True.

[u/KindAnt4804]

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Would you look at that, realistic Persona scaling (seeing as it’s a separate universe from smt) puts them at the same level as Kat (Multi-low complex)

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Alr then there you go, Kat Is as strong as Joker but she has no way to kill him, simple as that (also she gets outhaxxed to hell and back and has no answer to dura neg)

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

…panther form

She has the panther form to outspeed, and the Gravity Gryph to outspeed and secure the kill (that’s the form she used when making the black hole because it amps her speed and durability)

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Speed doesn't matter when Joker Is Immeasurable and again even if she kills him he'll just come back again, Persona users aré hard as hell to keep dead for good

And even if you don't believe in Immeasurable Joker he has way faster speed feats than a Black hole

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

True, it’s hard to keep them dead

But generally speaking if you throw a planet at someone, they’re not dodging that shit

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Joker Is above Planet level so he doesn't really need to Dodge, or in His case 

"I summon the MF who reflects physical"

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

Wait I just realized Kat’s greatest counter

If Joker goes for Sinful Shell, she has wormholes

She can basically Doctor vs Rick him by redirecting SS

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

He's way faster so Sinful Shell would hit her before she could react, and he can react to His own attacks, I think you're glazing the speed of a Black Hole to argue her being somehow faster

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

Lemme list all 3 reasons why she can outspeed

1. Able to keep up with the embodiment of electricity (who by definition should be ftl, even without teleporting)

2. Able to teleport herself (and others) via wormholes

3. The strength and direction of gravity are her decision, so when all else fails “down is towards you at 30000mps^2”

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Oh you're FTL? Cute, here's the númerous counts of MFTL and Immeasurable feats in Persona, again, in the context of a debate like this escaping a Black Hole isn't all that impressive, like, Morningstar Dodging alone Is faster than the Black Hole or Electricity

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

But is it faster than teleportation? Because again, Kat can just open a wormhole and teleport

[u/Necrostar02 → u/YourMoreLocalLurker]

Yes, since that's still her speed, Joker Is still way faster and could react to her teleporting

[u/YourMoreLocalLurker → u/Necrostar02]

So Joker can react to instant teleportation? Because that’s what Kat does with her wormholes, she opens both ends simultaneously and enters them in the exact same moment