r/DBZDokkanBattle • u/nathanjyun GOMP • 1d ago
Fluff STR Full Power Frieza was voted Mid on Release with a Mid EZA. Which unit was Mid on Release with a Great EZA?
Comment highlights :)
Runner-ups were PHY Transforming Vegeta, AGL #13, and STR Super Janemba.
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u/robinhood9961 1d ago
I'm going to say TEQ LR Goku and Vegeta that fuse into TEQ SSJ Gogeta.
On release they were really really "fine". LIke they were alright in the end, but so clearly undertuned because they were made to match STR Super Vegito who had come out months earlier. you could find use for them sure, but legit for most things STR Super Vegito was still just flat out better.
On EZA though? I mean the unit got an insanely good EZA. base form made way better, and the tranformed state came out insanely strong.
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u/Le_Faveau FasterThanGuldo 1d ago
Seconding this one, I remember being very disappointed whenever I had to use them or pulled a dupe. Like I couldn't complain they were BAD, they just didn't have any incredible point. Mostly used for category missions.
It was so obvious they were made to be a weaker version of STR Vegito. And now their EZA makes them one of the big powerhouses of the game in 2025.
I think Goten and Trunks were good when released, I was hyped and pulling for them, the sub loved them and said they were the best leader at the time, their damage and dodging was always good. And didn't they also EZA the Kamehameha kids around this time so you had them linked with %DR units? Nah they were always good, not mid
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u/Ok-Boysenberry8725 Ginyu Force’s Grand Stardust 1d ago
Thirding this as well. STR Vegito and TEQ Gogeta were made to be opposites, where Vegito was good because bosses didn’t one shot you from full hp back on release, so you could transform easily. Gogeta wanted you at 77%+ and it wasn’t that common to be that high around turn 4 back with their mid base kit.
It’s ironic how a meta change from dealing as much damage as fast as possible to actively trying to survive on turn 1 swapped how good they were.
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u/TrollTelos Thumbs up Goku 1d ago
This. Even if they could be used in the following Red Zone content, this was only because they had type advantage against AGL Broly and being able to scouter fish was relatively huge so you can throw someone like LR SSJ4 Gogeta slot or God Goku slot 1. Now? They're still incredibly usable when fused at least, but they share the same issues as the 10th anni fusions where it needs to be turn 4/5 to actually get shit done.
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u/guynumbers A New Journey 1d ago
They survived the red zone powercreep, y’all really downplay them
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u/robinhood9961 1d ago
I'd argue outside of Broly specifically they really didn't do well in Red Zone. And in Broly it was only because they specifically had type advantage on the final phase they BARELY hung on there.
Plus this is about on release. IMO if a unit happened to age into a bit of content later on that made them better just ther, sure that's great. But IMO it shouldn't super matter for this poll.
After all if we're including how they aged, than some units that got unlucky and aged badly for one reason or another should be penalized.
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u/guynumbers A New Journey 1d ago
They dominated the Legendary events. People were just pissy that they were a defensive version of Vegito. They held up perfectly fine against Omega normals post super. Being optimal on the best teams (both btw) for Broly was huge.
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u/yugilogan . 1d ago
Agreed, I remember them being quite solid on release, definitely not mid.
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u/robinhood9961 23h ago
I am willing to admit I'm potentially being too harsh on them in retrospect. Like my logic is that hey certianly weren't a bad unit. Nowhere close.
But also so much of their kit just felt outdated for the time. The base form damage was just not up to snuff really. Again it wasn't bad, but it wasn't exactly good.
And then Gogeta himself was overall good, but he just didn't feel nearly good enough. He was a good defensive unit for only 5 turns while only his damage still didn't feel as good as you wanted.
Like the unit always just felt undertuned, it was certainly good enough, but IMO "good enough" is generally what mid should mean. He was a very middle of the road LR for the time.
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u/yugilogan . 22h ago
I agree they felt undertuned since they were based on STR Vegetto who released way sooner, but I think them simply being more defensively focused made them fairly viable for the content at the time. And that damn OST was amazing, though I know that doesn't matter for performance lol. Definitely don't think they were the best unit in the game on release, but compared to PHY 17 and GF, they were at least runnable in way more stuff.
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u/robinhood9961 22h ago
Yeah I deifnitely think they were better than PHY 17 and GF.
