r/DestinyTheGame 2d ago

Bungie Suggestion This "New Gear" half-botched system needs to go as it's too restrictive and doesn't allow players to play the way they want with their favorite loadouts.

Bungie, you either make ALL GEAR that drops during the newest expansion to be marked as "New Gear" or just disable the whole thing like today until you figure out how to make it work properly. And Exotics should be outside this system and be "Permanently New" or something.

If your new team is unable to make fun to play gear, they just hire a new team. Don't make some forced artificial changes.

Remember Forsaken? Everybody and their mom were farming for the new armors and guns and stuff outside of maybe a couple of old exotics. You know why? Because the new stuff was fun to play with and performed better overall (like guns got an extra perk and new cool archetypes, etc.).

Remember the Witch Queen? The same thing. Everybody was farming for the new stuff.

But when you release some ugly stuff with useless perks we shouldn't be forced into using it. Just make good stuff and the game will get back its Golden Age.

894 Upvotes

193 comments sorted by

217

u/SkimBeans 2d ago

I don’t have a problem with new gear doing like, 10% extra damage or whatever it is (although If it went away I wouldn’t be complaining)

But forcing me to use a full loadout of featured gear to get an A grade so I don’t have to put my power level at -50 is really annoying.

Pretty much the only build I’ve been able to use this season is Starfire protocol, because a lot of the great warlock builds involve exotics that aren’t featured.

74

u/Galaxy40k 2d ago

This. Because of the scoring bonus, you double dip on penalties from using old gear - You do 10% less damage because it lacks the tag AND you do less damage because you need to add an additional -10 modifier to make up for the lost bonus.

Combined with the unstable core cost, and the whole system pushes you to use just 1-2 builds that are made entirely/mostly of New Gear, instead of constantly swapping around builds and mixing things up to keep the grind fresh and interesting

39

u/Angelous_Mortis 2d ago

Don't forget, you also TAKE more damage because the artifact gives DR for wearing new gear, too. :)

-14

u/killer6088 2d ago

Are people just somehow running around in full Tier 5 gear? Because thats the only way you get max damage and DR values.

14

u/Angelous_Mortis 2d ago

Some folks are, yeah.

-13

u/killer6088 2d ago

Ok, But like if you have full Tier 5 gear then why are you even running old gear? Like who is running around with 4 pieces of old armor? Also, using a couple non featured weapons is not going to change how effectively you kill things.

6

u/Angelous_Mortis 2d ago

...  What are you even talking about?  The person i replied to is talking about if you DON'T have them then you're getting multiple penalties, you're doing less damage because of the Power Delta, you're doing less damage because you're not wearing all t5 gear.  I added onto this by saying you're also taking more damage because you don't have the DR granted by t5 gear (in addition to the fact that you're taking more damage due the Power Delta).  It's not about having and not wearing, it's about not having in the first place so you start off with that disadvantage in the first place.

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u/killer6088 2d ago

Do people just not read comments? That person said you lose 10% damage which is ONLY true if you had a tier 5. Same with DR. If someone has Tier 5 gear, then they are very high light level. Which means they are not struggling with having to add one extra modifier. Thats the point man. People seem to think this new gear bonus just makes your guns automatically into god tier meta weapons.

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u/Angelous_Mortis 2d ago

Do people just not read comments?

Clearly you don't.

This. Because of the scoring bonus, you double dip on penalties from using old gear - You do 10% less damage because it lacks the tag AND you do less damage because you need to add an additional -10 modifier to make up for the lost bonus.

They said you DO 10% less damage, not LOSE 10% damage.

-2

u/killer6088 2d ago

You don't do 10% less fucking damage. You do normal damage. Then when using a featured gun, you do either 2, 4, 6, 8, or 10% extra damage based on the Tier the gun it.

This also does not matter since Tuesday it will be a flat 5% extra.

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u/ChoiceFudge3662 1d ago

Bungie deliberately designed this system this way, not to push players into using new shit, but to push us into using what they want us to.

