r/DC_Cinematic • u/Funny_Seaweed_4709 • 17h ago
DISCUSSION Hot take : I liked Hawk Girl’s screech and killing the prime minister and I hope cry babies don’t make James Gunn change his original vision just to appease them
Some already think that Superman is just an answer to the all criticisms Man Of Steel got right down to online detractors being depicted as online hate fueled monkeys
Please don’t go changing the script because people on Reddit cry.
I’m a huge MOS fan and even I can say that Superman was perfect.
Hawk girl was menacing and kinda scary and she 100% should be the one to kill so please don’t go back or regret any of your decisions
This is the same shit that happened to MOS just non stop ridiculous nit picks and crying because Superman killed Zod in an epic fight to the death
Rant complete
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u/Rom2814 11h ago
Labeling people you disagree with as “cry babies” is hilarious.
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u/True_Falsity 8h ago
Agreed. Which is why I also hate the way some fans of this movie respond to any criticism with the picture of those typewriter monkeys.
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u/elixxonn 6h ago
It calls out bot behavior.
There was an active campaign to spam and bot views, likes, upvotes and attempts to review bomb.
It's very telling when the criticism is coming from a spammer that never saw the thing.
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u/True_Falsity 5h ago
Except that the image gets posted every time someone brings up any criticism of the movie. It’s not about calling the out bots.
It’s about acting as if the only people who could dislike something about the movie are bots.
Which, let’s be real, is no different from the whole “Nice argument, but I already drew as a soyjak and myself as a Chad” defense that gets regularly used online.
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u/PNWCoug42 17h ago
I don't see Gunn caving to a vocal minority that screeches louder than everyone else.
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u/ZackTheZesty 16h ago
He’s already doubled and tripled down on Hawkgirls personality, there is literally nothing reputable OP could have read that indicated Gunn has implied he may change his original version
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u/jackfaire 12h ago
That doesn't mean studios don't. Honestly this is almost more a "Yes Superman killed again, yes he was justified now don't complain please"
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u/elixxonn 6h ago
Gunn has creative control. He's a CEO. He's LITERALLY the one approving the scripts for the DCU.
Currently this is very much the anti-Marvel and anti-DCEU approach where execs and producers don't have room to push agendas and self-sabotage.
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u/Corgi_Koala 13h ago
The movie reviewed well with critics and audiences and is a financial success. I don't think anyone is going to get him to change his vision as long as things are working.
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u/Caesar_Rising 3h ago
Exactly. He understands what other higher ups seem to have not. A bunch of people complaining online are not your overall audience, they’re just the loudest.
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u/Mousefang 17h ago
I could’ve guessed about the second part but I had no idea the screech was even controversial. I loved it lol
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u/SolidPrysm 12h ago
When I first saw the movie I'll admit it felt kind of goofy but like... that's the point? It's a superhero movie, that's what I paid for.
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u/thedrizzle126 10h ago
She's a warrior by nature, I don't know what's confusing about it. People sound weird when they get primal.
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u/Average_Klutz 9h ago edited 8h ago
The warrior aspect of the screech is what kind of threw me off, there’s definitely a time and place for intimidation tactics, but there’s a lot of occasions where announcing your presence and potentially your general location isn’t exactly a sound tactic. Also it was a bit headache inducing in theatre format. My favorite version of hawkwoman is Shayera Hol the thanagarian police officer. I believe Gunn is using Kendra Saunders version and she’s really cool too. At least from the comics I’ve seen Kendra in she doesn’t have a screech. I’m unclear whether it was a battle cry or if it was some kind of sonic attack. I enjoyed isaballa merced’s portrayal of kendra. Granted I don’t think we really got more than a taste of the character which was probably by design, they wanted to leave us wanting more. it’ll be fun to see how she gets further developed.
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u/bow_wow_wow_wow 17h ago
I feel this is less of a hot take and more just a silent majority thing. Anyone who think her unhinged battle cry isn't rad AF is likely just being a hater.
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u/renhaoasuka 16h ago
Everyone is celebrating that she killed fake Netanyahu. I highly doubt James Gunn is going to regret doing that
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u/Baratheoncook250 16h ago
Gunn already confirm that the character, wasn't based on Netanyahu. If he was , Gunn would've said it.
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u/Cozy-Panda777 15h ago
If you think a famous movie director and company leader would outright confirm he killed off a fictional Netanyahu then you're dum. if he was he can't outright say it. He'd get cancelled or fired or removed or his movies and works would lose money and hurt the brand.
