Community Debate Chart Results: Sonic vs Dragon Ball

[u/DatKidZ364]

[u/Dear-Implement2950]

I don't feel I agree with 16 beating Omega. Omega has repeatedly shown to keep up with other base level Sonic characters, and is even depicted as stronger than Shadow. To my understanding, those that voted on this believe Base Metal can defeat Cell, so, I'm not sure what is going on with Omega VS 16, truthfully.

The same thing for Gamma VS 16. Gamma was canonically able to hold their own against Sonic, and their reproductions could serve as a threat as well.

[u/Dear-Implement2950 → u/Dear-Implement2950]

Actually, this applies to a few other matchups, as well.

Knuckles VS Piccolo is seen as close, but not Knuckles VS Granolah and Jiren? At this point in the timeline, wouldn't Piccolo be more powerful than those two? They don't really have any hax that would be a notable risk to Knuckles that Piccolo lacks, to my understanding. Knuckles scales to Sonic directly, so, I understand his matchups being in "close" along with Sonic's, but only one of them is.

Perfect Chaos VS Omega Shenron, as well. Sonic VS Goku is listed as close, but Perfect Chaos, whom has canonically matched Super Sonic in combat twice, and uses the same power source to exist as he does, is marked as solidly losing to a non-Super character. That feels odd, truthfully.

I do know of the theory that GT takes place post-Super, so, maybe that's the intention there, for Omega Shenron's scaling?

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I do also disagree with Vegeta beating Shadow, personally. I assume it is due to Forced Spirit Fission, but as the name and story imply, it is a technique specifically designed to extract foreign Spirit energy, of which Chaos energy is not. I know of Vegeta mentioning Namakian Fusion as something FSF could affect, but we have zero indication that isn't a Ki-based technique, so, FSF still only affects Ki, to our understanding. And, as directly stated by Moro, Forced Spirit Fission requires the user to physically harm the target, with each hit. The Super state has passive invulnerability, which shuts down FSF as a wincon off of that.

( Page from Chapter 62 of Dragon Ball Super, "Edge of Defeat". )

There are multiple more reasons, but, I don't feel FSF has any solid shot at affecting Super Shadow, whatsoever.
Shadow can also physically match Super-level stats when he is 'maxed out' on his Doom Powers, which are an innate, biological enhancements activated by Black Doom. If Shadow has his Doom Powers in the matchup, then Vegeta has to deal with Super Shadow stats, regardless of if Super is actually a present factor in battle, and regardless of if Forced Spirit Fission could play a role in that.

[u/Complete_Cow5305 → u/Dear-Implement2950]

that's Jiren, not Hit

[u/Dear-Implement2950 → u/Complete_Cow5305]

Thank you. I meant to say Jiren, but my brain didn't connect.

[u/Dear-Implement2950 → u/Dear-Implement2950]

That does make the accidental comment of "Hit doesn't have hax that Piccolo doesn't also have" funny, I suppose.

[u/CookiedDough → u/Dear-Implement2950]

Turns out Piccolo always had time powers, he just never used them because he thinks it's boring.

[u/Director838u48 → u/Dear-Implement2950]

The vote was not just for based metal , but even that metal is way higher on the totem pole

[u/Fezzih → u/Dear-Implement2950]

To my understanding, those that voted on this believe Base Metal can defeat Cell 

Why do you think people believe that? There's people who think Base Metal is not enough to beat Perfect Cell and need his other forms too, people scale different some characters.  If you think they are wrong for It, that's a different conversation.

[u/Dear-Implement2950 → u/Fezzih]

people scale different some characters.

Definitely so.

When it comes to that matchup, on this subreddit, anytime I see discussion of the verdict that goes into details, I feel I don't frequently see many say that Metal needs Super and/or Overlord to beat Cell. I won't say that's a majority, as there isn't a solid way to gauge the percentage belief of people, but it does seem frequent enough to be possible, for this page/post's votings.

[u/Fezzih → u/Dear-Implement2950]

It depends on what people are using tbh, if they only sticking to Cell Manga, Base Metal is enough. 

Toei Cell tho... Maybe the people you see on this subreddit are using Solar System Cell instead of his Crazy scaling from Toei. 

That's a guess tho, can't really say what people are thinking. For 16 vs Omega, people probally confused him with Gamma, and Toei 16 kinda wins against him. 

[u/Dear-Implement2950 → u/Fezzih]

I do personally feel both win against Toei 16, though, the accidental confusion between Gamma and Omega is a common thing, from what I have seen both in and out of powerscaling. That is very possible, in this context, as you mentioned.