No i saw someone say Lucifer was "debatable" and that was really funny to me because somehow optimus was above him in that, and then i saw this meme on my timeline and my monkey brain connected the two
You're talking like non-Death Battle scaling is some universal thing. G1 also scales Simon significantly higher than Kyle. They're not Death Battle. I scaled Simon significantly higher than Kyle and I'm not Death Battle.
"Outside of Death Battle scaling" is just a non-statement you're using to make your subjective opinion feel more significant.
But he'll have also been hit in the present, from my understanding if there's any point in time in which he could be hit than he gets hit, regardless of current defences
Fair point, but he could still tank a hit from them due to his battle suit also being very durable and being able to keep up with other high tier heroes in that regard
Do what you are trying me is that a win would be IMPOSSIBLE, because they said Kyle was impossible and if thereās one thing I know itās that he does the impossible breaks the unbreakable etc. nah we good fam( he does beat most dc but I agree he has some matchups he loses)
Being serious, a lot of these characters straight up cannot kill Simon. A big reason Simon won was because he can constantly regenerate at the informational level, which is beyond both physical and spiritual damage, itās the very essence of Niaās being that was being erased and she was able to regenerate from it for a significant amount of time. A lot of these characters simply cannot deal a type of damage to him that would be able to actually kill him.
Half of these guys have meta narrative level erasure and thats beyond informational (Mr Mxy, Thought Machine, Lucifer, Flex, milkman man, etc)
A lot of other have ways to not fully kill simon but still get the win, most importantly soul stealing or strong enough mind control that goes beyond what the anti spiral has (The Magic Trio, Lucifer again, Jarro (meme pick but arguably), darkseid, anti monitor, etc)
And others can outlast the spiral energy that Simon has, remember Nia's energy could only last a week, that does imply there is a limit, and even if Simon's is extremely high, someone who's much stronger and can survive what he can dish out for long enough can eventually outlast it in theory, because Nia was not doing anything spiritually, mentally or physically straining other than focusing on not vanishing, so youd imagine in an actual fight it'd drain up much quicker
Thatās fair. I probably shouldnāt have said āmost of these guysā because I was really arguing against like, Blue Beetle and Booster Gold. Iām also not too convinced characters like Power Girl or Captain Atom could outlast Simon, especially since Simon wouldnāt need to match their power in order for the Probability Altering Missiles to hurt them, since it was used to damage targets much stronger than Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, and it alters probability to not only always hit the target, but always hurt them too.
The reason why Nia only lasted a week is because she didn't want to keep choosing to constantly exists in a state of always regeneration (is like forcing yourself to not die, when you have a fucking bullet on your brain).
Also anti spiral has basically the same level (he is a entity made out of thoughts and information)and he can regenerate himself with no difficulties.
Mxy, CAS, Lucifer, Flex, Milkman Man (the GOAT), Anti-Monitor and World Forger (probably), and ahem Kyle Rayner can all still power through Simon's regeneration.
I don't see how Kyle can power through Simon's regeneration. It's not like a greater amount of power would be enough to kill Simon since he can regenerate from total physical destruction
Because Kyle has a level of power that's above Simon's informational regeneration in the form of the White Lantern Ring and also the instant-win button that is the Life Equation. Kyle's beaten people with that level of durability and regeneration before, for god's sake. He's beaten people with durability/regen ABOVE Simon's level before. Death Battle lowballing Kyle into the ground in order to justify a Simon win is so unfathomably annoying to me because then you get people who've never read a comic book in their life suddenly acting like they're experts on the subject.
Who has Kyle beaten with informational regeneration? Genuinely curious because I've never heard that before. And I agree that White Lantern Kyle is stronger than Simon (though I think Simon definitely has the ability to rise in power to match him), but a greater power level doesn't matter against regeneration that can come back from completely physical destruction.
Kyle's has a fairly direct line of scaling to get him on the level of characters like Superboy Prime, and above the likes of Perpetua and Doctor Manhattan, all of whom can manipulate concepts, laws, and information. Perpetua is an entity that's essentially made of an energy source beyond the informational level and exists beyond the concept of dimensions, and Kyle scales to her or above her in power. It wouldn't matter if Simon can jump infinite dimensions in power instantly, Kyle would still always be more powerful unless Simon could ascend beyond dimensions as a concept, which he's never shown the ability to do.
Most of that is abilities, which can't really be traced back to Kyle at all. Yes Perpetua is made of energy beyond informational level, but that has nothing to do with her level of power, and moreso with her physiology and abilities. I don't see how Kyle would have the same.
Ascending beyond dimensions is pretty similar to what Otoko Simon did to Avant Simon, making him real from being fiction, and Avant Simon was going to ascend past that fictional world into the real world again through Spiral Power. Both of these Simons were merged with the main one when he went through the Multiversal Labyrinth, so Simon should be able to do that very same thing. And transcending fiction into reality would be a level beyond just dimensional increases, so Simon should be capable of matching and surpassing Kyle, at least in my opinion.
