What happens when your verse gets capped at 12D vs what happens when your verse gets scaled to multiple layers above infinite dimensional. Literally, Banner won purely cause Ultima (based on where DB scaled both) could never reach the level of the cosmology where Hulk respawns and so he couldnt destroy the green door and stop Hulks revives, meanwhile 12D Kyle is barely above 11D Simon in terms of power, and so Simons power growth would make him surpass Kyle quickly.
No they didnt, they said in a black box that both the DC and GL cosmologies can be scaled higher with higher interpretations, but those are useless in terms of the verdict unless actually used in the episode for Kyles/DC's scale, and in the episode itself, 11D and 12.3D is where Death Battle scaled Simon/GL's cosmology and Kyle/DC's cosmology at, there being potential higher arguments for DC is not useful for Kyle winning if the team doesnt buy those arguments nor uses them.
The Reality Fiction Difference they used for both basically made them Outer regardless in DB. The scan they used for that was specifically talking about the godsphere though.
Literally put Godzilla to Outer cause of R>F in this episode my guy.
Also again mentioned the life equation to reality over fiction as a counter to Simons ability to transcend dimensional gaps. Where they had to bring Simon's own Reality Fiction differences to overcome it.
Edit: Liam does go on and talk about this later on in casts. Even state's that this whole nonsense of reality fiction difference's is kinda is kinda C.S. Lewis fault in the 1 trillion lions vs Pokemon episode.
Like It's pretty obvious at least for me
Edit 2: Ok maybe it's not obvious as I though it was given the whole debate we had below this but I think they explained it enough to imply that level of power. Especially with How Liam keep's mentioning these difference's as Outer in the main DB cast's whenever his arguing for a character that has reality fiction differences or simple Joke's involving character's transcending the real world.
Literally put Godzilla to Outer cause of R>F in this episode my guy.
Link me at what point in the episode they put Godzilla at outer, but even if they did, so? Thats a completely different character from a completely different cosmology and a completely different episode that has nothing to do with Kyle and Simon. If they did buy R>F = outer in Hulkzilla that doesnt change that they didnt buy it back during Kylemon, just look at Thor or Shadow having different scaling in every episode they have been in.
Liam straight states that the whole nosense of this reality fiction outer is cause of C.S. Lewis in the 1 trillion lions vs Pokemon episode.
Okay, then he should have actually mentioned this in the official episode instead of only mentioning both being 11D and 12.3D in the analysis of Kylemon.
Also again mentioned the life equation to reality over fiction as a counter to Simons ability to transcend dimensional gaps. Where they had to bring Simon's own Reality Fiction differences to overcome it.
Which once again isnt the same as them giving either character outer scaling cause once again at no point in the episode do they mention R>F makes the characters outer.
They said that Simon transcending the fictional version of himself is equal to the life equation which, and I quote "The Life Equation -- like its counterpart, the Anti-Life Equation -- is a conceptual artifact from a higher reality, originating in a Platonic realm that is, in a sense, more "real" than we are." That is as outer as it gets.
Link me at what point in the episode they put Godzilla at outer, but even if they did, so? Thats a completely different character from a completely different cosmology and a completely different episode that has nothing to do with Kyle and Simon.
Keep in mind the only scan they used to Justify Godzilla getting on this level is A scan of IT transcending the world through Reality Fiction Difference's. I'm sure you can find argument's involving more than infinite realms for Ultima but that kinda has to go beyond what DB said in the episode. Not to mention even Outside the episode Idk where they scale Ultima at given they've never covered the character before.
In term's actual statement's of them being Outer no DB character has ever been stated to be on that level. They usually just stack it up after infinite higher dimensions.
We still know this is the case cause Ultraguy has put yu narukami at that level through SMT scaling. Specifically using an Reality Fiction Difference as evidence Ahem Kaballah Tree em I right Marvel and SMT fans. and is also his 2nd most recent blog through the kickstarter era.
Okay, then he should have actually mentioned this in the official episode instead of only mentioning both being 11D and 12.3D in the analysis of Kylemon.
I think that was the whole point of the Life Equation Reality Fiction Difference.
Which once again isnt the same as them giving either character outer scaling cause once again at no point in the episode do they mention R>F makes the characters outer.
This seem's like more of a complaint of them not stating directly it's Outer. We all DB never directly state's any vs term's in their episode in order to keep them more coherent. And this is despite people like Ultraguy name dropping them at that level in his blogs. Were legit never gonna get them to actually state that in the show cause casuals.
