Strongly agree, as a big fan of StP, Iād really want an MU for it to cover the themes and love story of StP and give someone who could give Princess a solid debate on her mentality.
Tried to find something that covered the love story side of StP but couldn't exactly do it. I guess the closest thing to that would be the first contrast but even then it doesn't really add much in that department.
Sick MU, unfortunately it runs into the Murphy Law problem where it doesnāt cover the love story and themes of StP and just boils it down to a reality warp fest, still a sick idea in general though.
Cool MU! I agree with everyone else in that the MU doesn't have a lot of connections and it's a reality warping fest, but it's still sick. I personally think Shifting Mound can win (just by scaling higher), but I don't think the Princess has a counter to narrative control or plot manipulation.
Reality warpers that appear that seem less threatening at first glance in order to hide their true nature as deadly entities capable of destroying their worlds
Both of them were born in universes that were centred around them which they have destroyed themselves (Euclydia and The Construct) and would soon be discovered and brought upon different dimensions courtesy of two people with a desire to solve a particular problem (Ford Pines wanted to solve the weird occurrences of Gravity Falls and The Narrator wanted to remove death and suffering from the world)
Their greatest enemy would be in the form of two noble protagonists whose goal throughout their journey was to solve the strange events that occur in their worlds and eventually put an end to it (The Pines Family and The Player)
They both rely on manipulating, instigating fear and bringing thoughts into reality in order to gain the upper-hand on their targets in questio
Both can go through different forms, starting off in their seemingly harmless form (Billās regular form and The Damsel/Prisoner) before changing their physical appearances into something far more intimidating such as spirits and deformed monsters or even just emerging as giants of sorts that tower above everything else; in addition, both have shown to be capable of possessing the bodies of others, through particular circumstances, with notable examples being when they took temporary control of their respective seriesā protagonists (Bill taking over Dipperās body after a deal and The Princess, as the Wraith, tries to take full control of the Playerās body after previously being slain)
As their stories reach their climax, both reach their full power and begin a world-ending endgame caused by their own means (Weirdmaggedon and The End of Everything)
In the end, their destruction and chaos would come to an end once the two faced their own demise (Bill would tricked into making a deal with Stan Pines instead of Ford as he initially thought before being evaporated within Stanās mind and, depending on what choice is made, The Princess would be killed by The Long Quiet upon taking the Narratorās last wish); said demise was a request from those who were partially responsible for the events that occurred
Contrasts:
The Princess, despite her role as an antagonist, genuinely cares for The Player and wants to watch the world experience death and rebirth while Bill is completely remorseless towards mankind and wants nothing but destruction and chaos
Bill is an embodiment of weirdness while the Princess is the idea of change
The fight would start off with the Princess in her base form locked within the cabinās basement (whether it takes place before or after killing her attacker is up to your interpretation) until Bill summons himself into the room as the two meet. Bill tells the Princess that he knows who she is and how he plans to erase her from every possible timeline within the Endless Cycle. Upon hearing this, the Princess decides to fight back against the Dream Demon.
There are various ways the fight could go due to how the Princess possesses different forms in each dimension and how Bill travels through various dimensions himself; so many that they canāt be explained in its entirety here without feeling too long. Some variants of the Princess that could work well for this matchup would definitely be The Nightmare and The Wraith could work as phases that take place in the middle of the fight as one evaporates the other before being sent to another dimension where the next state of the fight begins.
Bill would then come face to face with either The Adversary/The Eye of the Needle or The Razor who destroy his eye, causing him to turn into his angry form. Once that timeline is destroyed, another begins with The Princess appearing as The Tower before emerging as The Apotheosis while Bill morphs into his monstrous form. No matter what timeline occurs throughout the fight, each of them would be warped and manipulated by both Bill and The Princess who cause tons of destruction and evaporate each dimension.
The climatic end would have Bill be summoned into the The Spaces Between before coming face to face with the Shifting Mound at long last after wiping out five of her vessels. With both of them breaking free from The Construct and are at their full power, the Shifting Mound could unleash multiple vessels while Bill uses his weirdness against them and fending off incoming vessels with his clones.
Endings:
If Bill wins, he could kill each vessel from within and travel back to the cabin where he meets the Damsel in the heart of The Shifting Mound and kills her, thus shattering the walls of The Construct.
If The Princess wins, she could force Bill to face numerous vessels in different timelines where he always loses. After being bested numerous times and growing weaker, he could start begging The Shifting Mound for anything she desires before finally succumbing to his demise.
Not entirely sure who wins this one. Both are at extremely high levels of power and can warp reality at their own will. If I had to take a guess, maybe Bill? He should be more than capable of competing against The Shifting Mound and her vessels which he should have no trouble dealing with since he would already be familiar with them, including the non-corporeal variants since heās able to interact with the undead.
