Gaster Blaster is probably a ghost type move, so that’ll do well for him. Unfortunately all of his bone attacks are gonna be ground type, as all bone type moves are
In all seriousness, that matchup might actually be a tie since Sans can also skip the players turn to strike first. Whoever wins depends on who you believe gets the first hit. Sans skipping the first turn, or Shedinja’s priority attack.
Shedinja's priority attack exists within the framework of turns, whereas Sans's turn skip subverts and supplants that framework. Same reason Immeasurable > Infinite (I AM NOT APPLYING THESE SPEEDS TO EITHER COMBATANT, I AM SIMPLY USING IT AS A POINT OF COMPARISON)
Shedinja shadow sneak hits before flash cannon which is a light based attack, making shedinja faster than light, meanwhile sans cant even kill a small child
Only faster if you deny Sans his FTL scaling, and Shedinja's guarantee hit move is Mind Reader which makes his next attack a surefire hit, which means he can be blitzed down before that attack. And bypassing the accuracy check doesn't bypass the Protect variants, so Sans could just intercept the attack.
People use lightning, meteors, and freaking Tsundreplane to scale Sans' speed, scaling him off Knight Knight’s sunlight honestly isn't that far off of what people easily accept for him. And Frisk not being able to hit him even with Sea Tea doubling their speed results in him upscaling whatever you use for him that's not just dodging pistol fire.
People use lightning, meteors, and freaking Tsundreplane to scale Sans' speed, scaling him off Knight Knight’s sunlight honestly isn't that far off of what people easily accept for him.
That's what I have been saying, Light Speed Undertale isn't any less valid than Lighting Speed Undertale
Clearly, you have never watched an Undertale Sans fight animation. May we all laugh at your ignorance and foolishness. Truly, blessed are the ignorant. Hohoho.
His primary damaging ability is literally called Karma and he only fights you if you killed everything you could get your hands on. It might not be confirmed but you’ve gotta have some level of reading comprehension, right?
Its not confirmed, I believe its true but its not confirmed. You do have intelligence to know the difference between implications and straight up statements correct?
Yes, implied. This is what Implied means. We still have no confirmation it, on how it works. Does it work only in killing? Or in any sin? Does it matter how the victim feels? Does the victim need to be councious? 0 Information
wouldnt KARMA do more damage? i dont think Judge would be affected cuz he didn't do "bad" things, unless you count him not stopping Batter sooner or killing him in the Judge ending, (idk if Gojo did anything bad)
Yes, but even without Karma, Sans still does one damage per frame. Sans without Karma is essentially Sans with an 80% nerf to his attack output as Karma is 4 extra damage per frame.
Undertale runs at 30 fps. So if all he gets is 1 second to attack you and no karma damage, that’s 30 damage which is pretty good (and would kill Shedinja if he uses the Gaster Blaster)
Yeah, and with Sans usually having 4 Gaster Blasters out in any given attack, that's 120 damage, which would kill the Judge in 33.3 seconds. Blitzing Judge down without Karma should be doable.
Specifically, the whole deal with doing one damage is that 1 damage attacks don’t activate I-frames, and unlike most such attacks, his don’t disappear on contact either, so they’re doing damage on every active frame like in Super Smash Flash 1.
Even just applying Undertale’s own frame rate, rather than making some insane extrapolation that it’s doing one damage every instant, you don’t need me to tell you it adds up fast.
That said, imo, it could be argued that Sans’ attacks only “do 1 damage” relative to Frisk’s own durability. This does raise the floor of Sans’ power pretty high, but also defines a hard ceiling too, though more importantly, the exploit arguably doesn’t really apply to anyone besides Frisk. On the other hand, I-frames aren’t real (not for most characters anyway) so presumably you are getting hit every frame, as well, that’s kinda how getting hit by a laser works. I dunno. It’s not like “HP” is real either so it gets speculative fast.
Idk what Sans has that could get around Infinity other than turning Gojo’s soul blue and flinging him around, but that only does damage during the last attack in that fight, and (as far as I know) it can’t actually kill you.
Well his power gimmick thing - Karmic Retribution is stronger the more violent the opponent is(it'll actually be less strong if you fight him at lower LV by modifying your save or using mods)
KR doesn't change with LV, at least not officially.
Mods aren't canon and shouldn't be used for scaling.
And it's never stayed in canon for it to work that way.
Also, KR and Sans removing your invincibility frames are 2 seperate mechanics in the files, so Sans is fully capable of doing more than just 1 damage even if the opponent took 0 damage from KR.
Unless the rules have to be applied in the fight. Since he does attack the fight options. Which could be seen as the battlebox being something that needs to be taken into account as part of a fight with a monster in undertale.
Also, with other things like Papyrus and flowey also seeing the soul within the battle box and how Asgore can destroy the mercy button. The battlebox isn't just some gimmick for the undertale world for the player to use so they can fight in this world.
