Bitcoin Fees Hit Satoshi-Era Levels as Blockspace Demand Evaporates

[u/KIG45]

https://beincrypto.com/bitcoin-daily-transactions-fees-fall-to-2011-levels/

[u/SenseiRaheem]

DEX and CEX gonna start asking for tips soon lol

[u/KIG45 → u/SenseiRaheem]

Absolutely

[u/mcgravier]

Every time bitcoin fees reach stupid high levels, users move away to competing cryptocurrencies. This is the end game...

[u/solidstatepr8 → u/mcgravier]

Everyone already forgot total disasters like ordinals that immediately jammed up the chain to the point of being unusable. The network is perfectly fine as long as no one attempts to use it seriously.

[u/Realistic_Fee_00001 → u/mcgravier]

🎯

In the end the narrative shift turned out even more devastating than the blocksize limit. Today Maxis tell you: "It is ok to spend custodial"

[u/mcgravier → u/Realistic_Fee_00001]

"It is ok to spend custodial"

And custodial wants KYC, AML, and all other shit that noone wants to deal with

[u/Realistic_Fee_00001 → u/mcgravier]

Exactly. What I don't get is, it is easy to understand that saying it is ok to spend custodial means to give up all control again. It's like saying the house is mine but I have to ask a guard every time I want to get out. It's just like prison.

[u/Toamtocan]

Good time to consolidate UTXOs.

[u/meshies → u/Toamtocan]

How do you do this?

[u/Coiiiiiiiii → u/meshies]

Send yourself all your bitcoin

[u/Realistic_Fee_00001 → u/Toamtocan]

And ruin your privacy...

[u/Frustrated_Bettor]

Is this bad? It sounds bad

[u/Competitive_Ebb_4124 → u/Frustrated_Bettor]

It's okay as long as the blocks pay out through inflation. If miners have to keep the same hash rate through fees and the transactions are very few inbetween, then each transaction must have an insane cost attached to it. So long term very bad.

[u/kingoliviersammy → u/Competitive_Ebb_4124]

And at what point would they not pay out through inflation?

[u/Competitive_Ebb_4124 → u/kingoliviersammy]

It's way far in the future, but regardless due to halvings the network security relies on a certain increasing bitcoin price, something which might not be guaranteed in the future. And if the security starts dropping, the price might drop too creating a negative feedback loop. No one knows, but little usage is generally a bad sign no matter how you spin it. Even in the early day, speculation was that fees were expected to become the majority of the network revenue and at this point its questionable if it will ever materialize. Profit margins on mining right now aren't the greatest, even with the price being way past previous ATH.

[u/kingoliviersammy → u/Competitive_Ebb_4124]

I never knew this. So do we keep buying or not

[u/Ur_mothers_keeper → u/Frustrated_Bettor]

Very, very, very bad. Worse than most people realize.

https://njump.me/nevent1qqswuw0sxp59ar2x2hs77dq2gx32wmdarjx7dmv2gxxfe94wxyzakuqpz4mhxue69uhkummnw3ezummcw3ezuer9wchsygxaypt42mug5ex2e5r46qrlr0jgp72fey0ad5xy6kfm4nxm924augpsgqqqqqqssqk3gy

Basically the only solution to it is (speaks a blasphemy) ending the 21m btc hard cap, and the only long term permanent solution for any cryptocurrency is that and unlimited block size, something only possible in pre-poelstra mimblewimble.

[u/Realistic_Fee_00001 → u/Ur_mothers_keeper]

Or Big Block Bitcoin 🤷‍♂️ I mean that's why they forked. They saw this coming.

Satoshi already said, there will either be millions of transactions or none.

[u/reddit4485 → u/Frustrated_Bettor]

Not really. This means you can make a bitcoin transaction for a small fee. The miners get paid 3.125 bitcoin regardless plus the fees. The fees make up only a small portion of the miners reward anyways.

[u/epic_trader → u/reddit4485]

What happens then in 20 years when the block reward drops to 0.1BTC?

