r/Competitiveoverwatch Apr 05 '18

Discussion Racism vs Racial Insensitivity in Esports

[EDIT 2] adding more explicit commentary because reading comprehension is hard.

The esports community has failed at this distinction and it has caused a lot of drama and consternation.

Racism is believing awful things about some group. [EDIT] Think of this as a measure of Character.

Racial insensitivity is saying something about a group that is offensive. [EDIT] Think of this as characterizing someones actions. You could also call this "racist actions", describing the actions a person took. I chose the phrasing to make a distinction between actions and character, not to pretend that this made the actions not racist.

[EDIT 2] The phrasing doesn't matter here and it's a shame I can't edit the title because people are caught up on this. The important distinction (again) is character judgement vs actions. Neither racist actions no racist character are something the community should tolerate. The distinction only matters in that someone who does not want to be known as racist will be willing to reform their racist or otherwise offensive behaviors when given the opportunity. That's why it's important to remember that, when it comes to Actions and Character:

These are not the same thing.

Both are incredibly important. Impact is more important than intent; it's important to be cognizant of how your actions are interpreted by the world around you. [EDIT 2] This means that being racially sensitive is a terrible thing and merits the punishments that have been getting given out.

That said, it's similarly inappropriate to always assume racism in the presence of racial insensitivity. [EDIT 2] This means that not everyone who says something awful and punishment-worth is doing so out of outright racism. Young, dumb kids say and do dumb shit for reasons above and beyond being a terrible person.

The important behavior we want to teach to players and fans is that sensitivity matters, and we undermine that by accusing everyone who makes a mistake on the sensitivity front of being immediately racist/homophobic/etc.

Racial and other insensitivity is and should continue to be punished by the Overwatch league and its constituent teams. The important result of this should be that lessons are learned, not that players are crucified.

Take a look at EQO's case - he made a mistake. For a lot of us, it's an obvious mistake but clearly not one he thought of. Both he and the Philadelphia Fusion made sincere responses to the mistake. This is a perfect example of how this shit should be handled. We as a community should also treat it as such, and while we should be harsh on players who do make these mistakes, we should also encourage these young people from various backgrounds to learn from such mistakes. Let them be examples to their fans, don't bury them in negativity.

This is really important.

[EDIT 2] For clarity since this has been all over the comments, EQO not only fucked up bigtime through his actions, he made it worse by trying to play coverup. The good response absolutely was at the behest of some authority figure in the Fusion, and that's exactly what we should expect of organizations in the league. We, as a community, should take a trust-but-verify approach - give the Fusion credit for their swift response and give EQO the benefit of the doubt that this was a lapse of judgement, but also keep an eye out that the final statement was sincere.

Take a look at XQC for another example.

In full disclosure, I don't like XQC. I don't like the majority of his fans. I'm probably naturally biased against him.

However, I don't think he's a racist, and I sympathize with the guy who is broken over being saddled with this label by the powers that be.

He made a mistake. Sure, he hasn't really shown that he understands this but at the same time, how the heck could he? He's being told he's racist which isn't something he's capable of identifying with. He doesn't share the beliefs he's being accused of, so how could he get anything from this?

He's not a racist. He made a huge fuckup and has been hounded by the community as if he's evil. He's not evil, he fucked up. He displayed poor judgement, that doesn't make him a bad person - it makes him human.

[EDIT 2] I thought this was clear from context but the important distinction is that he doesn't see him as a racist and continuing to accuse him of that worldview doesn't help anything. His actions WERE racist. You could say he was "acting racist" or "being racist" in reference to his actions if that terminology fits it better. Does he have a racist worldview? Only insofar as he clearly doesn't understand why it's important to be sensitive about how you show up publicly.

XQC isn't the first and EQO won't be the last to make these mistakes. So let's learn a lesson as a community and give these players the window to improve themselves and how they show up in public. Condemn the action, not the person - give them the window to reform. Let them acknowledge the difference between intent vs impact and use these examples to teach the community about why this matters.

Demonizing the people only undermines the opportunity for a lesson to be learned by the players and the community as a whole.

Let's maintain our standards, but enable our players to rise above careless behavior to those standards. Let's not saddle them eternally with the baggage of a mistake made of youth, ignorance, community-driven habit, and/or carelessness. Let's not make accusations of a person's character when they yet have the opportunity to grow from a poor choice.

[EDIT] This has gotten way more traction than I ever thought it would, so I'd like to clarify a few things in simple terms.

  1. The punishments were good and appropriate. I think the first reaction to negative behavior would be to stop it and punish. Only after should we look at how to rehabilitate bad behavior.

  2. The distinction I'm trying to draw here is the difference between Actions and Character. I think a redeemable Character can perform reprehensible actions. In the case someone does something reprehensible, we shouldn't shut the door on them redeeming themselves if they choose to accept responsibility and reform. That's really all I'm trying to say.

1.1k Upvotes

714 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

49

u/merrissey 8=============D ameng wuz here — Apr 05 '18

This line of thinking is so hilarious. "I can't wrap my brain around why people are offended by certain things and refuse to even attempt to broaden my perspective, so I'm just gonna act like everyone is so outrageously over reactionary that we're living in a dystopian pro censorship society!"

