r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

If someone called me Asian-like I would perceive it as a compliment. I remember someone asked sinatraa how good he is thinks he is, and he said he thought he was as good as the Koreans. Was that an insult in disguise? Asian = bad right?

I really can't comprehend how there are so many fragile people out there that can be absolutely destroyed by a person saying the wrong word or someone touching their face wrong or seeing the wrong emoji at the wrong time. I pine for you all. I don't know how any of you can get through the day without having a mental breakdown.

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u/ImReallyGrey Apr 05 '18

Ok? Is what I said wrong?

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

Yes, the somehow being a compliment part. You're implying it was intended as an insult.

Prove to me he has an intent to offend.

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u/ImReallyGrey Apr 05 '18

Bro I can already tell that anyone who tells you why making fun of a race is an insulting and offensive thing to do will be an sjw fragile snowflake to you. He did a shitty thing that he should know is incredibly offensive. I don't want to explain to anyone why racially targeted mockery is a bad thing that should be discouraged.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

For fuck's sake.

I don't want to explain to anyone why racially targeted mockery is a bad thing that should be discouraged.

Prove it. Prove he was targeting Asians with the intent to mock them. If you can prove he did this in an attempt to intentionally disparage a large group of people, I will agree with you that he deserves the punishment.

My claim is he had no such intentions, that you subjectively assert that someone could have mistaken what he was doing as that, and because it is plausible that someone else could have mistaken his actions as that due to a deficit in their own mental faculties, this kid is being punished. Essentially, because someone else cannot grasp context, this kid should lose money.

Please prove me wrong.

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u/ImReallyGrey Apr 05 '18

The video proof oh him mocking koreans by mimicking a racial feature of theirs isn't enough? C'mon dude what are you even talking about

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

How is imitation mocking? Do you not understand the definition of the word?

mock·ing
adjective
making fun of someone or something in a cruel way; derisive.

Show me the cruelty, contempt or ridicule. If I imitate the way EQO plays am I mocking him?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.

I take it Oscar Wilde is just some retard with no clue then?

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u/ImReallyGrey Apr 05 '18

lmao are you joking? Do you feel the same way about blackface?

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

I don't think Robert Downey JR was racist because of his role in Tropic Thunder. Perhaps some people found it racially insensitive, while others found it hilarious and inoffensive. He wasn't ridiculing black people with his performance, so I take no issue with it.

It kind of depends on context. Have you heard of context? It's kind of important. Blackface is certainly bad if your intent is to make black people look like otherworldly animals explicitly distinct from whites.

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u/ImReallyGrey Apr 05 '18

Why did you use the one example of it being used in a way that can be seen to be making fun of racism in hollywood and not all the examples of it being used to mock black people? Is blackface a compliment to black people in your mind? Because that seems to be what you're saying.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

? Did you not read the 2nd paragraph where I stated the scenario where I'm not OK with it?

Are you also saying that there exists a context where blackface is OK, where you previously would have told me no context for making slanty eyes could be OK and context is irrelevant?

And the reason I used that example is because context matters. Seriously, look it up.

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u/ImReallyGrey Apr 05 '18

Comtext does matter, but the comparison you're making between Tropic Thunder and Eqo making slanty eyes on stream is just stupid mate. This isn't going anywhere, you have it in your mind that what EQO did was complimentary and god knows you're not gonna listen to reason.

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u/Voidward Apr 06 '18

Sorry friend, you're the one not listening. I'm not saying it's complementary, I'm saying there was nothing derogatory about it. Imitating an Asian characteristic is not inherently racist any more than squatting, eating sunflower seeds and drinking vodka is inherently racist against Russians.

You're willing to accept Robert Downey Jr wasn't racist. He imitated a black person without any malice and without it being complementary. EQO imitated an Asian person without any malice and without it being complementary. It's the same thing, you're just arbitrarily taking umbrage with one and not the other.

You've already conceded there was nothing wrong with a scenario nearly identical to this one. Only difference is one was in a theater with a celebrity, and the other was in a twitch stream with a pro gamer. Either both are racist, or neither are racist. I am unwilling to accept another answer here.

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