We at least know they put stuff above infinite higher dimensions at least but that's pretty much it even including black boxes. Given the only infinite higher dimension mentions is the Hulkzilla episode and a Galactus vs Unicron. I'm not joking, in every other black box they never state it has infinite, even specifying an arbitrary number through snowflake fractral dimensions or simply stating there's a numerous amount or multiple of themat least for DC lol.
Now that I think about it, they didn't even mention Kyle or Simon being Hyper to Complex Multi despite using Dimensional Scaling and directly stating these term's in their DB cast's.
Thats high hyper, not outer. Godzilla Ultima transcending his cosmology would be outer in VSBW, but not by death battles standards.
We still know this is the case cause Ultraguy has put yu narukami at that level through SMT scaling. Specifically using an Reality Fiction Difference as evidence
But if he doesnt use that logic in the episodes themselves, thing which wasnt mentioned at all in Kylemon, then it wouldnt make neither Simon nor Kyle outer.
In term's actual statement's of them being Outer no DB character has ever been stated to be on that level. They usually just stack it up after infinite higher dimensions.
Thats high hyper, not outer. Godzilla Ultima transcending his cosmology would be outer in VSBW, but not by death battles standards.
My whole point is Ultima got there cause of an Reality Fiction Difference scan which is generally not something you'll find anywhere else.
But if he doesnt use that logic in the episodes themselves, thing which wasnt mentioned at all in Kylemon, then it wouldnt make neither Simon nor Kyle outer.
I get you logic but like also at the same allot of herald's even including Superman would be universal to multiversal at most in his episode? Like Galactus vs Unicron is the only episode where they mention to be high hyper with stack's of realms above it.
Thats what im saying.
Oh ok then, much more on the term Outer itself in DB I'm guessing? I think the intent should be factored still given this is "Archie Sonic actually wasn't punched across multiverse, he was only relieving memories which you'll only understand in a QNA you'll probably never watch" DB standards that was a joke pls don't kill me DB staff.
I'm much more referring to how they scale thing's above infinite higher dimensions or on that level as Outer at least here. In DB they might never really state that but that's basically my intent with how they treat R>F.
It's just very wierd that they scale Reality Fiction Difference's to mean the entity exists on a level above the Main Marvel Multiverse only without the transcendent realms outside through this scaling with Ultima seeing his own infinite dimensional multiverse as fictional.
I don't think there ever gonna state anything's outer or hyper in any of there main DB's directly. Even in this one you wouldn't know they scaled Hulk to Outer cause they talked about the scope and size of the main multiverse. so briefly Idk if anyone even heard them mention infinite higher spatial dimensions directly for like the first time ever.
Imagine people think the TOAA is 12D at best Lmao cause of at most being 9 layer's above the main marvel multiverse.
If the life equation was literally just another dimensional gap above 12.3D they gave to DC then they wouln't have emphasized it so much. 13D would have been nothing to DB Simon lol.
You either go with 13d Life equation being above Simon's transcendence instantly despite the episode stating he could even the odd's through transcending dimensions 7 layers at an instant or Outer Life Equation being far above anything Simon can transcend normally without similar Reality Fiction Argument's. Pick your Poison.
Ok, apparently I was summoned to explain how episode put both on Outer.
For Simon, they used R>F, which suggests that if character transcended from fiction into real world - he’s Outer. In Simon’s case, one of his versions went from Manga into more real world.
(Note: I don’t buy R>F making characters Outer, and think if character transcended into more real world, he just went from one layer of dimension to higher dimension, but episode used it to put Simon on Outer)
For Kyle, The Life Equation transcended DC Multiverse, which put it on Outer (actually higher, but episode ignored it).
Yes, post-analysis explained this things really bad. But it’s implied that both transcended their Multiverse, so they both Outer. Or at least it’s how I understand it.
But it’s implied that both transcended their Multiverse, so they both Outer.
No, cause at no point in the episode did Death Battle say they consider transcending their multiverses to be outerversal, thats something VSBW do consider outer, but Death Battle dont, or at least didnt say they do at all in the episode.
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u/itownshend17 🦔 Sonic vs Goku Enthusiast 🐉 7d ago edited 7d ago
What happens when your verse gets capped at 12D vs what happens when your verse gets scaled to multiple layers above infinite dimensional. Literally, Banner won purely cause Ultima (based on where DB scaled both) could never reach the level of the cosmology where Hulk respawns and so he couldnt destroy the green door and stop Hulks revives, meanwhile 12D Kyle is barely above 11D Simon in terms of power, and so Simons power growth would make him surpass Kyle quickly.