2

u/Bard_Knock_Life 2d ago

It’s only 10% at t5. By the time you’re utilizing t5 gear to level, you’ve probably leveled to ~400. As we go forward though, it’ll be more annoying as we have t4-5 gear as a baseline that is no longer “new”.

-3

u/killer6088 2d ago

Why? In its already confirmed that in Renegades that all current featured gear will still be featured in Renegades. It sounds like gear will stay featured for a year and not just 6 months. So if you got a full set of Tier 5 feature gear at the end of this season, you will start next season with a full set of featured gear too.

11

u/D2_BranBean 2d ago

Okay but now think a year ahead. Now all the armor we've gotten this expansion will no longer be "new gear." So what if people a year from now really enjoy running some of these pieces of armor for the set bonus Bungie just introduced? Even Vivian (I think that's the dev) said in one of their little deep dives before EoF she was excited to see the armor potential grow over time because of combining older set effects with new set effects. Be kind of hard to do that when that gear is no longer going to be "featured"

6

u/Aeowin 1d ago

Okay but now think a year ahead

honestly in a year we won't even have these systems because tyson green will get fired and replaced by someone else with a completely different idea for the game lmao

2

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

And at the end of renegades when you have your full set of t5 that doesn't carry over to next year what then?

-3

u/killer6088 1d ago

While we don't know exactly yet. I believe there will always be a season of overlap. So at the start of the Season after Renegades, I can we our current season armor no longer being featured but Renegades will still stay featured since its only been out for 6 months at that point. I think we need to stop thinking in yearly updates and instead think of them in 6-month long updates.

So basically, at the start and during any given season the previous season gear will still be featured. Outside of this first season, that means we will always have at least two seasons worth of gear that is featured. I think that would be more than enough.

8

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

Or they could just do away with the system entirely and nothing of value would be lost. The system serves no functional purpose other than to entice people to buy the latest year of content. Stop defending these trash halfbaked systems

4

u/Atlas_Wade 1d ago

Let’s be honest: Destiny, like any MMO, lives or dies on sustained engagement. Without a chase, players stop logging in—and Bungie was already bleeding players under the old system; the numbers clearly show it. Clearly, the previous model wasn’t retaining veterans or attracting new blood.

Hipfiring the solution to removing featured gear might feel good in the short term, but it guts one of the few mechanical incentives, keeping the "new chase" feeling alive. Every major MMO—WoW, FFXIV, Guild Wars 2—uses stat bumps, catch-up mechanics, or time-limited bonuses to drive engagement. Featured gear is Destiny’s version of that treadmill. They could have taken the "proven" way to success from other MMOs and just sunset all of our gear (making it completely unusable in new high end content) and pressed the chase even harder on all new gear. But Bungo chose to keep older gear relevant. This system isn't "trash". It's a compromise to sunsetting our gear entirely. A good halfway; I think that many would agree with after looking at some other options.

The DR and weapon bonuses aren’t game-breaking (reducing weapon dmg further on the next expansion to 5%), but those bonuses are enough to nudge players into fresh content without invalidating old gear. If everything stayed perpetually equal, the game would stagnate around a handful of “best loadouts.” This way, Destiny avoids full-on sunsetting while still giving people a reason to log in, experiment, and progress.

3

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

The meta is established within weeks of an expansion launch/season start...

Funny thing is, people will chase the "good" guns no matter if the feature system exists or not. For instance, without the feature system people would still be chasing Mint Retrograde rolls. Or the Solstice weapons. Or the raid Crossbow. Good weapons are good weapons and people will chase them with or without the featured system, like they did for years before EoF came in with Bungies latest idea of how to get people to buy the newest content

1

u/Atlas_Wade 1d ago edited 1d ago

You’re right that many players chase the best rolls and the new raid exotics—Mint Retrograde, Solstice weapons, whatever. That’s the meta loop, and it’s existed forever. But the featured system isn’t trying to replace that loop; it’s an additional layer. The weapon/armor bonuses ensure that even if the meta stagnates quickly, there’s still a broader incentive for players to engage with seasonal and expansion content over time.

