Very in-depth and pretty good on explaining the more complex stuff for this debate, and yeah, I agree overall, those last few factors that it comes down to are what I personally think Hulk simply can't overcome, good job, overall. A 3rd Hulk L would suck, but I am rooting for Godzilla.
Agreed, though, I feel for Hulk because he is just that ridiculously strong and tough, yet against Ultima"s literal laundry list of haxes, it feels like Hulk is Achilles and Ultima is the arrow for composite Godzilla (rooting for Godzilla though so I'm not complaining)
They literally said they wouldn't do it due to potential toxicity, but I guess since everyone is preoccupied with disrespecting Deku as a character the HulkZilla toxicity was no longer a problem.
More or less both have similar ends (Low Mutliversal to being nice ComplexEnds) and while less haxed, he has enough to not get shit stomped and Power Growth would outdo what 99% of what Godzilla's have shown (minus Burning but you probably know the problem their)
You can get Godzilla in hell just as highe if not higher then Godzilla ultima
If he can destroy the cosmology then he can destroy Godzilla ultima who is apart of the cosmology
Edit: Thanks to u/Infinite-Sun7000 for help with the Godzilla Ultima stuff and the hax for the other Godzillas
Edit 2: Thanks to both the previously mentioned Infinite-Sun and a few for mentioning this, remove "Time Travel" as a wincon, that dose not work on Hulk (though outlast and "You are 0-D now should both be fine")
Edit 2: Thanks to both the previously mentioned Infinite-Sun and a few for mentioning this, remove "Time Travel" as a wincon, that dose not work on Hulk (though outlast and "You are 0-D now should both be fine")
Sensing other monsters (Extrasensory Perception) and giving birth to under building level creatures mid fight to me wasn't a big enough hax to put on there (same reason Earth's creatures we're also not mentioned).
IT's creatures mentioned due to them possibly having similar regeneration to Ultima
I wouldn't give up hope, this relies on the DB team doing a shit ton of research on the incredibly complicated Ultima, they could absolutely come to a different conclusion
Respect the hell out of this you good sir deserve a medal same with infinite sun. But hulk lost so L scaling, rigged, biased, plot armor, and invalid hulk strongest there is.
I'm not sure I agree with Hulk being 2 layers into high outer but not being able to reach IT because by tiering standards, that should be impossible because of how transcendent layers work to begin with afaik
Preach brotha! (There are parts you actually downplayed Hulk but I still believe Goji wins anyways despite not being truly linear with your take entirely).
I think it’s because it would require knowledge of the setting in which your opponent was born, which wouldn’t work since db combatants have no prior knowledge of each other
Basically I just no longer think "Beyond Concept of Dimensions" is enough to fully justify Low Outer to Outer (now think there should be a bit more to justify, as if not I know take it as "1-D higher than the base cosmology"), plus my iffiness on the scan for PR specifically (it seeming to be a leading question)
This using a soft composite for Godzilla though it dose not really matter (though I probably should have thrown stuff like the Non-Crossover Games, even though they add almost nothing).
Also did DB say they are using full composite (as the only time they really did that is for joke episodes or jokes in episodes, or Spawn vs Batman (which can be argued cannon on Spawn's side). Even if so I feel they would not include Marvel stuff for Godzilla, as to avoid something like "While Goku outstats, 'Dream 9 Toriko & One Piece & Dragon Ball Z Super Collaboration Special', SSJ3 and Gear 4 where narratively implies to be equal, so Gear 5 beats Buu Saga Goku" type logic.
Side Note: By not cannon I mean "Not cannon to a version of Godzilla" like how Zone Fighter and the IDW stuff is fine.
In The DB Cast of Donkey Kong vs King Kong, they lowkey pretty much confirmed that Godzilla would be a Self-Composite (as they were talking about if King Kong got in DB), so I think this list you made is accurate
It does. Godzilla is also directly compared to a well fed Galactus as well. Silver Surfer is also shit scared of Ghidorah who Godzilla beats and he also killed a full power Thor.
It isn't hard to accept that both Marvel and Toho think Godzilla is stronger than your green man.
