K. Rool definitely is more so on the bottom. He gets a bit of slander but that isn't anywhere near to the whole mess that is Kratos slander. His chain scaling to Mario is more in line with people arguing Mewtwo scaling to the Creation Trio or Super Neo Metal to Solaris. And honestly, it only seems like he'd really need Mario scaling against Dedede, King Pig, and Comp Hook tbh.
tbf to Metal, he has been shown to consistently fight on par with Sonic in the IDW comics, and in Heroes, they needed Super Sonic, Tails and Knuckles to beat him in his Overlord form
Yeah, I don't think anyone really contests Metal scaling to Base Sonic. Especially since Neo Metal forced him to even retreat before iirc. It's scaling Super Neo Metal or Overlord to Modern Super Sonic that matched Solaris that is where some people seem mixed. Though, it does seem like him scaling to modern Super Forms is more accepted, hence why he's on bottom where characters get more positive reception.
Ok I agree but lets be fair Metal directly fought Super Sonic + Super boosted Tails & Knuckles and can only be harmed by a Team Blast, and that's without talking about his Super Form.
I mean infinite at least has created an infinite dimension and can just create a sun and beat Sonic so even without scaling and just using on screen feats he certainly wouldn’t be a pushover. Yes he’d definitely be lower but he still would be pretty fast, and have a good amount of Hax. (Not to mention just creating phantoms of Shadow, Metal Sonic, and Zavok and chaos 0.). (Seriously forces really fumbled the bag with the potential this guy had narratively)
Whilst I agree Infinite doesn’t scale to the super-tier stuff like some people try to wank him to (though an argument could be made if you consider Speed Simulator) he DOES flat out directly scale to the top tier of Base Sonic scaling since he stomps on Base Sonic twice during the events of Forces. Considering that Shadow Generations shows Base Shadow has surpassed Metal Overlord and Infinite is also shown to be superior to Base Shadow during Episode Shadow Infinite should also be superior to Metal Overlord e
In hindsight, it is a little funny that Nolan, the ultimate feats man, beat Bardock, the ultimate scaling merchant, and everyone hated it lmao. Dragon Ball motion is unparalleled
The big controversy about it was that DB's method of calcing the sun disk was unreliable because they used two different formulas. Im no math guy but thats generally what I remember, iirc there were numerous recalcs done afterwards, seems like its a feat like Izuku's storm cloud punch in the finale of MHA, where we'll need to see it animated before we get a definitive calc
For an accurate calculation, we need to at least know if the storm reached the US, because there is nothing about it other than the fact that it got into the Pacific jet stream and is moving and may someday reach the US. Because we don't even know that.
i actually ran very loose calcs on sun disk omni man vs bardock chainscaled to that filler scene of king bardock casually destroying planets with a hand wave and i found out that he would need to absentmindedly move his arm around 8000 times as a super saiyan to destroy omni man
Ehhh agree with your piint... But probably should have picked some better choices
metal definitely shows some good feats, most recently with keeping up with modern day shadow in sonic x shadow gen. And taken on basicly 3 early modern supers, with then even noting they had to put everything they had to in order to stop him.
mewtwo also fall under this since the information we get on its is pretty scares, but we do know he should at least scale to mons like the swords of justice and MAYBE the weather trio in there base forms. (there is also the case of Shadow Mewtwo, which has shown continental feats... But that who thing is considering poken tournament canonistity… so yeah).
Scaling Mewtwo above Pokemon like the Swords of Justice or Weather Trio isn't really contested. It's the scaling of him full on to the Creation Trio that gets mixed reception.