-16

u/Voidward Apr 05 '18

People can be as offended as they want. I can understand people being as offended by anything they want. You have the right to be as triggered by anything you choose. Some people are deathly afraid of balloons, and they have a right to be.

You don't have a right to compel the speech of others. This is something you don't understand. Feelings don't trump liberty and law. There's only one country in the world that has freedom of speech in it's laws and people like you are absolutely fine with stripping it over hurt feelings. I find that absolutely disgusting.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

We don't live in a dystopian pro censorship society, but people like you are certainly doing your best to push it in that direction. I can't grasp how you can watch 1984 and say "yeah that has no similarities to my advocacy that certain speech be punishable by fine or law. People probably should be literally punished for wrongthink, but that has no relation to this dystopian future the author was attempting to warn me of."

10

u/UglyDucklett Apr 06 '18 edited Apr 06 '18

See, the problem with this argument is that it's uh... Totally Wrong.

Free speech is a limitation placed on government, not on businesses or the people. You can't be jailed for making slanty eyes, and you have the right to vocally disagree with your government without being punished for it.

If blizzard wants to ban anyone who says the word "pepperoni" they are 100% allowed to do so. The community is run by a corporation, not the government, and abide by different laws.

And if we as an overwhelming majority decide that we don't want people who say or do disgusting shit in our physical or virtual communities, we are well within our rights to try and make it happen or to punish them in ways deemed acceptable by the laws governing those communities.

Our ability to have these protests and conversations is what is really protected by the first amendment, not some streamer's ability to say what they want on twitch or reddit.

-1

u/Voidward Apr 06 '18

And if we as an overwhelming majority decide

So, as long as my bubble agrees with me then I'm right. Because live revolves around reddit upvotes.

Good to know you can't be jailed for slant eyes, you can just lose your job, be branded a racist and be unhireable in the future. Thank God, it's so much worse getting free food in a box than getting no food under a bridge.

2

u/UglyDucklett Apr 07 '18

wisdom in numbers

1

u/Voidward Apr 07 '18

So might makes right. Ok, so Hitler did nothing wrong because he had more tanks, guns, and soldiers? Along with the German people reaching consensus that Jews were bad and they needed some more living space. I mean they had numbers, hence wisdom?

Thanks for your input, I'll take it into consideration that morality is what you can convince enough people to be correct.

3

u/UglyDucklett Apr 07 '18

no, because the entire world teamed up to punch hitler's face in. hitler is the person who was branded a racist and was decimated for it, and serves as proof that there are people who should be shunned for their actions. if he had won, god forbid, the history books might be singing his praises today.

and yes, morality is decided by the majority. you can have a problem with that all you like and wish it weren't true, but personally i take it as a good thing that we can change the world through speeches and protests convincing people to see things from new points of view.

1

u/Voidward Apr 07 '18 edited Apr 07 '18

LOL. So honor killing your daughter because she got raped, and hence dishonored your family, is cool by your account as long as that's what your culture believes. Raping children is cool as long as they're sold off as brides by their parents and sanction this. It appears you're are simply a morally bankrupt person convincing yourself you're the good guy.

The world didn't team up to punch Hitler in the face, they did their best to avoid going to war with Germany. He just thought he was invincible and attacked too fronts at the same time. By that logic, if the far right rises up, takes control and slaughters every leftist then you become wrong in everything you're telling me. Hence, it is completely impossible for you to have a correct position on absolutely anything because it is all subject to change. LOLOLIOLsrg.

You're conflating morality and cultural norms. I don't understand why everyone I'm talking with is conflating and oversimplifying everything. Is nuance really that hard? Either way, as far as I'm concerned, you've conceded this argument because it is literally impossible for you to preach morals about anything because your morals could be wrong tomorrow, there is no correct way to act, and we should all sway in the breeze and act however people around us pressure to act.

Officially,
Hitler did nothing wrong.*

*If he had won, or if nazis take over in the future. According to some redditor that "dislikes racism" only because he's culturally instructed to and not because it's actually wrong.

edit: I can't get over how monumentally stupid what you said is. Your position would have to literally be:

-There's nothing wrong with genocide unless someone stops you. Hoooooly shit.
-If your culture is cool with rape as a punishment for underdressing, then there's nothing wrong with it.
-If society devolves into anarchy and you've got the biggest gang, it's cool to roast infants over an open fire and cannibalise them.

I sincerely hope I never meet you in person, because you literally have no moral compass. I genuinely hope you have Jesus in your life. And I say this as an Atheist.

3

u/UglyDucklett Apr 07 '18

it's absolutely true that morals are ever-changing. there is no black-and-white morality, i'm not sure what fantasy world you exist in but i would like an invite to it, since it seems so much easier to make decisions there.

1

u/Voidward Apr 07 '18

I live in a wonderful fantasy world where I don't rationalize scenarios where raping children and commiting genocide against innocents is OK. I'd invite you. To come and visit, but in afraid you might start raping the children because no one told you it's not OK.