Even if Luigi has a stat advantage debatable, Sanae has the innate ability to call her mothers two gods: Kanako and Suwako, which she does a lot in character. I don't see Luigi having much of a chance in a 3v1, especially when at least two (most likely all three) are high tiers in the Touhou verse with many abilities they can just utilize.
However, excluding that ability, I'm not sure. I admittedly don't know a lot about Sanae in terms of character and powerscaling, so I don't really know.
Tails is either a mid W or a hard W.
We barely know anything about Tails's scaling besides him being somewhere within Sonic's tier of power and speed. We can't even quantify Super Tails because he never appeared in modern times, so he has no scaling to Modern Super Sonic. Tails just has weaker scaling than Sonic compared to Luigi's scaling to Mario. Does not help that Tails is less experienced and haxxed than Sonic.
Personally, I don't agree with Tails. For what I buy: He still has solid scaling to Sonic. Even in a scenario of the cast growing in power over time (which I feel many canon stories and events directly contradict the idea of), Tails still has recent scaling to Sonic thanks to things like IDW, Dream Team, Frontiers, and CrossWorlds. And, due to SONIC characters remaining consistent/stagnant in power over time, rather than their power rising, Tails in Super would still scale directly to Sonic in Super (plus, we don't have any indication that the Emeralds give different level boosts to different characters, so the Super state for Tails would be identical in function to Sonic's, and vise-versa).
I also do personally feel both his arsenal and experience are being undersold, here. He's been fighting alongside Sonic, and even having multiple solo-battles, for many years of his life. He's also gone up against a wide variety of enemies, circumstances, and traversed a large variety of stages, as well.
First. I appreciate you being respectful, and I'll act the same way.
He still has solid scaling to Sonic, and due to SONIC characters remaining consistent/stagnant in power over time, rather than rising or something
But that's not really true. We have multiple statements, feats, and scaling that prove the Sonic characters have repeatedly gotten stronger between Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic Frontiers. Yeah, Classic Sonic's presence makes the scaling bizarre and wonky, but we can't just ignore everything else because two games decided to make him relative to Modern Sonic. especially when both have some contradictions within them
Tails in Super would still scale directly to Sonic in Super (plus, we don't have any indication that the Emeralds give different level boosts to different characters, so the Super state for Tails would be identical in function to Sonic's, and vise-versa).
We kind of do, though. There's been a few times when two characters utilized the emeralds, but one was clearly above the other. Or one couldn't sustain their form as effectively as another.
That aside. We know that Super States grows alongside Base States, as Super Sonic clearly gets stronger as Base Sonic becomes more powerful. So, we'd have no reason to say Super Tails is 1:1 with Super Sonic. Especially when Tails is consistently depicted as noticeably weaker and slower than Sonic, and he's less experienced using the emeralds power.
I also do personally feel both his arsenal and experience are being undersold, here. He's been fighting alongside Sonic, and even having multiple solo-battles, for many years of his life. He's also gone up against a wide variety of enemies, circumstances, and traversed a large variety of stages, as well.
His experience is nothing to scoff at. But I'm not really sure what his arsenal entails. We can't just assume he can do everything Super Sonic can because there's no evidence for that. Tails has a sizable arsenal, especially with items like wisps, boxes, etc. But he is noticeably less haxxed than Sonic when it comes to nothing but their base forms / Super States by virtue of him just not being playable in every game. in fact, not playable at all in like a decade outside of spinoffs, which Frontiers and beyond may finally fix.
Luigi has direct scaling to Mario. Tails is consistently portrayed as weaker than Sonic even if he's capable of keeping up to an extent speed-wise. Although I do think Sonic's stats are higher than Mario's, so maybe Tails's being lower doesn't actually matter
Edit: missed out on a few things. Even in Frontiers, Tails is portrayed as weaker than Sonic despite the uh... clear gameplay mistake Sonic Team made, lmao, and I can't recall anything in IDW that treats Sonic and Tails as relative, but I could easily be missing something. Crossworld... does it even count? They're just racing in vehicles, there's no reason to scale their physical stats to each other.