Hoopa pulled alternate reality versions of the Creation Trio and Rayquaza out of his portals. Also if the Hoopa movie alone puts Mega Ray to the level of the Creation Trio that would simultaneously chainscale The Mega Latis, The Kyurems, The Primals, Deoxys (possibly by scaling from Mega Ray in ORAS and Origins), and Regigigas to the Creation Trio which wouldn’t make sense at all
All of those you mentioned either fought alongside Dialga and Palkia or were there simply for transportation in the case of Latios and Latias and weren't exactly fighting
Deoxys (possibly by scaling from Mega Ray in ORAS and Origins)
Deoxys does NOT scale to Mega Ray, we literally see it fight on par with its base form and when Rayquaza goes Mega during the Delta Episode he oneshots the meteor it was piloting
Kyurem tanked hits from Rayquaza and Groudon tanked a hit from Kyurem the rest should scale to each other that’s the scaling. Deoxys canonically fights Mega Rayquaza in ORAS. And the Latis helped Rayquaza make a tornado that held back all the other Legendaries in the Hoopa movie, that movie’s scaling is weird and should be ignored not to mention that these were literally alternate versions of the characters
Chainscaling in Pokémon gets extremely messy since it has so many different iterations, canons, and alternate versions so compositing all of them doesn’t really work unless the feats end up super consistent with one character, and Mega Ray = Creation Trio isn’t consistent or substantially backed up by lore at all
Well you see Metal, Bardock and Mewtwo are from the most glazed franchises ever made and they naturally attract those kinds of people who buy their hype moments and aura for them to ignore the faulty chain scaling and just dickride them to no end, even if they're 100% objectively wrong.
tbf, Metal has been shown to consistently keep up with Sonic in the IDW Comics (Which are canon) and in Heroes, the good guys needed Super Sonic, Tails and Knuckles to beat him.
I agree... for the most part, at least for the Heroes part since that had outside context and other things for it to go the way it did. Metal did need a lot of prep time for him to get to that point tbf
It's why it confuses me when people mention Overlord in debates when Metal just has a completely stronger and better form than that, one that doesn't require prep time and outside context to transform into mind you
TBH I don’t really get the appeal of the 13 on DB, Vector, Megatronus, Maximo and maybe Primea are the only ones that have enough to actually talk about for a full analysis, and the former two are really the only ones that have proper justification for their scaling because of actually having major media appearances
Is mostly because of K. Rool’s matchups being more “varied” power wise
It goes from Risky boots which is at maximum super human while he’s 10 times faster and stronger off his own feats alone
To King dedede which is at minimum planet level with K. Rool needing chain scaling to match
He has a weird mix of a “consistently strong enemy” “varied arsenal” “too few appearances” and “specific thematics” that make it so he either stomps or needs chain scaling for a chance
I do think he might need a couple of more appearances to grasp his strengths but so far I think he wins most because most of his matchups since bananza gave him a gigantic buff in all apartments
he punched Void into the drill and made it collapse on a single punch, he catches up to the Bananium root to the surface of the planet in minutes, fights with a post-returns DK that can punch down a small moon and DK needs a buffed form to damage K. Rool, and a amazing Hax in the King of rot reality warping abilities
Although that might just be because his matchups are designed more for a pre-bananza K. Rool
The moon thing is not a serious scale. The scene pretty obviosuly conveys that not much force is needed to drop the moon, especially since if you play as Diddy he just falls into it and it drops. Nothing else dk does is anywhere near that scale.
In tropical freeze many of his feats like rising frozen boats from the sea, pulling giant vines out of the floor and changing entire surroundings (while not as big as the moon) does show he can do something similar
also one punch from him can throw K. Rool into the sky creating a massive shockwave that completely cleans it. And before you say anything he can do that without bananza forms since the cutscene just needs DK to make K. Rool’s HP to drop to 0 which all forms can do, including base
So I think this feat isn’t as much of a outlier as it seems
None of those feats are strange and are consistent with Jungle Beat and Bananza.
The moon in those scenes is clearly not normal, and in a gag sense. So even if you took it serious it wouldn't be a good feat anyway since it doesn't act anything like a real moon.
Putting Metal Sonic here feels a little unfair, sure he has a shit ton of anti-feats but at his best he's shown plenty of times that he is on par with characters like sonic
Aren't most of the guys Kratos scales off of also very lore-heavy? We rarely see many characters do things on-screen that aren't them fighting Kratos, after all.