Before EoF, Bungie leaned entirely on the meta chase, and as we saw, player retention kept sliding. The featured bonuses aren’t about creating a new “best weapon,” they’re about keeping all gear in rotation relevant, so the game doesn’t calcify around a small handful of “must-use” items. Without that system, the meta stabilizes in two weeks and then most players disengage until the next DLC.

So it’s not a matter of either/or. People will always chase good guns, yes—but featured gear keeps the treadmill moving after the initial meta frenzy burns out.

Added: Also, this may or may not help the conversation, but in the spirit of "working with what we have" in the game right now... What if, as an enhancement to the Featured Gear system, we could earn a new resource from raids/dungeons to “empower” older weapons/armor into "featured status" for a season? New raids/dungeons could guarantee drops of this resource, while older ones only provide a chance to drop it. That way, players can empower non-seasonal gear, and endgame content feels more rewarding through resource gathering (adding desire and population for these activities).

I don't know. Being an MMO, the featured benefits don't bother me. But, I don't see how this couldn't be molded in a way that works for both sides of the aisle.

Edited: Formatting and added potential enhancement to the featured pool mechanics.

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u/Senor_flash 1d ago

If Bungie gets better at making cooler and more effective gear, players will sunset their own shit without them having to twist players arms.

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u/killer6088 1d ago

Man, the Destiny community really like to say that the 10% extra damage is a must have and you can't complete anything without it.

2

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

It's the "meta" mindset. Majority of players will inevitably fall victim to it unfortunately. Or the ever present "bigger number better" mindset. 🤷‍♂️ systems like the featured system don't help tho and only worsen the issue.

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u/gteriatarka 1d ago

Every major MMO—WoW, FFXIV, Guild Wars 2—uses stat bumps, catch-up mechanics, or time-limited bonuses to drive engagement.

this is the part that makes me believe people are just bitching to bitch. As a long time former FFXIV player, when an expansion drops, all your old shit is barely good enough to run the dungeons to get the new gear. That's kinda like, what an MMO is.

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u/killer6088 2d ago edited 2d ago

You do NOT do 10% less damage. You only do 10% less damage if you had a tier 5 gear piece. Most people only have Tier 3/4 maybe. Thats 6-8% less damage.

Also, these points are moot since this is all changing Tuesday. Its dropping to only 5% damage increase. This happens in Renegades.

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u/bobert1201 2d ago

Also, these points are moot since this is all changing Tuesday. Its dropping to only 5% damage increase.

That change is actually scheduled for the renegades release in december.

2

u/killer6088 2d ago

My bad, I miss read that one. Either way. Its getting changed.

-1

u/Packet_Sniffer_ 1d ago

Nah. This is bullshit. There is zero reason to not be using new armour. So you have at minimum 4 new pieces no matter what. I play slide lock through portal activities.

I am using Mountaintop, Eager Edge sword(old one), and Solipsism as old gear. I have a single featured weapon equipped. And I get A rank EASILY in GM at only -10. You people are such liars. It’s insanity.

1

u/Mongfaffy 1d ago

Only reason is illegal super/weapons armor which only matters in low man’s or contest/maybe 5 feat raids

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u/EKmars Omnivores Always Eat Well 2d ago

Honestly 10% is actually pretty huge. As far as I can tell it's multiplicative. In a raid that's like having another half of a dude. It's a free surge mod without needing a slot or orb.

3

u/Mashamazzi 2d ago

Do you mean like having 9 players (extra half per person) or do you mean like having 6.5 (extra half if the whole team is in new gear)?

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u/EKmars Omnivores Always Eat Well 2d ago

6.6 technically. Like on top of all of your normal buffs, I think it's multiplicative. Multiplicative damage bonuses are really good.

So like you have your person 1 x 1.22 (surges) x 1.25 (well) x 1.3 (weaken with tractor or tether) = 1.98 base damage if I did that right.