If it doesn't work outside the universe. Then yeah, Sans loses to just about everyone. But if it can. Then there are explanations for why sans could win. But for a lot of them. It would still be a toss-up.
Yes people should NEVER in ANY CIRCUMSTANCE WHATSOEVER think Sans EVER had a SINGLE CHANCE of beating ANYONE and this is CAPITALIZED so you can tell it's VERY IMPORTANT
OP's gonna freak out when he discovers Heavy Weapons Guy or Pyro Teamfortress2( deals a small amount of damage a bunch of times,quickly racking up, as opposed to just having one big attack that fires every shot at once )
The soul attacks take place outside the body. That’s why your soul is in that little box. And that isn’t an attack with travel speed, that’s a mechanic
That doesn’t undercut my actual point at all. Either way, physical armor still protects the soul. We also know for a fact that soul attacks affect the body, given Toriel’s fireballs can knock away Flowey, she claims you look hurt if you take damage, and Mettaton says the phrase “despite the injuries you pose” if you’re hurt.
The normal form of the heart locket has lesser defense, and it being higher in genocide is likely due to the emotions Chara (who’s more in control in that route) associates with it.
We don’t know what the Temmie Armor actually looks like. You shouldn’t assume it’s a full set, and given Tem’s preferred cereal is torn up construction paper, I wouldn’t trust it to be the absolute best of quality.
That doesn’t undercut my actual point at all. Either way, physical armor still protects the soul. We also know for a fact that soul attacks affect the body, given Toriel’s fireballs can knock away Flowey
That examples kinda prove what i say
Toriel's fireballs affecting just show that Magic can affect both, the same happens in the pacifist ending where Asgore gets hit by the fireballs and his HP doesn't get affect, so affect the body doesn't affect the SOUL
she claims you look hurt if you take damage, and Mettaton says the phrase “despite the injuries you pose” if you’re hurt.
She also claim that you look hurt when you get to her house, even when you have full HP, again it shows that the body gets affected if the SOUl gets hit but if the body gets hit it doesn't affect the SOUL
The normal form of the heart locket has lesser defense, and it being higher in genocide is likely due to the emotions Chara (who’s more in control in that route) associates with it.
That also proves that what buffs the defense isn't the physical form of the armor instead it's the emotions, that basically proves my point
We don’t know what the Temmie Armor actually looks like. You shouldn’t assume it’s a full set, and given Tem’s preferred cereal is torn up construction paper, I wouldn’t trust it to be the absolute best of quality.
Again, being called a armor implies that the body would be more covered that the locket, You also have the cowboy hat and tutu that also should cover way more surface of the body than the locket
She also claim that you look hurt when you get to her house, even when you have full HP, again it shows that the body gets affected if the SOUl gets hit but if the body gets hit it doesn't affect the SOUL
100% sure this is just ludonarrative dissonance, toriel mentions you're hurt even if you're at full HP because the story intends you to be hurt, and creating unique interactions depending on your HP value is not a reasonable thing to expect out of any developer.
The thing is that if you don't get hurt it, the dialogue changes, even then, in Snowdin we get a talk about monster food and for example it doesn't go through all the body, that kinda proves that the monster food could be incapable of cure the body because it feeds the SOUL not the body
Just to clarify, soul attacks don't bypass Limitless only CE Reinforcement cuz if that was the case then Toji would have used the Soul Split Katana rather than ISOH
I mean that’s not really super impressive, Flowey isn’t particularly strong by himself and only becomes really powerful after the events of the game with Omega and Asriel since he never had access to the souls before
Bill is mostly a joke mu, a different vs show paired them up together and it got really popular as a joke for that reason, but it’s a bad mu and pretty much no one unironically wants it to happen
Ghost rider is not a popular option for sans, it’s there, but not as nearly as known as judge for example
It bypasses two layered intangibility (I-Frames make Frisk unable to be damaged by soul-destroying magic) and essentially multiplies Sans' attack power. Basically, if Sans attacks you for an entire second you get hit 30 times in that second.
How many people died when the death star fired at the planet? Apply that to his karma on either Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader, or everyone if those deaths apply to everyone. So it's basically even more damage, so yes. It's bonus damage due to how the karma ability works in undertale.
Like, I agree, but the “only deals 1 damage“ thing is dumb. His whole thing is that he fucks around with the game mechanics. He deals only one damage but he also removes your I-frames, so it‘s one damage per game tick.
I mean, he does have 1 canon w, stopping Floweys genocide runs.
If I’m remembering it correctly, during the genocide, Flwoey does tell you he’s tried the exact same thing as you but was always stopped by Sans at the hall.
If I’m getting this wrong though, let me know. It’s been a while since I played Undertale.
The ‘All UNDERTALE characters damage your soul’ argument is so funny cuz Frisk upgrades their souls defense by putting clothing on their body.