I mean, K. Rool throws hands with DK more regularly than any other DK villain, so K. Rool = DK = literally any other star child due to him being a star child makes sense.
Honestly in K. Rool's defense, all of his chain scaling more or less happens on screen with valid canonicity to back it up, not to mention each time he is shown on screen K. Rool consistently can stand toe-to-toe with the Kongs to where just the mere sight of the Kremlin King makes the likes of DK go on high alert.
Okay, with metal i don't see the problem as his scaling is pretty reasonable as its just scaling him to characters he should scale to, unless someone is trying to scale him to solaris which i am of the opinion no one scales to him at full power.
Bardock literally has nothing else if you don't chain scale him so at that point just don't use him.
And mewtwo is one of those that i can see why people you put him there with people scaling him to pokemon like creation trio who he doesn't scale to.
Bardock was espeically gulity of this IMO and people still keep whining that he should have folded Omni-Man. IE: super sayian, and comparing his speed with Adult Goku despite the fact that Goku had much more advanced training from a much younger age. Especially training from Korin, which was all about speed and agility training.
Okay I was about to say "Haha im so glad im not guilty of this" but then I saw K Rool and remembered that the only way I can make my Killer Croc v K Rool Match-Up work is from ONE story from Batwoman 2011
Mario is like wall level though and dk is like... maybe small building if you are generous. None of that justifies acting like k rool is massively strong.
No, Mario being wall level is so core to his character that bricks are literally one of his core pieces of iconography. You can literally just buy Mario brick blocks irl. Mario stays wall level through these cosmic events.
So we’re gonna ignore that Diddy scales to Dk and that he had the boost from his rockets (same rockets that let him fly into space in seconds) yes we are
To answer this one : you’re lying and you know that
dk is like... maybe small building if you are generous.
Jungle Beat and Bananza has given him some good striking and strength feats. Its pretty plausible he can take down a skyscraper, maybe a bit above that. He can literally tunnel through stages with his punches.
Metal sonic isn't chain scaled. He's shown on several occasions to fight equally with the main cast and even overpowered them a few times in the comics.
When the fuck does anyone talk about the 13 primes there's literally a whole line dedicated to them and no one cares besides for megatronus and don't the primes actually have feats from across the continuities
I think mainly besides, vector, megatronus and alpha trion, none of them really do anything of significance, at least with those they have major events in some form of transformers history ( vector being a mai character in cybertron,megatronus for inspiring the decpeticons and alpha trion for being optimus mentor) , what does anyone remember onxy prime for other than when shockwave wore his skin that one time
Yeah onyx is only notable for being shockwave in disguise and having the coolest design despite being my favourite prime.
But alpha trion I argue should never of been a prime him being on the same level as optimus and rodimus just doesn't feel right him being a prime means he should be in charge of cybertron instead of a corrupt senate tfone is the only trion I like,
vector is chill,
quintess is the dumbest thing ever because they never explain his connection to the quintessons so where left wondering why his creations are trying to commit genocide against there cousins he needs to be scrapped entirely and the quintessons need to be there own thing
Amalgamomus is only good as macadam in cyberverse as the guard for iaconous
Liege maximo is just loki
Nexus is cool but is never explained how he combines
Prima is either an asshole or just boring
Micronus and alchemist is nothing
Solus is a plot device for megatronus despite being the best craftsman
Nova I only liked in idw tfone was boring
Megatronus is cool
And star convoy is apparently just optimus before being Reincarnated into Orion pax
Sry but I cannot buy Kratos being anything above planet level. K Rool Mario scaling a bit iffy for me personally.
Metal is a direct equal to Sonic, Bardock and Mewtwo are admittedly a bit fishy but I think Mewtwo got a decent argument to be universal with the manga.
Honestly for me, it just depends on how far we go. I struggle to believe chain scaling akin to Condiment King being Outerversal or something like that.