I do feel there's evidence for them growing in power over time. For me, personally, though, I feel the evidence indicating they've remained consistent in power is a lot more plentiful, and stronger, overall. It is just one example, but, Sonic and his younger self both perform identically when they try to go against Time Eater in their base forms, even reacting to the same attack on the same exact frame, when examining the second-to-last cutscene. Sincerely so, no pressure whatsoever to check this out, but, I have written a post about my thoughts on power-creep in Mainline SONIC, if you would ever want to look into it. It is perfectly okay if you'd rather not, of course, but it does contain all of my primary points in favor of stagnant power, and my main points in counter to growing power, so to speak.
<>
I do recall SA2 indicating that Shadow was having problems with the Super state. But, they never go into why, and, with Shadow being an artificial being with innate Chaos energy, I'm personally hesitant to assign the same example to Tails, so to speak. ( No later SONIC game either depicts Shadow as struggling at all with Super, or mentions it whatsoever, which is weird, to get off topic briefly. ) But, besides this, I can't think of a time multiple people have gone Super, with one being better than the other. Tails's Super form in Heroes looks lazy and lame, but unfortunately, "lazy and lame" is consistent with SEGA's decisions with anyone Not Sonic, I feel. Even in Sonic 3, rather than Knuckles, Tails, and Amy getting new sprites for Super like Sonic did, they just pulse a color, with no other visual changes. But, even if it looks lame, it is still identically Super, in name and function. And, I do recall Emerl and Metal Sonic being amped by the 7 Emeralds at different points, but, those weren't meant to be them transforming at all, to my understanding, and were just individual boosts from the Emeralds.
Of course, you could be referring to other examples and I'm misunderstanding, so I'm sorry if so.
<>
I won't go too into detail of Tails's arsenal, due to (truthfully) not wanting to write something too long. But, I'll mention a handful of cool things, I feel.
• So, Tails has access to an Ark of the Cosmos. This is an accessory worn by the user, and having one grants you free control over gravity. You can use it in a widespread range, fly with it, move and crush other people and objects with it, and flip individual gravity as well. Additionally, if equipped with an AotC, you can resist the effects of any external gravity manipulation.
• Tails has access to the 7 Chaos Emeralds. They have multiple manual abilities that are useful, such as time manipulation, teleportation, self-cloning, and allowing one to see and interact with the invisible and intangible. But, the Emeralds also have some passive effects. By just touching an Emerald, you can fully heal yourself, and replenish + increase your maximum stamina and HP, as seen in Tails Adventure. As seen in Otherworld Comedy, a singular Chaos Emerald was capable of protecting Tails's mind from the universe-crossing reality manipulation, that was rewriting memories. And, a single Chaos Emerald could also entirely protect Zavok from being infected and transmuted by the evolved Metal Virus.
• Tails has the Debuff Parry skill, as well. Anytime he parries an attack, the attacker's Attack Potency is decreased for a time.
• Tails was a part of the event to save Maginaryworld from collapse. In this time, he got hold of many different Forcejewels, some of which I think can have neat usage in a combat scenario. Firstly, he has Low Moonstone, which permanently lowers the max HP and Attack Potency of all enemies. Shield Quartz prevents everyone (except the user) from using Forcejewels for 4 turns. This could very possibly work on other magical gem type items, as well. Curse Opal lays a hex onto a target, preventing them from moving for a time (Tails can resist this hex, as well).
• It isn't solely "hax", but, I do want to bring up Slicer. This is an item from CrossWorlds, and it is specifically used to (very accurately) home in on a target, and bisect them. I feel having an item specifically made to cut in half whatever you are targeting is not only useful, but also a funny jump in tone from "Curse Opal".
I do also feel Tails has good resistances, but, yes. To keep this section brief.
I do feel there's evidence for them growing in power over time.
I read a good bit of it. Some points were valid, while others I felt weren't. Going down the list.
Dismissing Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord as outliers feels a bit much. That's two separate occasions of a base form defeating a super-tier foe. That's not all, either. Egg Dragoon appears as well, which is big. Because in Unleashed, an earlier model forced Sonic into turning Super as Base Sonic was completely powerless. Later on, Werehog Sonic, who is canonically stronger (but slower), proceeds to battle an upgraded version... which gave him a tough time and even worried him.
Sonic in Generations proceeds to fight an even more upgraded version in his base form, something he couldn't do against a lesser version, which outright shows a progression in his power.
Biolizard also is extremely difficult to scale. The version Shadow fought is blatantly superior to the one from SA2. It's straight-up doing shit that Shadow never even saw. Hell, sticking to the Shadow Gens. Mephiles also appears. In 06, he was vaguely superior to Shadow, but in Generations, he's basically a joke. Shadow wins fairly easily even when Mephiles tries jumping him.
