"Shifting Ciphers" | Bill Cipher vs The Princess (Gravity Falls vs Slay the Princess) [Connections and potential in comments]

[u/SpeedyHedgehog_91]

[u/SpeedyHedgehog_91]

Connections:

• Reality warpers that appear that seem less threatening at first glance in order to hide their true nature as deadly entities capable of destroying their worlds
• Both of them were born in universes that were centred around them which they have destroyed themselves (Euclydia and The Construct) and would soon be discovered and brought upon different dimensions courtesy of two people with a desire to solve a particular problem (Ford Pines wanted to solve the weird occurrences of Gravity Falls and The Narrator wanted to remove death and suffering from the world)
• Their greatest enemy would be in the form of two noble protagonists whose goal throughout their journey was to solve the strange events that occur in their worlds and eventually put an end to it (The Pines Family and The Player)
• They both rely on manipulating, instigating fear and bringing thoughts into reality in order to gain the upper-hand on their targets in questio
• Both can go through different forms, starting off in their seemingly harmless form (Bill’s regular form and The Damsel/Prisoner) before changing their physical appearances into something far more intimidating such as spirits and deformed monsters or even just emerging as giants of sorts that tower above everything else; in addition, both have shown to be capable of possessing the bodies of others, through particular circumstances, with notable examples being when they took temporary control of their respective series’ protagonists (Bill taking over Dipper’s body after a deal and The Princess, as the Wraith, tries to take full control of the Player’s body after previously being slain)
• As their stories reach their climax, both reach their full power and begin a world-ending endgame caused by their own means (Weirdmaggedon and The End of Everything)
• In the end, their destruction and chaos would come to an end once the two faced their own demise (Bill would tricked into making a deal with Stan Pines instead of Ford as he initially thought before being evaporated within Stan’s mind and, depending on what choice is made, The Princess would be killed by The Long Quiet upon taking the Narrator’s last wish); said demise was a request from those who were partially responsible for the events that occurred

Contrasts:

• The Princess, despite her role as an antagonist, genuinely cares for The Player and wants to watch the world experience death and rebirth while Bill is completely remorseless towards mankind and wants nothing but destruction and chaos
• Bill is an embodiment of weirdness while the Princess is the idea of change

[u/SpeedyHedgehog_91 → u/SpeedyHedgehog_91]

Fight Potential:

The fight would start off with the Princess in her base form locked within the cabin’s basement (whether it takes place before or after killing her attacker is up to your interpretation) until Bill summons himself into the room as the two meet. Bill tells the Princess that he knows who she is and how he plans to erase her from every possible timeline within the Endless Cycle. Upon hearing this, the Princess decides to fight back against the Dream Demon.

There are various ways the fight could go due to how the Princess possesses different forms in each dimension and how Bill travels through various dimensions himself; so many that they can’t be explained in its entirety here without feeling too long. Some variants of the Princess that could work well for this matchup would definitely be The Nightmare and The Wraith could work as phases that take place in the middle of the fight as one evaporates the other before being sent to another dimension where the next state of the fight begins.

Bill would then come face to face with either The Adversary/The Eye of the Needle or The Razor who destroy his eye, causing him to turn into his angry form. Once that timeline is destroyed, another begins with The Princess appearing as The Tower before emerging as The Apotheosis while Bill morphs into his monstrous form. No matter what timeline occurs throughout the fight, each of them would be warped and manipulated by both Bill and The Princess who cause tons of destruction and evaporate each dimension.

The climatic end would have Bill be summoned into the The Spaces Between before coming face to face with the Shifting Mound at long last after wiping out five of her vessels. With both of them breaking free from The Construct and are at their full power, the Shifting Mound could unleash multiple vessels while Bill uses his weirdness against them and fending off incoming vessels with his clones.

Endings:

If Bill wins, he could kill each vessel from within and travel back to the cabin where he meets the Damsel in the heart of The Shifting Mound and kills her, thus shattering the walls of The Construct.

If The Princess wins, she could force Bill to face numerous vessels in different timelines where he always loses. After being bested numerous times and growing weaker, he could start begging The Shifting Mound for anything she desires before finally succumbing to his demise.

[u/SpeedyHedgehog_91 → u/SpeedyHedgehog_91]

Debate Potential:

Not entirely sure who wins this one. Both are at extremely high levels of power and can warp reality at their own will. If I had to take a guess, maybe Bill? He should be more than capable of competing against The Shifting Mound and her vessels which he should have no trouble dealing with since he would already be familiar with them, including the non-corporeal variants since he’s able to interact with the undead.

[u/Adventurous_Tie_530 → u/SpeedyHedgehog_91]

Yeah bill is cooked

The shifting mound is the literal concept of change and encompasses all dualities, including order

Shes essentially an outerversal entity

[u/Watchdog_the_God → u/Adventurous_Tie_530]

She’s essentially an outerversal entity

[u/Adventurous_Tie_530 → u/Watchdog_the_God]

Specifically the shifting mound is outer

Princess is the avatar

[u/TheKillerYTz → u/Adventurous_Tie_530]

Bill is able to affect concepts like they are physical and him and Time Baby completely shook Dennis' backpack which is an outerversal construct

[u/Adventurous_Tie_530 → u/TheKillerYTz]

Yeah no

Its not outerversal

At best is low hyperversal cuz of the 11D stuff

And maybe low outer cuz of containing a type 3 multiverse but even then bill is not a good source for info as he lies and boosts his own ego

Besides, theres different types of concepts

The mound is a type 1 concept

Bill only affects type 3 which are not fundamental to the universe or multiverse

[u/TheKillerYTz → u/Adventurous_Tie_530]

Concepts in GF transcend and create reality. They are type 1s

Cosmology has Ideas theory in it which scales to Outerversal.

If you highball Princess then I can highball Bill. Be fair.

[u/Adventurous_Tie_530 → u/TheKillerYTz]

Concepts in GF transcend and create reality. They are type 1s

Are they platonic? Thats how you get type 1s

Hes at best got type 2 concept hax

Also only the long quiet could beat her by becoming one with them as he was their opposite as absolute nothingness

[u/TheKillerYTz → u/Adventurous_Tie_530]

Definition of Type 1 Concepts is literally the concepts unbound by reality, create abd transcend it. Tf?

Okay.

[u/Adventurous_Tie_530 → u/TheKillerYTz]

Type 1 are platonic forms

[u/TheKillerYTz → u/Adventurous_Tie_530]

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

Get off my dih 💔💔