r/ConflictNews • u/SierraOscar • Jan 16 '15

Israel-Palestine Turkish PM says Israeli 'provocations' radicalising Muslim world

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/16/us-turkey-davutoglu-israel-idUSKBN0KP21920150116
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1

u/ThrowerMF Jan 16 '15

To them, Israel's mere existence is a provocation so I'm not surprised.

2

u/ErsatzAcc Jan 17 '15

Yes and to be fair the founding of Israel was far from some peaceful settlers moving to the empty desert that would become Israel.

Then again they lost so many wars against Israel that it might be time to admit that god is not on their side here.

1

u/c0mputar Jan 17 '15

I think we can firmly plant much of the blame for the successful creation of Israel at the feet of European institutional antisemitism during the 19th and 20th century, and which lasted even well after WW2.

1

u/ErsatzAcc Jan 17 '15

Oh yes absolutely, I agree 100%. I also doubt that Isreal would not have a hard time if it had been there forever.

But my point remains that those atrocities are what the main catalyst for today's situation.

You can't deny that they uprooted at least 700 000 Palestinians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

1

u/autowikibot Jan 17 '15

1948 Palestinian exodus:

The 1948 Palestinian exodus, also known as the Nakba (Arabic: النكبة‎, al-Nakbah, lit. "disaster", "catastrophe", or "cataclysm"), occurred when more than 700,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1948 Palestine war. The term nakba also refers to the period of war itself and events affecting Palestinians from December 1947 to January 1949.

The very precise number of refugees is a matter of dispute but around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (50 percent of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes.

The causes are also a subject of fundamental disagreement between Arabs and Israelis. Factors involved in the exodus include Jewish military advances, attacks against Arab villages and fears of another massacre by Zionist militias after Deir Yassin, :239–240 which caused many to leave out of panic; Arab evacuation orders; expulsion orders by Israeli authorities; the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes, the collapse in Palestinian leadership, and an unwillingness to live under Jewish control.

Image from article i

Interesting: List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus | Zochrot | Palestine refugee camps

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1

u/c0mputar Jan 17 '15

Pfft, the Palestinian refugees are probably the only refugees in history that remain refugees because it is politically advantageous for everyone except the Israelis and refugees.

There have been millions of people uprooted up and down the annals of history and yet for some reason the Palestinians are put on some kind of pedestal, forever refugees, with their own UN committees and funding, of which they get far more than any other group even though there are millions of refugees worldwide. No commission or care for the 800k Jewish refugees that were expulsed from the Arab states, just to name one of dozens of refugee groups, technically speaking. How about the 10k Israelis uprooted in '05? No one cares about them, except Israelis I suppose.

I know it was a crime back in '48, I just find it quite pathetic that it is more than 60 years later, a couple generations later, and somehow they remain as refugees. At this point, that is as much of an indictment of the neighboring Arab states and the world, UN specifically, as it is of Israel.

I don't dispute the Israeli crime, especially since much of those 700k were likely forcibly evacuated by the IDF, but it is now >60 years later, if the Palestinians want to keep using the past as part of their crusade for the future, then they'll remain in the past. No other refugee group is so determined to stay in the past.

1

u/ErsatzAcc Jan 17 '15

It is not like Israel is really setting an example in "leaving the past behind" by still happily accepting reparations for the Shoah.

Jokes aside you are right of course and that is the point. But if we want to get anywhere in this conflict we have to start acknowledging all the wrong doings of every side involved. Right now everyone is on his side of the trenches claiming moral superiority.