But if you add another 10% that's 2.18 your normal damage. In fact, if you use a 15% debuff (lower build cost, maybe just a smoke bomb on a hunter) but featured weapons you have 1.92 damage, very nearly the bonus of using a tractor cannon, sacrificing a heavy.

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u/Trash-redditapp-acct 2d ago

That 10% though makes a big difference in severely under level content. Take the stupid healing banes for example. Sometimes you end dumping 2-3 mags in a single enemy. Then addon they have a different elemental shield.. you’re looking at 4-5 mags sometimes with legendary non featured gear. Feels horrendous!

-2

u/killer6088 2d ago

Ok, then don't pick that modifier. Like you do get to pick which ones get put on.

1

u/Trash-redditapp-acct 2d ago

Believe it or not people don’t just want to play solo ops with the easiest modifiers bro

-1

u/killer6088 2d ago

Ok, they you deal with said modifier. Its a self-inflicted issue. Its not Bungie's fault you picked an annoying modifier.

3

u/SloggyBiscuit 2d ago

You get less score in customize vs Quickplay where you can't choose.

2

u/killer6088 1d ago

No you don't. You get more score in custom since you can put on higher modifiers if you want,

4

u/im_ban_evading_lmao 1d ago

Bungie isn't gonna hire you bro. It's okay.

3

u/killer6088 1d ago

What does that have to do with the other guy being wrong?

1

u/EffingMajestic 1d ago

Bro: “I don’t like this” Killer6088: “well you’re fuckin wrong”

4

u/killer6088 2d ago

Did you even try using old gear or are you just making assumptions about how it works from looking through this sub? Because I can fully guarantee you that you do NOT need to put on -50 worth of modifiers to get Rank A even with a full set of old gear. The multiplier lose is way less than you think.

3

u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

I'd assume they're not using modifiers like Brawn and No Starting Ammo if they need to go up to -50.

That said, the difference between 7/8 and 8/8 featured gear is enough to require an additional -10 power modifier. With Touche, it will be at minimum another -10, possibly -20.

So in Ash and Iron, all else being equal, a featured gear loadout will hit A floating between -10 and -30, depending on the power bracket you are in, while a loadout that uses a single piece of non-featured gear will float between -30 and -50.

0

u/killer6088 1d ago edited 1d ago

That said, the difference between 7/8 and 8/8 featured gear is enough to require an additional -10 power modifier.

Weird, I have been running 7/8 or 6/8 featured gear pieces and continue to get Rank A without ever needing to add another modifier. So maybe we are just playing different things or something. So your statement here is just plain wrong. I can go swap out a piece of gear right now at 395 and not drop Rank.

EDIT: Wonderful people in this community. Love how everyone just jumps to blocking once you start having a discussion about something they don't want to hear

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u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

Damn, it's almost like I'm talking about the difference of 8/8 to 7/8 and not 7/8 to 6/8.

At the 400 - 420 tier of GM, modifiers to hit A with 8/8 can be Brawn, No Starting Ammo, Locked Loadouts, Bane -20, and a -10 power.

With 7/8, this same combination hits B+.

So maybe we are just playing different things or something.

Sounds like it bub.

So your statement here is just plain wrong.

Nice projection.

Also cute that you'd ignore Touche, but since you already know you're wrong, I'm not surprised.

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u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

Weird edit my dude

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u/killer6088 1d ago

Nice, almost like all your posts read as deleted a min ago. But whatever man. Good to see you learned.

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u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

It's one way to derail a convo for sure. Did you want to actually address any of the points I made or how the Touche modifier will absolutely impose a score penalty on non-featured gear?

4

u/Packet_Sniffer_ 1d ago

They’re just making shit up. With 5/8 pieces of new gear I get A rank in GM at -10.

But it’s pretty typical for this sub to just make shit up these days and then get pissed off about their own fantasy.