This also does not track with UNDERTALE’s story at all. Asgore has human souls, implying he killed the previous humans physical bodies while their souls remained unharmed.
People just forgetting Sans doesn’t have 1 hp, he has 1 defence, he’s the equivalent of a normal dude with a shirt on (and that 1 damage happens every frame because he just goes “Fuck you, no iframes” which would translate to even just touching his attacks (eg: stationary bone) would hurt), since verse equalization)
Oh, also karmic retribution, the more sins his opponent commits, the more his attacks hurt because of that “poison” effect
TLDR: Sans could kill Sukuna just as easily as he’d kill a coughing baby, that man knows only evil and would have all the KR
I do agree that sukuna would get cooked if he landed a hit but the same thing goes for sans himself. In the series no one can actually see Sukuna’s slashes save for Mahoraga whose ability is adapting to anything. Sans can dodge extremely well but it’s hard to dodge an attack that you can’t see coming. It’s basically just a quick draw.
I had someone try to explain to me that the cinematic effect of the background darkening during his chat in grillbys is concrete proof that he can stop time and not just yknow teleport him and other things around
The good thing for Mahito is that he could still hurt them, Yuji got lucky with Sukuna not wanting to be touched, very few characters have that sort of soul protection.
Though imagine Mahito touching Frisk, and just cant touch the soul cause its all wriggling and moving around
Magical bullets made of Determination. The stars that appear on the animation when Frisk fires are the exact same as the star that appear when you save.
(Which is also why the whole "Frisk is just a normal child" is complete bullshit just made up to downplay)
Ultimately I just think Sans (or any Undertale/Deltarune character) is a poor choice for DB because we don’t literally see what they’re capable of, all we see is the symbolic representation of our fight with them, which can mean basically anything with how subjective it all is. And no guys, fan animations don’t count.
I'm not gonna lie, whenever I see Gojo vs Sans posts I just kind of ignore them in favor of other Sans stuff, because there is no universe in which I am buying wank that puts Sans equal to or above a bare minimum town level and mach 3 character.
So frisk can dodge lightning bolts fired from various monsters,
Sans can dodge Frisk,
Sans is too slow to dodge an already dead bug.
Clearly, CLEARLY through my flawless and thoroughly researched three paragraph breakdown above, you have been proven wrong and stupid and dumb, and Sans could Solo Goku.
(Honestly matching sans up with most MUs he gets is stupid because he doesn’t even attack anyone physically. Every attack from monsters in Undertale targets the soul. It’s directly stated several times. So unless he’s fighting another spiritual being, the fight is going to be sans attempting to smash a soul while the opponent tries to physically hit him. Anyone that can touch him before he can spear their likely defenseless soul vaporizes him, and anyone who can’t defend against their spiritual essence being stabbed by bones dies before he moves. The character is not understood at all by powerscalers)
Why TF would the monsters attack your soul? I know that you control your soul to dodge the attacks, but I'm pretty sure they need your soul and attacking the soul risks destroying it???
No, a human soul can be captured but you have to weaken it first to do so. Flowey says in the opening of the game (the “friendliness pellets” speech) that your soul is what you use to fight in UT. Undyne who has helped Asgore capture humans also confirms that the humans need to die to be harvested (specifically her lines of (“through your seventh and final soul the world will be transformed”, followed shortly by “WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU THAT STORY WHEN YOURE ABOUT TO DIE?”). The only difference is a humans soul persists after death, whereas a monsters turns to dust.
The reason Frisk doesn’t lose their soul is because their signature trait is determination and a refusal to be destroyed, plus their minor reality warping with load/save. Honestly this comment was meant to be silly. But I do stand by that a lot of Matchmakers don’t really understand Undertale characters. They are spiritual fighters with remarkably frail bodies. The genocide route they to a man die in one hit. It’s not just Chara, it’s the law of their world. No monster soul is as powerful as a humans, and when their soul is destroyed they turn to dust. Undertale characters need to fight spiritual characters in like a mind space, not regular humans. They get one tapped every time, even by actual literal children.
Uh... pretty sure Flowey never says anything about fighting in the opening scene? He fakes you out by making you try to catch his bullets, then goes "lol what an idiot" and tries to kill you. He says your soul is weak and can be made stronger with LOVE, which... is technically true, because you can literally one-shot the universe itself at LV20, but none of that inherently means that all your fighting happens with just the soul.
Also, Frisk's soul literally does shatter if they die, they just then proceed to go back in time to when they were alive. Yes, a human or boss monster soul lingers after the vessel dies. That's why it'd be stupid to attack the soul, when simply attacking the body means you don't risk destroying the very thing you need to break free after however long they spent underground. You controlling your soul to dodge attacks could very easily just be gameplay.
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u/SavingsTechnical5489 May 05 '25
“Deals one damage to Shedinja before getting one shotted”
yeah that’s why he beats shedinja