Like I said I think like you could make a very real case that I am underselling them a bit and in the end they belong in the "good" category overall. Like I fully think even if you do classify them as "mid" like I am here it's only barely.
In contrast I think like PHY 17 and GF are like on the edge of "bad and mid" but falling into mid on release.
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u/KingNth_ 1d ago
i dont think i ever used them pre eza LOL
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u/Sharp-Ladder770 INT LR Goku and Piccolo 19h ago
They were one of the few 2021 characters, that were useable in red zone. They were not mid at all.
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u/squattop Day of Fate 1d ago
TEQ Janemba imo
He was okay enough back then, but his support was so much worse compared to Pikkon’s requiring one more type and rainbow ki sphere for the respective buffs and even then he wasn’t amazing defensively, but he wasn’t horrid. Transformed he wasn’t all that great either tbh.
Whereas now he’s a pretty solid powerhouse since he stacks attack, his support/ki conditions are a lot better, and he’s much better defensively which helps overall and makes getting the transformation a lot less risky. Transformed he’s a lot better defensively than he used to be and his dodge or die is much better. He also has pretty solid offense
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u/jacky_jessie Return To Monke! 1d ago
His peak pre eza was unironically in 2022 during the rz meta
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u/AwakenedDivinePower "This EZA will make me stronger!" 1d ago
STR Cooler's team turned him into a completely different unit
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u/NukinDuke 1d ago
I don't know if I would call him okay. He was a unit then that was objectively better when not transformed imo
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u/mrlmm You can't see me! 1d ago edited 1d ago
Main suggestion: PHY Super Saiyan Trunks & Super Saiyan Goten.
Their pre-EZA kit was theoretically solid but mid in practice because they only got non-HiPo dodge from their then-limited active and several of the hardest events during their release year cancelled dodge anyway. For a while, their only claim to real fame was having every Dokkanfest LR until Vegeta & Trunks runnable under one leader skill.
Post-EZA, here have been enough Youth buffs to keep them viable, their dodge chance coupled with their DR is high enough to keep them in slot 1 early in fights to build up to much higher evasion chances, and they have easy access to their unit super and active. Dodge cancelling is still a concern but they've hung on fairly well almost a year in.
Other releases I could see fitting this characterization are STR Kefla, AGL Zamasu, INT SSBE Vegeta, and TEQ SS2 Vegeta, but I think the PHY brats are the best pick.
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u/Open-Temperature-396 1d ago
They were far from mid on release what? They were close to the #1 TUR on release.
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u/mrlmm You can't see me! 1d ago
I mean, they were definitely not bad, but remember what they could actually do on release. You had a 70% chance of 50% start of turn stats, a 70% chance of 100% start of turn stats, 150% stats on super, and a buildup on dodge without any passive dodge without having already dodged. At the time they released, the hardest events were the GoD event (which had AOEs that could shred them, sealing to stop their supers, slot locking, and 600k+ supers that could simply kill them, all of which were live turn 1 before they could active) and LGE which they were generally fine in, but on the immediate horizon was LGTE which cancelled dodge on the hardest stage and featured an STR mid-stage that insta-killed them if they didn't get their 30% dodge unless you used their active, at which point they're already struggling in the first 4 stages due to their lack of defense. Their competition for best TUR at the time came from 2020 units like INT SS4 Gogeta, STR Boujack, TEQ Gohan and the unstoppable-at-the-time TEQ Caulifla, each of whom added more to their teams and contributed more to event clears before and after, and they were firmly knocked off the discussion by the next two DFEs which came 2 and 4 weeks later, being INT Broly and STR Videl. Yes, they hit hard, with a theoretical cap of a 10mil APT on release, but that depended on dodging 5 times AND hitting both 70% rolls AND hitting an additional super on what was presumably a fairly blended crit-dodge-add build at the time. On paper they were excellent, and on their best possible turn they matched that on paper performance, but in the actual game where you can't guarantee 5 dodges and an additional super every time they struggled to reach that best possible turn.
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u/nathanjyun GOMP 1d ago
I figure I'd also provide my suggestions if I can think of any.
My personal pick for today is INT LR Fusion Zamasu. He's a staple on any team he fits on now, but back in the day I skipped his banner and faced no consequences for it.