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u/Funny_Seaweed_4709 15h ago
It wouldn’t be smart to come right out and say that but it’s clear enough
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u/nykirnsu 10h ago
Eh, the script would’ve been finished well before the invasion of Gaza, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were thinking more about Putin in early development
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u/Key_Perspective_9464 8h ago
...when do you think the occupation of Gaza started?
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u/nykirnsu 8h ago
Well before late 2023, but that doesn’t mean it was consistently a hot-button issue in America well before late 2023
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u/Key_Perspective_9464 2h ago
Why would it need to be a "hot-button issue" in the US for a writer to write a thinly veiled allusion to it?
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u/nykirnsu 2h ago
It wouldn’t need to be, it’d just make it a lot more likely. Writers are people like everyone else, they’re still influenced by the zeitgeist
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u/Baratheoncook250 15h ago
Well an actor, who is against Israel, that he didn't get cast in Superman, because he is pro Palastine
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u/Astro_girl01 14h ago
I didn't even know this was a topic ppl were discussing lol. Do people really have a problem with hawkgirl having a hawk screech?
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u/thekingofdiamonds12 9h ago
Personally, I wasn’t a fan of it. I think it would’ve been better if her mace made the sound as it was being swung. But whatever, it’s not that big a deal
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u/nhocgreen 13h ago
Maybe it was just the way their cinema set up their speakers or something? Because before I watched the movie I had expected the screech to be a real problem based on some of the comments.
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u/bow_wow_wow_wow 14h ago
People will look for a problem with any type of girl boss unfortunately. It's ok tho, only means she slaying successfully.
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u/Average_Klutz 13h ago
I didn’t like her battle cry but I liked her. Found the battle cry annoying and in a movie theater setting headache inducing. it was something Gunn added that he liked. Not comic accurate. That being said I’m excited for her to get either her own movie or series the character herself was really cool. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people having a preference one way or another.
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u/WASD_click 11h ago
I like that it's there but I felt like they used it too much in the Ghurkos scene.
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u/NwgrdrXI 10h ago
It's not even that, imo. I don't think anyone actually disliked hawl girl killing that guy (save for people who identified him as a figure they agree with IRL)
They're mad because we complained about the casualties in say, MoS, but we are ok with this one.
They are essentially ignoring all the nuance of the stiuation to scream the super hero movie version of the "so much for the party of love" battle cry.
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u/Scary_Equipment_1180 17h ago
James gunn isn't changing his mind. Infact James stated that the justice gang are gonna be hit with consequences for their actions in the future
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u/GarlicBreadOutrage 16h ago
I sure hope so because it makes no sense that Superman gets hit with so much controversy for stopping a war while the JG gets Scott free from assassinating a political leader.
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u/Funny_Seaweed_4709 17h ago
That right there is what I’m talking about. Why does it feel like he only said to appease those who are unhappy with what played out?
I just watched the clip and the prime minister dude was pretty much baiting her to drop him.
And what the hell do the justice Gang need to face consequences for?
Saving defenseless lives? Killing a genocidal maniac? That’s what I mean
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u/SupremeBeef97 17h ago
My opinion, I don’t think Gunn is saying what Hawk Girl did was wrong exactly, but that maybe she and other metahumans will just face more scrutiny for basically assassinating a world leader or just plainly interfering in international affairs. Much like how Superman faced a lot of scrutiny when he interfered the first time.
Shit can’t say details without spoiling but first episode of peacemaker S2 is already implying there’s a lot of controversy with metahumans being more active in political affairs even if done with good intentions
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u/advester 17h ago
Hints in Superman of a government vs metahumans plot coming:
Lois's interview focuses on government approval
The Gang just straight kills the monster and clark objects (hint that they kill too much)
Hawk girl kidnapps and murders a genocidal monster (perfectly reasonable for anyone to think that is unadvisable)
Rick Flag laments "i guess the metahumans are in charge now"
If Gunn does continue a govt vs metahuman plot, it isn't because of the fan reaction.
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u/Average_Klutz 8h ago
Yup, if you’re paying attention, superman has a lot of Easter eggs and is definitely setting up a story line. It’s also great as a standalone too so props to Gunn for that. P.S You should use spoiler function
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u/Acrobatic-Fly1418 17h ago
I mean Gunn said it on a prerecorded video that was most likely recorded during shooting Superman so like he’s not trying to appease anyone
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u/RedBait95 13h ago
>And what the hell do the justice Gang need to face consequences for?
>Saving defenseless lives? Killing a genocidal maniac? That’s what I mean
y-yeah
Lois points out in the movie that, in spite of Clark's actions being good, there's a lot of ramifications for it that even he couldn't conceive of.