To be fair, it's not entirely unreasonable that in multiple scenarios, Kyle would use the Orange Lantern Ring's wincon of soul stealing before Simon eventually grows to surpass him that the G1 blog gave him. Yes, Kyle's not evil or anything to use it off the bat but I think it's a shame DB didn't mention that option at least.
Larfleeze needs to kill someone in order to steal their soul, he doesn't have the ability to just yank someone's soul out of their body. It's not really useful unless Kyle can kill Simon in the first place, which I personally don't buy he could do.
I thought it was "absorb or kill someone"? The G1 blog even notes it as a wincon that would bypass Simon's regen with the only point against it being it would be out of character to use it as frequently compared to Simon's wincon.
The G1 blog notes this as Larfleeze absorbing someone to steal their soul, but to me this just seems like absorbing the god was Larfleeze's way of killing him. The god still dies from this moment, meaning its unconfirmed if this soul stealing was unique to absorbing the god, or just due to the god's death anyway. Given he hasn't (from my knowledge) used this method to steal someone's soul in any other moment, I think it's more reasonable to assume Larfleeze killed him first and then absorbed his soul.
It's up to interpretation though and I can see why someone would argue that Larfleeze can absorb someone to steal their soul. From what I've seen of it, I just personally disagree.
Yeah but that's literally just not true lol. Like in the Godhead storyline, Kyle explicitly had complete and perfect control over the Life Equation. And this was a storyline that was only like 10 years ago, and IN THE MAIN DC CONTINUITY. DB literally had to make up the "Kyle can't control the Life Equation very well" thing, it's pure headcanon that's contradicted by DC itself.
Maybe the guy who owns the anti life equation, guy whis comparable to the presence whos above the source wall or the guy who scales to the retcon of the entire dc cosmology
"He lacked control over the Life Equation" mfers reading the Godhead storyline and realizing that Kyle in fact had complete control over the Life Equation and simply chose to not use its power because it scared him:
Martian Manhunter may actually be a great candidate. His mind powers should be layered enough to get past Simon's resistance to it and since his regen is based on using his thoughts to come back, J'onn could arguably win as long as he does it before Simon gets too strong.
This is kinda under the assumption that this is an actual R>F when it can also be a higher spatial dimension since dimensions in Gurren Lagann are Spatial in nature
The one in the Cd drama were not spatial in nature at all, actually there was this one dimension Who was just SOUND (and not perception like the anime/manga)and again, there is that one 2 dimensional universe Who was created by Otoko Simon
no, i meant literally, that entire dimension was working on sound.
Which is why It was different from the perception that is how the quantum universe works.
Which makes sense, after all, the multiverse has infinite possibilities and there can be universes with different laws of physics
Itās how much one YouTube video shifts an entire larger community and now everyone across DB who would win powerscaling and matchups are all trying to find something or someone that can beat the rowdy digger man
Anti Monitor's abilities, mainly his level of erasure and his stats being able to stably keep up with the highest tiers of dc without control issues would give him the win, also the fact that Simon is a fusion if a bunch if his multiversal selves would just feed him more
Hes never been able too fully revive himself hes just really good at resisting death
Eventually his spiral energy will drain and he wont be able too fight or regenerate
Some of these guys can just steal his soul thus keeping him alive but not making him able to fight or erase him on a narrative level thats even above the informational
Doesn't he canonically constantly and unstoppably generate more spiral energy? Combine that with the fact Nia, who doesn't do that, could nullify her own nonexistence for a week straight, and I'm pretty sure that means Simon is a true immortal.
She wasnt fighting she was just kinda chilling, in an actual fight youd drain that stuff yknow
Also he does do that yeah but it has been implied that he cant keep going forever, even an electrical generator eventually blows a fuse
Also no he aint lol, you manage to land a hit that truly kills him he aint gonna come back from the dead, genuinely no evidence of someone coming back after already being killed except how you interpret one line specifically
A lot of Bad Ass 'Normals' can beat Simon, including Lex luthor and Mr Terrific. Because in the DC verse Simon has to deal with the scifi bull shit ass pulls comics are famous for. The same stuff that lets them survive against stuff like Astral regulator Thanos or Doctor Manhattan.
Lex Luthor/Mr Terrific/Ted Kord (doesn't really matter who): "What's this? A man with a super mecha that makes him nigh omnipotent? Well, I'll just flux Capacitate the Aluvial Dampener on this piece of warworld/Apokoliption/New Genesis technology and this will discombobulate the quantum energy waves on his mechs prion displacement R1ck-R0ll unit so he can no longer interface with the D1ck-bu++ interface. Thus defeating him before he can solo the verse. Mission accomplished"
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u/Ceo_of_fiction True Man vs Batgos Connoisseur May 31 '25
The lack of Gorillas and monkeys in this post is a sins to DC itself!