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u/SpuffDawg 2d ago

The irony is Bungie nerfs stuff based off popularity sometimes since they use spreadsheets instead of brains. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a "We're pulling Starfire protocol back a little bit to get other exotics to shine."

1

u/smilesbuckett 1d ago

I think there need to be more options for adding modifiers to increase difficulty without increasing enemy power. I think some of the combatant mods shouldn’t add any enemy power because they’re already making the game harder anyway.

1

u/Flaming_Pepperoni 1d ago

Seriously. I’ve been playing Titan mostly because none of the warlock builds I love to play are featured. I have always loved solar titan tho. And believe me, I absolutely would prefer not to be playing Phoenix cradle with Tommy’s but it’s the easiest way I’ve found to use all new gear and have a great pretty decent solar build. Although I will say, when my teammates actually use my sunspots instead of running around panicking until they die (looking at you hunters) it’s kinda fun

1

u/TheAwesomeMan123 Gambit Prime // There can only be one! 1d ago

Power level boosting to offset the score dip is fine mostly what I hate is the Avant Garde modifier locking me out of content for using my preferred build. That’s annoying. One is a choice which I offset the other is a decision made for me.

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u/Remarkable_Card7350 5h ago

Correct. My exact issue.

0

u/PsychoticDust 2d ago edited 1d ago

I'm a Warlock for life (have been since the Alpha for D1) and I'm jumping between a prismatic stormsurge build and voidlock hand held supernova build. Both use featured gear. I'm genuinely having a great time, which I know this sub doesn't like to hear.

Edit: @Downvotes: You people are genuinely very sad. If someone enjoying the game bothers you so much, then why are you even here? Weird, addict behaviour.

1

u/im_ban_evading_lmao 1d ago

Destiny addicts defend Bungie no matter what.

When the false bans were happening people were saying "sucks to be you, maybe don't run other programs while playing"

When 'phalanxed' was common, people were defending it like "skill issue, don't get close to them then"

When sunsetting was a thing I genuinely heard people say to" just stop playing, this game isn't for you"

1

u/Packet_Sniffer_ 1d ago

And this sub is filled with liars and people upvoting liars. The parent comment is completely falsified bullshit.

0

u/cslawrence3333 2d ago

I never worry about using featured gear or not bechase I like the challenge anyway, that part has been refreshing.

With that said, the whole new gear thing is completely idiotic and disrespectful honestly. It feels like emotionally blackmailing us to farm for the new shit. Bungie, I was already gonna farm for all this stuff, but the way youre acting about it makes me not want to lol.

Just comes off like they dont trust their own product, so they need to bait us.

1

u/Rude_Papaya_1386 1d ago

Honestly the only reason I only use the "new gear" is because i love having 4 stats at 100 that and I love the new rocket pulse it just destroys everything (dont tell bungie I said that they would just nerf it lmao) the ONLY problem i have is that you need it to get a higher score where in the past you just had to play to get gear and stuff (except for gms where score did matter to guarante the adapt drop) but honestly they should have just stuck with the old tier system and improved on it (enhanced weapons could get to tier 3) that and the rarity system is a soft tier system

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u/Extra-Autism 2d ago

Soft sunsetting. They just want to sunset but they can call it that. They are banking on keeping players engaged through a grind to re unlock stuff rather than add new and interesting things to grind for.

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u/Clickbait93 Up the Grenade Munchers! 2d ago

You don't need featured gear for it, T3 and above armor is way better than anything you could have kept from before, for example.

What they want is for you to regrind weapons and armor every year. Can't have you running around in 3 years from now still wearing that T5 Techsec armor you got now, doesn't matter how much it complements your build nor the fact that Bungie will probably not introduce anything that synergises better with Kinetic Weapons so if you wanna use them, tough luck.

It's just a lazy way to get people to switch it up, completely ignoring the fact that if they come up with new and interesting stuff players will organically try them out. But telling people "No if you use that you will make life much harder for yourself" is much easier and doesn't necessarily need them to come up with anything new.