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u/B0llywoodBulkBogan 1d ago
LR PHY 17 and Golden Frieza was just okay when it dropped but it was disgusting the instant the EZA came out. It fixed basically every problem they had.
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u/Helioseckta LR Vegito 1d ago
It's definitely TEQ LR Gogeta
On release, he was just an okay unit. Worked and was usable, but he wasn't special at all and was almost underwhelming. It wasn't helped that STR Super Vegito released nearly a year prior and he was still better.
His EZA actually made him a contender for best unit in the game. That's how good his EZA was.
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u/AlexanderBlack21 Undershirt Goku is Best Goku 1d ago
AGL Super 17, that man was so ass on release then bro became the real winner out of all 120 EZAs
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u/robinhood9961 1d ago
"was ass on release" so he wasn't mid on release. he was bad on release. he really should have won "bad release great EZA" IMO.
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u/mrlmm You can't see me! 1d ago
I'd argue that it's most fair to consider his "release" to be the update a few days later that made it so his passive didn't reset every phase, at which point he became one of the stronger 120s pre-eza just off raw stats, though his team remained pretty bad and is probably still the worst type-class combo, just edging out extreme TEQ
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u/Valkyroz LR Rose 1d ago
So they fixed it for him but made str duo 17 and did it again without fixing it. How...after years i am still getting a headache thinking about it
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u/TheRepostEmpire 1d ago
PHY LR Janemba
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u/bare4404 Kio-Kou F*** yourself! 1d ago
Teq Lr Great Ape Vegeta. Many people said he was ass on release bc every other unit that anniversary dawged on his damage, but on his EZA, he was clinically top 3 unit in the game for me personally, right behind SSJBE Vegeta and Beast
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u/BrilliantRun5967 1d ago
from the replies, a ton of units fit this bill. damn near dokkans signature for units with good animations but wonky kits
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u/whiffer01 Broccoli Boi 1d ago
I'm going to nominate the PHY LR DBS Broly Trio. They weren't that impressive on release but when that EZA came out people were pretty impressed with them. It definitely helped that they got more consistent orb changing and had better team options.
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u/swarang2000 NINGEN!!! 1d ago
Both phy 17 and frieza, teq fusing gogeta are allowed. However teq gogeta had a better eza.
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u/Suree_w New User 1d ago
Has to be teq lr gogeta, release was way after str vegito with basically same hit. Eza however really set them apart, since teq lr gogeta was useful untill recently and it could still be a safe option for majority of fights, just not the newest hardest xx mil per super enemies..
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u/Alternative-Talk-901 YOSHAAA!!! 1d ago
LR TEQ goku and Vegeta -> Gogeta. Literally worse than STR Goku and Vegeta -> Vegito who released over 6 months prior and then when he finally got his EZA he had arguments for being the undisputed best unit in the game. Great EZA is underselling him.
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u/Xtrovo_8019 23h ago
I think for great on release we can easily put either 7th anni duo character. Leaning more towards ssgss duo since they had amazing teams for super long but ssj4 duo is also amazing I just think there were more teams with ssgss imo
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u/Priddee There is more than one way to realize the legend... 1d ago
LR Teq Gogeta is my pick. They dropped a while after STR Vegito and there was a majority of people who said Vegito was still better.
After their EZA there was zero debate and they were a must run. Probably one of the t3 units in the game on EZA release.
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u/himekugii43 New User 1d ago
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u/TheRepostEmpire 1d ago
I wouldnt say he was mid, he was really good but he clearly wasnt as good as UI Goku on release
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u/robinhood9961 1d ago
He was still at absolute worst a top 5 unit in the game on release. It was just that he was very clearly outclassed by AGL UI.
But he very objectively was not mid.
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u/NoeShake Strength is absolute! 1d ago
Still the 2nd best unit when he dropped btw, y’all gotta drop this cap lol
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u/Sienaspac93 Jiren 1d ago
Hmmm, LR Turles & Crusher Corps?
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u/IncineratorAlien LR Goku and Vegeta SB 1d ago
Crusher corp was good on release, maybe even better since they didn't have a real team when they ezad.
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u/Yousefcoolol54 1d ago
Has to be Int ssbe vegeta he was mid on his release arguably one of the worst y6 anniversary units on eza he was dominant all year
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u/Jwilsonred Cooler Gang 1d ago
LR 17 and Golden Frieza