r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

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u/allprologue Geguri Dragons — Apr 05 '18

Yeah I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if you're being called a racist it's not because you're white. You got some thinking to do, if you ever decide you want to.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18 edited Apr 05 '18

I wasn't being called a rascist but people like me were for utterly petty shit. Of course now you are saying that I am a rascist for even implying that I think this calling "everyone is racist game" is wrong. Thank you, for just prooving my point. All I said was that I am white and these people come out and saying that I am wrong for thinking I am not racist even though they know nothing about me. You guys need to stop this. You are playing the intersectional politics game and it will bite you in the ass.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Ok, so we have a couple of problems here.

  1. the institutional racism comment. that's literally just not true. the most obvious example is that black people are given longer sentences for the same crimes, and despite their small proportion to the overall population in the country, make up most of its prisoners for drug-related offenses, and they are more likely to get pulled over despite getting traffic violations at the same rate, to name a few. this isn't institutional, but god help you if you're a black man and decide to carry a rifle in public

  2. only crazy people will see white and assume you are racist immediately. you say you feel attacked and are tired of being called racist, but why? if you're american, people who look like you make up most of the population and control most of the government.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I don't feel attacked by the mainstream by any means but you are delusional if you dont see certain elements that do preach about how american and whites are guilty of crimes against the world. I seems we are playing the game of these radical elements when we really ought not to.

As for the stats you sited I am not in a position to refute them, but I would suspect there is more too it than white racism.

For example more blacks getting arrested for drug offenses is almost certainly more to do the high rates of single motherhood in black communities. Also the stigma in the black community against "acting white" certainly doesnt help. The NY times recently reported on how black men get arrested more often even in the highest income brackets yet black women who are from wealthy backgrounds arent arrested more than their white counterparts. Surely that suggest race isn't the issue? Surely racist cops would be more racist to women than men? People like to say racist is the issue and it is institutional problems but I doubt it is the cause of the issue except in fringe cases.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I mean, if you want to look at european colonialism fucking over the world, look at

-opium in China

-the congo in Africa

-native Americans

which all have happened relatively recently, in the context of modern sociteties. people are not guilty for the crimes of their ancestors, but white people really have fucked over the people of everywhere they've gone.

Of course, there are more factors, but institutional racism is huge. Why do you think black communities in America in such poor positions when Africans who come to America don't seem to face the same challenges? Slavery ended 150 years ago. MLK died 50 years ago. That was only 2 and less than 1 generations ago. Not enough time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Come on just say it. I am racist because my ancestors were. You imply it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Nope! I don't believe that, otherwise I'd be racist because Chinese people are generally quite racist.

Sorry man, not going to validate your wanting to feel oppressed today.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I don't feel oppressed lol. I well aware of the history of the west, I literally minored in history. I just dont think that citing shit that happened when I wasnt even alive is relevant. You guys say there so much institutional racism when the evidence suggest that it was at an all time low before obama (not saying this was something obama caused).

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

you mentioned "crimes against the world" so i felt like bringing it up was relevant. people are apprehensive about these things.

just because something is getting better doesn't mean it's good. it's still bad.

are you american? your viewpoint seems distinctly non-american honestly.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I am american. What do you mean my opinion seems non-american?

Sure there are still problems with America, but these people want to tear everything apart because it is "oppressive" or institutionally racist when the evidence isn't there, AND it is the best bloody system we have managed to created after all this time. Like america isn't perfect but it is the most powerful and economically affluent place in the world outside of some small oil economies. I am against tearing it all down just because some people feel offended or discriminated against. Especially, when most of the issues are problems that individual communities need to fix, not something on the cumbersome federal level.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

what do you mean the evidence isn't there? it's definitely there.

america has stupid things like the two party system, just because the numbers make us seem like the best doesn't mean that there's not a lot of things wrong with america. i like living here and i wouldn't want to live anywhere else except maybe canada but it's possible to like where you live and still acknowledged it has deep-seated issues.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

I literally said america isn't perfect. We are agreeing...

The "evidence" of institutional racism is all most certainly more due to single motherhood in the black community and the stigma that black males face against "acting white". Affluent black males are arrested at the rates as whites making something like less than $25,000. Rich black women are arrested as the same rate as wealthy white women. Doesn't that suggest that skin color isn't the issue? There isn't a racist in america holding a gun up to a black guys head and forcing him to leave the women he just got pregnant. Why try to say that institutional racism is the issue when the much simpler and more logical answer is readily apparent.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

or maybe police see women as less threatening

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