Now, Superman is a cut above everyone and no government is going to chase down a guy that, to the public doesn't even have a social security number, but the Justice Gang is a privately funded enterprise. If Maxwell Lord can't keep his unaccountable heroes in check, then maybe he needs to be looked at more closely.
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u/Capable-Locksmith-13 12h ago
A major part of the movie is Superman taking heat for just threatening him. Having another hero outright murder him with zero consequences wouldn't make sense. Yes, as an audience, we know he's bad, but their are major ramifications that come with knocking off the leader of a foreign nation.
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u/throwaway-priv75 14h ago
Look I'm a fan of the scene, but its one of the themes of the movie that being super powered doesn't make you above the law. Superman's argument is that a higher moral imperative drove him to protect lived irregardless of the law.
When Hawkgirl kills the PM, she doesn't do it to save anyone, she doesn't do it in self defence. She kills a world leader, for what, taunting her? The idea that she couldn't have just taken him to an authority is ludacris.
It makes perfect sense, given the in-universe reaction to superman preventing a genocide that they explore the ramifications of her assassinating a world leader. No matter how justified you think she is in doing so.
Will she "face consequences"? Who knows. I can see a world where she is called to stand trial, and maybe the whole JG is called to for their 'invasion'. I doubt she will face any significant consequence like imprisonment though, much more likely it just sets the tone going forward similar to how Age of Ultron set the stage for the anti-hero rhetoric in Civil War. .
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u/Scary_Equipment_1180 17h ago
Well for starters before yall start tryin to down vote the justice gang was justified in my book.
However from a law standpoint, they entered a country illegally, did not consort with the government beforehand, and killed a world leader that was an ally to the USA, and caused a major national incident. Realistically what they did is highly illegal and it should be recognized in some form or fashion instead of being completely ignored
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u/nykirnsu 10h ago
Because you’re so used to seeing a pattern that you perceive it even when it isn’t there. Them facing consequences was already hinted at in the movie itself, both with Lois Lane playing devil’s advocate for anti-interventionist criticism of Superman’s involvement in Boravia and with Rick Flag lamenting that superheroes have created a geopolical shift at the end of the film. Regardless of what you think, realistically a lot of people - particularly those in powerful positions - are gonna have a problem with superheroes getting involved in geopolitics without going through the proper channels, it coming back to bite them in the sequel is just an obvious route to take the plot
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u/ComeNalgas 17h ago
My hot take for DC comics has always been that No kill rules are dumb. And it’s a fact these characters have been around way longer than the no kill rules
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u/Ensaru4 10h ago
That's a lukewarm take. DC universe is also filled with superheroes who do kill. Hawkgirl is one of them. The only people who holds the hardest to this rule are Batman, Superman and Flash.
I'm just surprised there is even conversation about Hawkgirl at all surrounding what she did. It's a part of her character.
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u/That1DogGuy 17h ago
Not a hot take. Most normal audiences have a positive reaction to her.
It's just the chronically online weirdos.
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u/MisterNefarious 12h ago
Only problem with hawkgirl was she didn’t have much to do or say other than hit people. She needs an expanded role in something else.
Otherwise yeah she was cool
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u/Kreyain88 10h ago
I didn't like the screech, but that's because i only know Hawkgirl from the DCAU so was just expecting a bad ass human warcry.
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u/l3tsgo0 17h ago
The killing Zod crybabies probably wanted him to be transported to the Phantom Zone just like in Superman II lmao, I hate it when franchises retire characters in limbo just because they are averse in the main character killing them.
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u/Leebo4 17h ago
Because some characters are not and should not be cold blooded killers; sometimes we prefer the characters staying true to who they are and finding the best way to take care of a problem
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u/SnuleSnuSnu 12h ago
So, why would then Superman, who is not and should not be a cold blooded killer be fine with his "friends" murdering people in cold blood?
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u/True_Falsity 8h ago
First of all, Superman didn’t kill Zod in cold blood.
Secondly, you do realise that this new Superman killed Ultraman, right? James Gunn even said that his Superman will kill if necessary.
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u/LightningLad2029 16h ago
The problem isn't her killing, it's the fact that her and the Justice Gang have little to no regard for the consequences their actions may cause.
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u/elixxonn 6h ago
Guy is the "oh shit not him!" member of the Green Lanterns that gets even the more unsavory missions done so his morals are greyer than most. It's a big fat to be continued on the Justice Gang because they are connected with Lord.
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u/Dangercules138 16h ago
The screech is so good. Its equal parts, silly, a little badass and lowkey kind of terrifying.
She killed Temu-Netanyahu because she's not Superman and thats perfectly fine. Sometimes villains need to die in horrific ways.
