r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

You're overreacting. It's obvious how offensive what EQO did to many people. You think it's some kind of compliment that he made slant eyes? How out of touch are you?

Are you ok with someone mocking you for being different?

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

Yes, I am the one that I'd overreacting. Clearly.

Is it obvious that what he did was intended to be offensive to many people? Is it obvious that he was ridiculing Asian people as a group by making slanty eyes? Or is it that people are stripping this of all context and reacting completely irrationally to this?

Yes I am OK with people saying things I don't like. It's called being a well adjusted adult.

Here, I have Ukrainian, Austrian, Russian and Tatar backgrounds. Have at it, do your worst. I love me some potatoes, I one of my grandparents could have been Hitler's best friend, and there's a good chance Stalin wiped out near a quarter of my relatives in the holodomor. Also, a quarter of my ancestry are borderline mongoloids. That's some good material, throw some ethnically charged insults my way I'll rate them on 1-10 scale, and if you actually manage to insult me, I'll give you a 9/11 rating. Good luck.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Does intent matter? There’s almost no context in which what he did is considered acceptable. I take it people have not insulted you in the same manner EQO did all your life. What context could make it ok? You say it as if it could be a good thing.

Do I think he’s a bad person? Don’t know, don’t know the guy. He’s also already received his punishment. I don’t care about that. It’s people who think that he did absolutely nothing wrong. Am I personally insulted by what he did? No, but he really shouldn’t be doing that.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

I think your attitude perpetuates the concept that there's something wrong with Asians. You attitude is racist.

If you think that being Asian is so terrible that even imitating it is supposed to be insulting, then you're helping keep the stereotype alive. I don't think there's anything wrong with Asians. If someone called me Asian, there would be no reason to interpret that as an insult. You seem to disagree. Being Asian is so insulting according to you and most people discussing this topic, that no one should ever accuse another person of being Asian. That insult is unbearable.

The context that would make it ok is the context in which people don't assume imitating characteristics of another race is in itself an insult.

There's a real slippery slope here that I don't want to travel down. Clearly it's also racist to imitate Asian accents right? Ok, what about other accents? Deep voice black guy? Seems ok today for most people, but if blackface isn't ok, why is a black guy voice ok? Then were do we go? Why wouldn't a southerner voice be discriminatory stereotyping? New Yorker voice? British voice? At that point, aren't all accents racist? So no one can do accents?

Cultural appropriation is already some retarded shit people one step to the left of your are trying to make a thing, can I not longer wear any clothing or hair styles that I don't have genetic ties to? Do we carry around a little passport with our genetic makeup, or maybe a nice little tattoo clearly indicating what race we are and aren't? This way we can tell what we can and can't do, and wear, and this is all progress towards ending racism?

How do you not see how absolutely ridiculous this is. You think clearly separating and segregating all races and behaviours is supposed to end racism? Being extremely sensitive about your race and trying to punish others to even acknowledge it is supposed to bring about equality? You people have LOST THE PLOT.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Nah, it's just that people have always made fun of Asians by doing what he did, so he shouldn't do it. Simple as that. You're making shit up.

And I've never cared about accent humor unless it's from someone who is using it as a mockery of the people who speak that way.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

People called me nerd in a disparaging manner when I was young. I was offended as a child by this. I've heard Uber use that term while casting. Do I get to take umbrage with this and demand he be fined? I mean, I know the context he was using it in is positive, but I hear context is utterly irrelevant. Nerd has been a disparaging term for DECADES prior to basically the last 10 years, and some people still use it that way.

I have a Russian background, and I used to have an accent but no longer do. Kids made fun of it when I first immigrated. Should I be taking offence every time one uses that accent? Or says suka blyat jokingly because it's a stereotype?

Seriously, where the fuck do you draw the lines that that certain speech needs to be made, essentially illegal, regardless of context?

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

You could, I'd be pretty pissed if people made fun of how I talked. What is offensive or isn't offensive is arbitrary. But in the specific context of EQO, he did it in a country where everyone sees what he did to be an insult. Should he not be reprimanded?

Also, he's representing multiple large companies that don't want someone to do something like what he did.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

So you'd advocate that I request Uber be fined for casually using the term nerd while casting, despite of it's long history as a disparaging term?

I mean, he's representing a large company, and most of the viewership consists of people who are into geek culture. Why use such an offensive term that might offend a large portion of the viewers?

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

No one is offended by it though. I’m proud of being called a nerd. You’re one guy. A lot of people were offended by EQO.

You’re making up a hypothetical that could never exist and is pointless to discuss.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

LOL

No one is offended by it though.

You think I'm the only person on the planet who got called nerd and was offended by it? Literally millions of kids had this said to them in order to make them feel shitty about who they are. There's thousands of movies in the 80's-90's where the nerd being ridiculed is basically the main plotline. You, personally not being offended negates this?

A lot of people were offended by EQO.

And I have some Asian background. It's not much, but one of my grandfathers absolutely had what could be described as slanty eyes. I am not offended by EQO's actions. So I'm personally not offended by what EQO did, does that negate what you're saying?

I’m proud of being called a nerd.

And literally BILLIONS of people are proud of being Asian and would not be offended by someone pointing out their race.

Argued with quite a few people today, and you've been by far the most intellectually dishonest. "this doesn't offend me personally, so it's fine even if it offends you" followed by "this offends someone else but not you, it's problematic!" So you advocate for things as long as they conform to your personal world view but have to have absolutely 0 internal consistency.

I don't think we're getting anywhere with this. Best of luck to you with this basic logical consistency thing in the future.

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u/[deleted] Apr 05 '18

Buddy, you are equating slant eyes and the word “nerd”. I bet you’re ok with white people saying the n word too.

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u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

I'm fine with Mark Twain using the N word. I'm fine with rappers using the N word. I'm fine with a journalistic reporting using the N word. I'm fine with a whole lot of uses of the N word as long as it isn't used to disparage black people.

C O N T E X T M A T T E R S

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