True.

[u/KindAnt4804]

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Soloing the embodiment of evil is apparently less than 4v1ing gods, I guess?

Kat (again, WITHOUT HER POWERS) was able to solo A FUCKING CONCEPT

[u/8ullred → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

These aforementioned gods transcend and manipulate concepts and aren’t even the peak of SMT’s power chain, so yes I’d consider it less than that. Do you mind sending me a page on her? I’d like to give it a read, because if the verse really did get to SMT levels I’m sure I’d hear about it more often.

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/8ullred]

…huh, weird

Okay, for some reason she’s only claimed at multiversal…

But either way 1v1 she solos Joker because all the friendship in the world doesn’t save you from a black hole, that shit takes gravity manipulation which isn’t exactly in his toolshed (which even without it is still a big ass shed)

[u/Minijoker4709 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Joker survived the Big Bang blast thing, and a big bang is bigger than a black hole, just saying

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Minijoker4709]

If SMT/Persona characters could just create proper-sized Big Bangs at will, they’d just be spamming those

Assuming the attack is full sized is wank

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Atp you're just ignoring everything that's been told to you and glazing Kat ngl

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

Listen, I’m a massive Persona fan myself

But saying they’re outerversal because of a fucking cheeseburger is stupid

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

It's not because of the cheeseburger, like as a Persona fan myself the cheeseburger isn't Outversal (still higher than the Calc of the Black Hole tho cause of the way perceptión works in Persona) and even witouth Outversal SMT scaling Persona 5 at the least gets anywhere from Multiversal to Low Complex Multi

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

Would you look at that, realistic Persona scaling (seeing as it’s a separate universe from smt) puts them at the same level as Kat (Multi-low complex)

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Alr then there you go, Kat Is as strong as Joker but she has no way to kill him, simple as that (also she gets outhaxxed to hell and back and has no answer to dura neg)

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

…panther form

She has the panther form to outspeed, and the Gravity Gryph to outspeed and secure the kill (that’s the form she used when making the black hole because it amps her speed and durability)

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Speed doesn't matter when Joker Is Immeasurable and again even if she kills him he'll just come back again, Persona users aré hard as hell to keep dead for good

And even if you don't believe in Immeasurable Joker he has way faster speed feats than a Black hole

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

True, it’s hard to keep them dead

But generally speaking if you throw a planet at someone, they’re not dodging that shit

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Joker Is above Planet level so he doesn't really need to Dodge, or in His case 

"I summon the MF who reflects physical"

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

Wait I just realized Kat’s greatest counter

If Joker goes for Sinful Shell, she has wormholes

She can basically Doctor vs Rick him by redirecting SS

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

He's way faster so Sinful Shell would hit her before she could react, and he can react to His own attacks, I think you're glazing the speed of a Black Hole to argue her being somehow faster

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

Lemme list all 3 reasons why she can outspeed

1. Able to keep up with the embodiment of electricity (who by definition should be ftl, even without teleporting)

2. Able to teleport herself (and others) via wormholes

3. The strength and direction of gravity are her decision, so when all else fails “down is towards you at 30000mps^2”

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Oh you're FTL? Cute, here's the númerous counts of MFTL and Immeasurable feats in Persona, again, in the context of a debate like this escaping a Black Hole isn't all that impressive, like, Morningstar Dodging alone Is faster than the Black Hole or Electricity