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u/Distinct-Fact-311 12h ago
Hell yeah it was terrifying lol imagine seeing a hawkwoman flying towards you, screeching with a mace and her crazy eyes just searching for her next prey. It's a warrior battlecry and it was perfect.
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u/The-Peel 17h ago
I remember when MoS happened and people raged so hard for Superman not taking the fight out of Metropolis and getting so many people killed with all the destruction.
Now 12 years later and people are pleading that Hawkgirl doesn't receive any condemnation for killing an innocent and unarmed man.
The double standards and moving the goal posts are getting annoying.
right down to online detractors being depicted as online hate fueled monkeys
100% intentional on Gunn's part to shut down any criticism of his movie.
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u/SupremeBeef97 17h ago
The guy was gonna orchestrate a genocide. You can argue about the geopolitical implications of his death but he wasn’t exactly innocent
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u/That1DogGuy 17h ago
It's not a double standard. It's an entirely different context. Context absolutely matters.
It is also two entirely different characters.
Different characters. Different context. Different reactions. What is so confusing?
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u/armageddonquilt 5h ago
Like, she literally states outright she's not Superman in that scene lol. I don't know how much clearer it can get.
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u/Burgundymmm 17h ago
I don't think Gunn is the type to cave on these sorts of things. Only way I can see it happening is if Warner doesn't give him a choice.
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u/Defiant_Moment_5597 11h ago
Can you at the very least admit the zoomed in shot of her screaming in the hall was weird. Can we at the very least agree on just that one shot?
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u/UnfavorableSpiderFan 16h ago
You're saying that like it's happening?
I don't think anyone who even liked the movie - Which seems to be the majority of the people who saw it - had an issue with it. They even put the note in there of, "I'm not Superman" to highlight that, yea, Hawkgirl's a bit of a loose cannon.
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u/wintermute_13 14h ago
I really doubt he'll change the narrative. He has distinct plans to address her killing of Gherkin in future productions.
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u/TechieTravis 14h ago
Gunn treats each character as an individual with their own philosophy and agenda. Hawkgirl will kill a bad guy if she thinks it's right. That isn't Gunn saying that it's right. Superman wouldn't have done that. I don't get why this confuses people.
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u/Fares26597 13h ago
I like the screech just fine I'm just not sure about that one close up shot on her face.
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u/Capable-Locksmith-13 12h ago
I like that he has said there would be consequences. The message that Superman was wrong to act so recklessly on the global stage would be lost otherwise. You can't spend the movie questioning his decision only for another character to do something exponentially worse with no follow-up.
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u/reasonable2017 12h ago
I really don't mind her killing but there should be consequences, which James Gunn said there would be. Especially I can imagine being a world leader, then being framed about something you did not do, now do I have to basically be afraid of Hawkgirl killing me even though I did nothing wrong? I think those are great topics to explore and I am excited to see what James Gunn would do.
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u/ReservoirDog316 11h ago
James Gunn has took aim at lots of political things and loves being weird. It’s literally what got him this far. He’s gotten nothing but success and adoration from it. He’s not changing.
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u/thedrizzle126 10h ago
There is one thing that Gunn will do, and it is not give into that bullshit.
He's in a rare space as an active creative, and an active executive. It's unprecedented, but what I trust is that his barometer is, in almost all cases, a home run.
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u/KhalilSmack85 9h ago
It's almost like she was established as a different character than Superman with her own distinct personality. I don't see anyone complaining about Krypto beating up Lex
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u/imanoobee 9h ago
I like the movie because of the long 1 on 1 dialogues. I recommend movies to be more like this. A good way of connecting to the characters backgrounds and emotions.
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u/hokagenaruto 8h ago
something I also defend about man of steel is the destruction when you stop to think about the type of shit superman was faced with in that movie
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u/vogueaspired 6h ago
I doubt he gives two fucks about what those so-called fans think - and rightfully so
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u/OblivionArts 6h ago
Yeah i think this version of hawkgirl was the "alien warrior" version, which explains a lot of her behavior
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u/elixxonn 6h ago
That screaming hellspawn was nightmare fuel from the people's perspective in that hallway.
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u/Meatgardener 3h ago
Definitely a hot take on Hawk Girl's scream. It was annoying as fuck and I thought she was Silver Banshee the way she was screaming like that's her actual power.
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u/SelkieTaleDolls 3h ago
Loved the screech. Loved that she killed Putinyahu. Absolutely hilarious that little pissbabies are bitching about it
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u/nikgrid 15h ago edited 15h ago
I’m a huge MOS fan and even I can say that Superman was perfect.
It was definitely not perfect. And Hawkgirl screaming and killing is in character, not so much for Guy Gardner...even though they basically called Peacemaker on killing in his interview on the show.