[u/Osama_BinRussel63 → u/epic_trader]

The transaction fees ideally make up for it. This would allow mining to continue even after the last coin is created.

[u/epic_trader → u/Osama_BinRussel63]

How expensive would transactions need to be if the reward is 0.1BTC?

[u/Osama_BinRussel63 → u/epic_trader]

That's pretty much exclusively dependent on the price of BTC. But if there is demand for BTC and less being mined, a greater proportion will be acquired via transactions. More transactions = more transaction fees.

[u/epic_trader → u/Osama_BinRussel63]

What if BTC is worth the same as today?

[u/Osama_BinRussel63 → u/epic_trader]

That makes no sense. Halving cycles boost the price.
You can look this stuff up.

[u/epic_trader → u/Osama_BinRussel63]

Okay but like unless BTC is worth like $4 million, transaction costs will have to make up the difference, right? And presumable you want to have more security in 20 years than today, right?

[u/Osama_BinRussel63 → u/epic_trader]

No, you'll need to explain those conclusions you jumped to, cause they make no sense and don't seemed to be based on anything.

Computing power and efficiency will also continue to grow, the power to mine that .1 BTC will not be the same as it is to mine 3ish now.

[u/Wendals87 → u/Osama_BinRussel63]

They have in the past but doesn't mean they will. 

[u/Osama_BinRussel63 → u/Wendals87]

Not as directly with all the ETFs and margin trading, and it does react to the stock market now.
But anyone who thinks the next halving won't drive up the price significantly is a soft-headed tit.

[u/cosmicnag → u/Osama_BinRussel63]

Or the value/ purchasing power of btc should make up for it

[u/solidstatepr8 → u/Osama_BinRussel63]

That is how it is supposed to work in theory.

In practice no one is really using Bitcoin L1 for anything as more and more BTC itself is siloed by private equity and the like taking the trade off-chain into trad-fi stuff like ETFs etc. People mostly buy it to hold it hoping for a Dollar payday later.

BTC network itself has not meaningfully scaled to even support enough on-chain business to offset decreasing mining subsidy, and that only gets worse with every passing year as long as nothing is done.

[u/cosmicnag → u/solidstatepr8]

And? Some shitcoin will flip bitcoin? Or will the shitcoin keep trending to zero against bitcoin?

[u/solidstatepr8 → u/cosmicnag]

Not necessarily but this is a threat to BTCs overall security, which will just weaker with time if the mining subsidy dries up with no fees to sustain them at that point. Without a bailout they'll eventually go bankrupt, mining starts to decrease, thus chain security decreases. Ultimately that means BTC is easier to attack, however unlikely.

Personally I do think eventually the chain doing the bulk of real business will clip BTC unless it actually scales up for real.

[u/cosmicnag → u/solidstatepr8]

Or the price of bitcoin itself will be high enough to support mining anyway, especially of all shitcoins and other assets go to zero against it

[u/solidstatepr8 → u/cosmicnag]

If nothing changes the miners better hope this is the case anyway

[u/DrSpeckles → u/epic_trader]

Miners, who have no interest in BTC other than a way to make money will find something else. As the fees go up, transactions drop further. It’s a viscous circle. Maybe not this year, but it’s coming.

[u/cannedshrimp → u/epic_trader]

What's the price of Bitcoin? How broadly adopted is it as a final settlement layer?

[u/trillionSdollarstech → u/cannedshrimp]

The settlement network of the world is Ethereum and nobody has any reason to switch over to another chain when Ethereum is more secure.

[u/cannedshrimp → u/trillionSdollarstech]

Lol

[u/ThirteenthPyramid → u/[deleted]]

Hence it not being a currency at all.

[u/ThirteenthPyramid → u/[deleted]]

What is the name of this sub?

[u/ThirteenthPyramid → u/[deleted]]

Your opinion, not the constant fraudulent advertising of crypto, or the constant people who insist to me crypto is a currency, or not even just crypto, but Bitcoin and Ether. I’m happy for you if you disagree with them.