You also can't use Biolizard in both encounters. Shadow kills Biolizard, so Sonic shouldn't have been able to fight him unless it was a different Biolizard, and in that case, that's further problematic in terms of scaling because the two are clearly not the same demon.
Super Egg Robo is superior to the Egg Emperor from Heroes. It's being fueled by a greater power source, and it's directly stated to be Eggman's most powerful creation at the time. Hell, we have no reason to believe the Egg Emperor is only as strong as the one from Heroes because it literally gets destroyed and explodes in Heroes. Why would Eggman recreate the same robot with the same strength knowing that strength wasn't enough? Eggman in IDW practically states he's not dumb enough to retry the same things. That would also have to ignore multiple mechs stated to be superior to the last, and logically being superior, like the Nega Wisp Armor or the Egg Dragoon, the latter of which has in-universe statements of having been worked on for years and is stated to be Eggman's pinnacle?
Iblis is... no offense, something that doesn't make sense. He has no barring on scaling outside of 06. We don't know his power growth. We know almost nothing about them. All we know is that it's clearly manageable by the Sonic cast, and that's where the scaling ends. I don't understand using him to try and debunk the notions of the characters growing when that just doesn't work.
There's a few more, but I don't want to make three comments—
but, Sonic and his younger self both perform identically when they try to go against Time Eater in their base forms, even reacting to the same attack on the same exact frame, when examining the second-to-last cutscene.
Sonic didn't boost once. Aka, him actually speeding up. Hell, we barely see them interact. We know that Modern is superior (at least in base) because Metal Sonic canonically gets upgraded throughout the years to try and best Sonic. Hell, you bring up Forces, but Forces outright states Sonic has grown stronger. Sonic just has AD, he becomes stronger rapidly to catch up with superior foes. Speaking of—
SA2: Sonic is initially beneath Shadow, then ties Shadow, then finally beats Shadow. Showing a progression.
Sonic Battle: The characters canonically grow stronger (repeatedly, mind you), even excluding the final battle against Emerl.
Sonic Advanced 3: Gemerl is directly stated to be superior to Emerl, yet Sonic can best him despite being relative to Emerl.
Shadow the Hedgehog: Shadow is directly stated and shown to have gotten stronger than in Heroes.
Multiple guides state Sonic has grown stronger or faster since his last adventure.
Sonic Unleashed: Egg Dragoon is stated to be the peak of Eggman's machinery
Sonic Generations: Perfect Chaos and Metal Overlord
Sonic Forces: Sonic is directly stated to have gotten stronger, gets stronger against for the third match against Infinite, and must grow stronger again after for the D.E.R, which is outright stated to be superior to Infinite who Sonic and Avatar struggled to beat.
Sonic Frontiers: Multiple times, Sonic is shown or stated to have gotten more powerful.
And there's dozens more guides and games that outright show or directly state Sonic surpasses his previous self.
Chaos energy,
If anything. Shadow should be the most appropriate to utilize the Super form as he has a better understanding of the emeralds and their power. He just isn't as experienced as Sonic in Super, so he was unable to sustain it.
The others, outside of Silver, only get "Super powered forms," which... that alone already calls into question whether or not they get the same amp. Especially since Super Knuckles is a thing mentioned in the game, yet when he transforms, it's either a "super-like state" or "super-powered" unlike "Super Sonic".
The rest is fair enough. I didn't realize Tails had quite an arsenal.
3
u/Angelzewolf Jul 31 '25
Imo.
Even if Luigi has a stat advantage
debatable, Sanae has the innate ability to call hermotherstwo gods: Kanako and Suwako, which she does a lot in character. I don't see Luigi having much of a chance in a 3v1, especially when at least two (most likely all three) are high tiers in the Touhou verse with many abilities they can just utilize.However, excluding that ability, I'm not sure. I admittedly don't know a lot about Sanae in terms of character and powerscaling, so I don't really know.
We barely know anything about Tails's scaling besides him being somewhere within Sonic's tier of power and speed. We can't even quantify Super Tails because he never appeared in modern times, so he has no scaling to Modern Super Sonic. Tails just has weaker scaling than Sonic compared to Luigi's scaling to Mario. Does not help that Tails is less experienced and haxxed than Sonic.