I don't mind heroes being pushed to kill, but consistency is nice.
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u/Candle-Jolly 16h ago
The screech and her attitude were a huge turn on very interesting to see in live-action.
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u/Ammonitedraws 11h ago
The screech is so freaking badass, like who else does that? Who else can do that? We have to make every character special and unique or else they start to get boring. Let’s not forget they took away falcons ability to speak to his the loving bird redwing. I get why they did it, but at the same time it takes away something special from him
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u/HaikusfromBuddha 17h ago
I thought it looked stupid as hell. Screeching like that and with that face shot. She looked regarded as hell lol. I liked the movie overall but that scene was cringe as hell. The killing is idc but it's inconsistent since she killed the guy and then they lecture Peacemaker about killing when it's implied that Hawk Girl would kill anyone.
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u/advester 17h ago
The Peacemaker thing might make sense because Lord says "the growing backlash against metahuman kills". That growing back lash could be caused by Hawkgirl and she's been lectured by Lord. It's not like hawkgirl was the one saying don't kill.
Also, viewers were not intended to think the justice gang was being fair in those interviews. "Camel toe"
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u/Leebo4 17h ago
Superman is a massive response to the direction before and how in man of steel; superman didn’t even try to move the fight elsewhere or try and save people
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u/Funny_Seaweed_4709 17h ago
I mean he was preoccupied with a savage kryptonian on his first day as Superman, also the exploding truck scene he seems to turn around and observe the damage like he wasn’t expecting right before Zod continues pounding on him so what could he do?
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u/Average_Klutz 16h ago edited 16h ago
Still exited about hawk girl but I personally hated hawk girls screech. She doesn’t do that in the comics, she’s got enhanced abilities with some extra’s like gravitation control/ electric control depending on the incarnation but to my knowledge has never had a sonic attack. Also she’s supposed to be a highly trained warrior, I won’t say the intimidation factor wouldn’t have its time or place, but announcing your position/ presence in many instances isn’t exactly a good thing. Everything else about her character I was happy with. It really will depend on how she gets developed. We only really got a taste of her in this movie. So it’s too soon to tell really but I’ve got hope. I’m excited for the chance of her getting a standalone movie. Especially maybe an origin story? Considering she hasn’t really gotten one outside of comics and a bit in animation. I agree several origin stories can probably be passed on cause it’s been done to death, but Gunn likes to introduce less known characters, at least outside the comics community. Them picking a comic book nut that’s not afraid to deviate/ change the story but also honours the OG source material in his own way and giving him full creative control was probably the best decision Time Warner has made in a long time. Also Gunns mindset that it all starts with the script is sorely needed in a lot of other people. Speaking of fiege I’m Hopeing he doesn’t into another fiege, success ruined fiege.
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u/mr_greedee 14h ago
sounds like her killing might be part of the bigger story. So I'm excited. I liked it regardless
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u/OmegaGoober 13h ago
I’m told Gunn has said the Justice Gang would face serious consequences for their actions. The end of the movie set up some major battles about meta-human accountability.
Then there’s Maxwell Lord, the guy financing the Justice Gang. In the comics, he goes in for mind control to form an anti-superhero government organization called “Checkmate.” I can see this being the catalyst for that storyline coming to the New DCU. His pet superhero team going rogue won’t sit well with him.
This would make Mr. Terrific the one most likely to finance the next iteration of the league. Canonically, he’s one of the most intelligent humans on the planet and filthy stinking rich himself.
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u/Leebo4 17h ago
Superman should not be full on snapping someone’s neck in their first movie and especially not in an extremely forced situation where superman could easily have done a thousand of different ways to stop him from killing the family and then out zod in the phantom zone
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u/Ya_Royal_High-ness66 15h ago
The point of tMOS was to show an inexperienced Superman being g Superman for the first time. Why is it you all complain about him killing Zodvthe way he did, but refuse to acknowledge this is a green Superman. It is ok for him to make "mistakes" and kill a bad guy the way he was forced to. Yall have to grow up and get over that silly criticism of that part of the movie.
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u/EnzoMcFly_jr 17h ago
One thing I really love about Gunn’s approach to the DCU from day one is that I really don’t think “the fans” are going to make him change anything and that’s a beautiful thing.
Especially after the way Dwayne Johnson was trying to cater to the loudest voices on Twitter leading up to black Adam.
Like hey we changed the design of Sonic. That’s basically a net positive. You got the Snyder cut released. Cool. But I personally, I don’t really want to have any real say in what stories are told in these franchises. I’d rather just see it all unfold as a fan