They can take part of the same reality and still be not canon (also every reality in marvel has infinitely branching timelines) but fair and thank you for acknowledging that using comics from SIXTY YEARS ago is pointless
Hasn't it essentially been confirmed (For both OG series and recent) that Marvel Godzilla is just Showa Godzilla? In that case, I'd place the Marvel runs in the semi-composite too, with Heisei upscaling every one of his feats.
Kumonga (and probably the rest) have an argument for having similar Information regeneration as Ultima, so basically just annoy the ever loving crap out of Hulk.
I did not know what I would qualify as "Countering/Negating Summons" (like do I go by the power itself or what comes out), so I put ???
Although but i feel like in other timeline there a chance we likely would have gotten Superman vs Godzilla instead, and if that did happen, could Godzilla defeat Superman even with Ultima.
Hulk should win via scaling to the Kabbalah tree of life and the meta narrative of Eternity.
In the context of the VS Battle Wiki tiering system, which categorizes beings or entities based on their power and the scope of their abilities, Tier 0 is defined as:
Entities who are completely transcendent over any and all forms of hierarchical extension. More specifically: They not only encompass the collection of all possible "qualities" represented by High 1-A+, but also exceed it utterly, existing beyond any and all distinctions between ontologies and any division between objects. They are beyond differentiation, changeless, indivisible, ineffable, self-sufficient and completely unsurpassable.
If a universe is truly ineffable, meaning it transcends description and comprehension, it aligns with the requirement of being beyond differentiation and conventional understanding.
This attribute shows an existence that encompasses all possible states of being, which could indeed be seen as transcending the usual hierarchical structures of power or existence since it includes everything and its opposites, thus having no true opposition or limitation within itself.
By containing all contradictions and truths, this universe would not fit into a traditional hierarchy. It would exist outside of any hierarchical extension, where 'higher' or 'lower' has no meaning.
A universe that embodies all truths and contradictions would by definition be self-sufficient and unsurpassable by anything else, as it would include all possible forms of existence. Hulk scales to this via TOAA/TOBA.
As far as Godzilla’s wincons go, I don’t really agree with hulk being affected by time manipulation stuff since he’s already “punched through a time storm” (comics get weird). I also strongly disagree with the idea that Godzilla would just outlast hulk; hulk has specifically stated that he does not tire, and so long as he’s getting angrier, he’ll keep going. The dimensions hax stuff is troublesome for hulk though
Godzilla is High Hyperverse level%2C%20likely-,High%20Hyperverse%20level,-(Can%20destroy), but Hulk is Outerverse/SteelAvenger99#:~:text=Cube)%20%7C-,Outerverse%20level,-(After%20gaining) level.
Godzilla will explode if he absorbs too much radiation, destroying the second brain near his tail will paralyze him.
Confused on your logic of Hulk being high outer but being unable to reach Ultima. By its very definition as defined by the scaling system, this is an impossibility. For what it’s worth, It seems like you’re using the VSBW 1-A scaling standard I presume? Also, why are we scaling Zilla to outerversal? Attempts to do so on VsBW have been debunked a fair number of times. Might it change in the future? Sure, but as of now no one has presented arguments good enough to get him past 1-B
Also, i haven’t really seen a good argument against the need for hulk to simply destroy a singular avatar, which he is more than capable of doing. At the least, It took several hours for Ultima to create a new avatar when one was destroyed did it not, and we have little evidence suggesting it can interact with the world without its avatar. In fact, multiple passages suggest it needed to It also took multiple iterations and evolutions to reach a level of power that would even pose a threat to the hulk.
Honestly It seems a bit unfair to create this fanfiction version of Godzilla for the death battle that has abilities and powers never before seen in one singular version of zilla, but then ONLY use base 616 hulk. Should we give hulk all the abilities and powers of his alters too? So hulk gets professor Hulk and maestros intelligence AND Green Scars strength and Joe fixits cosmic form/ ability to absorb cosmic radiation?
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u/BCCBATTLES ⚡️Palpatine vs Frieza Fanatic🛸 Jul 28 '25
Very in-depth and pretty good on explaining the more complex stuff for this debate, and yeah, I agree overall, those last few factors that it comes down to are what I personally think Hulk simply can't overcome, good job, overall. A 3rd Hulk L would suck, but I am rooting for Godzilla.