thinking to stop it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Did you read OP's post? Casual insensitivity is common. 99% of people arent racist just because their ancestors were. The left likes to say america is a racist place even though it isn't and institutionalized racism is about as common as measles. I am tired of being called a racist just because I am a white guy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Institutional racism is alive and well. I don't know how you can deny its existence.

Nowhere in here is anyone saying you are racist for being white. If you feel that way then maybe think about why you feel that way.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Institutional racism alive and well? It is literally illegal. Do you know what institutional means? Listen, no one is personally calling me a rascist but I see people calling others digusting racsist/bigots for stupid shit all the time on this site.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

We have different definitions of institutional racism.

Institutional does not have to mean encoded in law.

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

even if it did have to mean encoded in law, it still is. Just in different words, like 'voter id' or 'stand your ground'

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u/NeV3RMinD Apr 06 '18

It's fucking hilarious how people call voter ID laws racist and then pretend they're not racist. You people are benevolent white supremacists.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

yeah, but those aren't overtly racist. they exist to take away the rights of black people, but removed from context they look sort of reasonable.

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

yep, that's what it looks like in modern society.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Man are you straight anti western society?

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

Yeah I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if you're being called a racist it's not because you're white. You got some thinking to do, if you ever decide you want to.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Also you implying that I am a unthinking moron for disagree with you which is so fucking typically for leftists on this site. You refuse to even have serious conversations about these topics like the OP recommended. It is easier just to dismiss any wayward opinion as stupid backward rightwing propaganda.

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

and ANOTHER THING!

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

What are you implying?

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

i'm laughing at you replying to me twice. don't worry it's not because you're white

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I replied twice because it seemed inappropriate to edit a comment with a completely new thought. Get over yourself bro...

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18 edited Apr 05 '18

I wasn't being called a rascist but people like me were for utterly petty shit. Of course now you are saying that I am a rascist for even implying that I think this calling "everyone is racist game" is wrong. Thank you, for just prooving my point. All I said was that I am white and these people come out and saying that I am wrong for thinking I am not racist even though they know nothing about me. You guys need to stop this. You are playing the intersectional politics game and it will bite you in the ass.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Ok, so we have a couple of problems here.

  1. the institutional racism comment. that's literally just not true. the most obvious example is that black people are given longer sentences for the same crimes, and despite their small proportion to the overall population in the country, make up most of its prisoners for drug-related offenses, and they are more likely to get pulled over despite getting traffic violations at the same rate, to name a few. this isn't institutional, but god help you if you're a black man and decide to carry a rifle in public

  2. only crazy people will see white and assume you are racist immediately. you say you feel attacked and are tired of being called racist, but why? if you're american, people who look like you make up most of the population and control most of the government.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I don't feel attacked by the mainstream by any means but you are delusional if you dont see certain elements that do preach about how american and whites are guilty of crimes against the world. I seems we are playing the game of these radical elements when we really ought not to.

As for the stats you sited I am not in a position to refute them, but I would suspect there is more too it than white racism.

For example more blacks getting arrested for drug offenses is almost certainly more to do the high rates of single motherhood in black communities. Also the stigma in the black community against "acting white" certainly doesnt help. The NY times recently reported on how black men get arrested more often even in the highest income brackets yet black women who are from wealthy backgrounds arent arrested more than their white counterparts. Surely that suggest race isn't the issue? Surely racist cops would be more racist to women than men? People like to say racist is the issue and it is institutional problems but I doubt it is the cause of the issue except in fringe cases.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I mean, if you want to look at european colonialism fucking over the world, look at

-opium in China

-the congo in Africa

-native Americans

which all have happened relatively recently, in the context of modern sociteties. people are not guilty for the crimes of their ancestors, but white people really have fucked over the people of everywhere they've gone.

Of course, there are more factors, but institutional racism is huge. Why do you think black communities in America in such poor positions when Africans who come to America don't seem to face the same challenges? Slavery ended 150 years ago. MLK died 50 years ago. That was only 2 and less than 1 generations ago. Not enough time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Come on just say it. I am racist because my ancestors were. You imply it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Nope! I don't believe that, otherwise I'd be racist because Chinese people are generally quite racist.

Sorry man, not going to validate your wanting to feel oppressed today.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I don't feel oppressed lol. I well aware of the history of the west, I literally minored in history. I just dont think that citing shit that happened when I wasnt even alive is relevant. You guys say there so much institutional racism when the evidence suggest that it was at an all time low before obama (not saying this was something obama caused).

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

you mentioned "crimes against the world" so i felt like bringing it up was relevant. people are apprehensive about these things.

just because something is getting better doesn't mean it's good. it's still bad.

are you american? your viewpoint seems distinctly non-american honestly.

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

you're way to defensive and emotional on behalf of white people and that's coming from somewhere weird, that's what people are trying to tell you. even if people were going around calling you racist for no reason, which you have been told multiple times is not the case, literally what is it costing you, in comparison to people who actually suffer from the effects of racism in their daily lives.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

So if some leftist says I am racist becuase white people used to do fucked up shit, I should just accept that? Isnt that assuming I am going to act a certain way because of my skin color? You see where this is going? It is intersectional politics and it is losing game. You should judge someone by their individual traits, not their history

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

it's weird that you don't want to be prematurely judged by people who you are dismissing as "some leftists".

you are spiraling right in front of us. relax, drink some tea, go laugh at a poor person, whatever calms you down

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Christ bro, when you Spout the prevailing left logic of the day, I am going to call it what it is. That isnt an attack at you. Saying I laugh at poor people is utterly insane. It is impossible to have an actual discussion with people like you. You default to insults at every turn. You people think you way is the only possible path.

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

ok this has been fun

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