The difference is that dragonball characters are from a world where chain scaling makes sense. Kratos and k rool arent, and are chain scaled to made up stuff.
Made up stuff in question is from actual feats in the game
Kratos: scales to thor who shattered the world tree and sent jourmangander back in time, Helios who moved the sun , atlas and Hercules who held up the world, the Valkyrie’s moving through realms, the primordials creating the universe from their punches
King k rool: scales to or above dk who punched the moon down from orbit, has kept up with the Mario cast, dk is one of the 7 star children and is stated to be physically superior to everyone besides bowser, this includes yoshi who created a consolation of stars
Kratos: scales to thor who shattered the world tree and sent jourmangander back in time,
This doesn't de facto convey a specific strength level.
Helios who moved the sun ,
Which is a chariot...
atlas and Hercules who held up the world,
Which has been confirmed to just be Greece
the Valkyrie’s moving through realms,
Which means nothing
the primordials creating the universe from their punches
Which not only did devs clarify was a symbolic depiction rather than literal, but the Greek universe is just Greece.
King k rool: scales to or above dk who punched the moon down from orbit,
Which if you play the game you would know isnt meant to be interpreted as a pure strength feat, because if you play the scene as Diddy it shows that a light tap is enough to drop that moon. And dk has nothing else implying he is that strong.
has kept up with the Mario cast,
Who aren't that strong.
dk is one of the 7 star children
Which has no clear defined meaning,
and is stated to be physically superior to everyone besides bowser,
Which means nothing because Mario isnt that strong.
this includes yoshi who created a consolation of stars
No he didn't lol. The guy became stars because he fell into the sky. It wasn't implied to have anything to do with yoshi's strength, nor would that correspond to a clear strength level anyways.
So yeah, if you stop using disingenuous fake arguments all this goes away.
So we’re going to ignore his other feats of moving a giant wheel, lifting an iced ship while standing on it, slitting a plane in half, splitting a mountain sized ship and punching lord Ferdinand so hard he created a giant wave, punching K rool so hard he rolled down to the mountain’s base etc
Obvious lie
Literally means he has the power to take over the universe at birth which would put him above everyone else in that era including the yoshis who can create constellations
Another obvious lie
That’s just genuine coping lol
Not mention your whole debunks are just “nuh uh” without anything actual substance behind them and for your information this scan confirms it was Yoshi turned Raphael into a constellation
, lifting an iced ship while standing on it, slitting a plane in half
Why would anyone need to ignore these? They aren't even that big of feats.
punching K rool so hard he rolled down to the mountain’s base etc
Okay? Punching someone through a roof isn't a cosmic feat lol.
Literally means he has the power to take over the universe at birth which would put him above everyone else in that era including the yoshis who can create constellations
I don't know if you have ever consumed fiction before, but someone being a fated entity with massive potential can mean things other than how hard they punch. Hell, a lot of times what makes heroes who they are is not how strong they are, but how skilled they are.
Not mention your whole debunks are just “nuh uh” without anything actual substance behind them and for your information this scan confirms it was Yoshi turned Raphael into a constellation
They're not even debunks. I'm just explaining games to you that you are clearly not that familiar with.
Doesn't matter. We know you didn't play it. Even grade schoolers that play these games don't make these ridiculous interpretations. It is seriously sad kids that haven't reached adolescence have better media literacy than you.
What do you mean, 'kept up with the Mario cast'. DK has never directly fought Mario before and everything demonstrated by the characters makes it clear DK is significantly physically stronger.
And stop talking about that moon feat. Its a gag scene and this is made clear from the properties of the moon. Taking it seriously just makes you come off as lacking any common sense.
yoshi who created a consolation of stars
We know not to take anything you say seriously from this point forward.
181
u/1997_Ford_F250 My matchup isn't popular enough for its own flair 28d ago
Pretty fair image although at least with K Rool and Metal they constantly throw hands with the main character