Constructive criticism: I donāt think the connections do much. They misrepresent The Princess/Shifting Mound, and even one of the contrasts is wrong (Bill does genuinely pine (no pun intended) for Stanford).
The fight could be really cool. Weirdmaggedon would serve as an interesting contrast to The Shifting Mound. The unwavering arrogance of both would lead to some great banter potential.
Unfortunately, itās utterly lacking in debate potential due to how much Bill loses. He falls short in every meaningful category against The Shifting Mound (strength, speed, battle iq, etc), and his best ends (like conceptual manipulation) arenāt effective against Shifty (who transcends the concepts she contains within her multitudes). He pulls ahead in terms of quantity of hax, but falls short still since Shifty could no sell all of his hax, while he couldnāt do the same.
Itās a blatantly outerversal character who lacks any sort of anti-feats vs a high complex multiversal character with many anti-feats.
Shifty is either low-complex multi or outerversal. Vs Battle Wiki (which is what most people use) puts her at low complex (though there is a movement to upgrade her to outerversal IIRC).
Things like transcending concepts like time/space or imposing āAbsolute Realityā can make you outer, and Shifty does both of those things.
I find the transcendent line to be hard to buy into when so many authors use it. And what does āabsolute realityā entail?
Usually Outer is treated as being beyond the scope of dimensionality entirely into an entirely different plane of reality. If shes bound by the game resets (even though she retains memories), then that sort of debunks that level of power
Absolute Reality is defined as such:Ā "ultimate reality as it is in itself unaffected by the perception or knowledge of any finite being". That would be beyond dimensionality, and therefore outerversal.
Here is absolute reality being directly named in game. Since it's beyond description, it's lining up with what Absolute Reality actually is and isn't just a throw away line or the author not knowing what they are referencing, they actually know what it is. Beyond description=beyond dimensionality.
As for the game resets, she's not really affected by those normally. Either she's unaffected (the multitude being unaffected by the Construct's resets) or is only affected because she forces herself to be affected (one of the endings). The only way she is affected is if she does the reset and makes herself affected by it, especially since she is action itself.
I mean, this at the very least gives a very solid argument towards her scaling to whatever cosmology sheās in, but I find it hard to believe this gets her to Outer. I looked at the thread youāre talking about on Vsbw, so far itās seems fine enough but I want to see what the opposition to this might be.
Someone seemed to have the same idea as me where it seems like solid evidence for cosmology scaling, idk using philosophical stuff for scaling seems kinda sketchy since itās been used to wank a lot of stuff recently like Adventure Time scalers unironically arguing for Boundless Finn and Jake
Iām normally against philosophical scaling, but at a certain point you have to ask when it is valid. Iād say beings as utterly incomprehensible as Shifty and Quiet should at least be considered, especially since they have literally no anti-feats.
Like, The Long Quietās body alone contains an entire infinite multiverse. Even then, his true size is so large it makes that multiverse look āfiniteā by comparison.
Bare minimum they scale to their cosmology, arguably above it. Itās a matter of where you put those cosmologies (and seeing as how these two transcend concepts like death, time, and space), itās not hard to argue their existence is outerversal. Itās not basic ābeyond time and spaceā, itās explicitly the concepts they contain in their endlessness.
Appreciate the criticism and I do believe I could done even just a little bit better in terms of the connections and not unintentionally misrepresenting The Princess in any way now that I've reread them. Also kind of forgot about that kind of connection with Ford tbh. I just thought it would make for a fun battle where the two go through different realities before reaching their full potential in the finale at the very least.
Reality warpers that appear that seem less threatening at first glance in order to hide their true nature as deadly entities capable of destroying their worlds.
While Bill may initially be introduced as a comparatively minor nuisance, he doesnāt hide his true nature at all.
Both of them were born in universes that were centred around them which they have destroyed themselves (Euclydia and The Construct) and would soon be discovered and brought upon different dimensions courtesy of two people with a desire to solve a particular problem (Ford Pines wanted to solve the weird occurrences of Gravity Falls and The Narrator wanted to remove death and suffering from the world)
This just isnāt accurate on the Princessās end. She was created within the construct by the Narrator, but she was never brought into a different dimension by of him.
Bill is built way too different. PEAK! (You did said your gonna make the Darkiplier as well for her, Bill is super funny in terms of interaction and great debate).
Agreed and yeah I plan on trying to do the same thing with Darkiplier but I'll most likely do it at a much later time period since there are some original matchups I've been meaning to revamp for a while now and want to get those done before making another brand new idea. I'll most definitely still give it a try and see how it goes.
Ohh that's great hope you do well with your other MU's. Also might double check the Darkiplier blog too in case your gonna write the debate for the MU too. Goodluck
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u/Parking-Stable-2970 My matchup isn't popular enough for its own flair Jun 25 '25
Eh, Idk, a lot of the connections just donāt apply to the Princess, or are at least misleading