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u/General_PATT0N 2d ago

Yep. Forcing the customer to do something that they don't enjoy. Horrible business acumen.

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u/RedGecko18 2d ago

What's really happening is they're just sunsetting my playtime and money input.

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u/Angelous_Mortis 2d ago

I've played maybe 5hrs since Edge of Fate dropped and that's it.  Definitely didn't pay off.

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u/Extra-Autism 2d ago

Their gamble does not seem to be paying off…

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u/Pman1324 2d ago

They threw a Gunpowder Gamble and it blew up in their face

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u/Rude_Papaya_1386 1d ago

Ahhhh the good ol times lmao

2

u/ItalianDragon Heroes never die ! 1d ago

Yup. I bet they ran sone math and expected the overwhelming majority to put up with the new system and that they'd be golden. In truth they were extremely wrong and completely overplayed their hand, which just about wrecked the game.

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u/zoompooky 2d ago

I've turned the tables, and I've sunset Bungie!

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u/Cat_with_pew-pew_gun 2d ago

The wildest part is that they still made new and interesting stuff to grind for! The only item that I want to replace solely for the “new” tag is my rocket sidearm. And if doesn’t look like that’s actually going to happen. I’m just gonna eat the consequences on that one.

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u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

They really didn't though. Nothing in EoF is new or interesting. Rocket Pulse? We already had rocket sidearm. EoF innovated nothing at all

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u/Cat_with_pew-pew_gun 1d ago

I meant the normal kind Which is like 3-4 weapons a season. We got way more than that with two new amazing auto rifles, an smg, a fun new origin trait, an amazing solar perk, armor set bonuses, and two new weapon types. Apart from my heavy slot all the new weapons I’m using are ones I’d be using regardless of the new tag system.

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u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

Which just proves the featured system isn't needed in order to get people to use new gear

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u/Cat_with_pew-pew_gun 1d ago

Exactly my point. The new gear system is trying to solve a problem that isn’t even there. There are plenty of things I like about edge of fate but the new gear system has got to go.

I’m fine with the modifier though. As long as it isn’t overused it’s a fun build challenge from time to time.

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u/bobert1201 2d ago

"And performed better overall"

Power creep. That's power creep. That's the reason why legendary forsaken gear was garbage tier long before edge of fate released. I actually like the idea of giving new weapons a flat damage boost for a limited time so that bungie doesn't have to do as much traditional power creep. With the current damage/DR boosts for new gear, bungie can incentives new gear while lessening the power difference among older gear. Once edge of fate and renegades are both no longer featured, this system should lead to the gear from those expansions being much closer in power than gear from, say, forsaken and shadow keep.

Now, the score multiplier needs to go. The damage/DR is already incentive enough. We don't need a penalty attached to old gear, especially ones as nebulous and difficult to grasp as the score multiplier. Does anybody actually know the mathematical affect featured gear has on the score multiplier? I've heard a few different numbers (one time each), but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on it, which means the system is too obtuse.

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u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

Yes but there's not enough new gear to fill every existing build and every player loadout preference. They will need to release thousands of new items every season if they stick to keeping this new gear system

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u/bobert1201 2d ago

That's why the score modifier needs to go. If a piece of old gear synergizes really well with a certain build, then that synergy should be worth more than a 10% damage boost. If it's not, then it wasn't a very good synergy in the first place. The main problem is the obtuse nature of the score multiplier making it almost impossible to decide whether a piece of old gear is worth it.

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u/0rganicMach1ne 2d ago

One of the worst ideas they’ve ever had.

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u/Alhazreddit 2d ago

One of the worst ideas… so far

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u/0rganicMach1ne 2d ago

Bungie thinks it’s a competition.

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u/Mashamazzi 2d ago

It’s a competition to under-deliver

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u/Pman1324 2d ago

Who's their competition? No other looter shooters are trying to pull the same nonsense.

0

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

Thats cuz other looter shooters care about their game, bungie doesn't. They only care about destiny as a way to fund Marathon, their real passion project

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u/Pman1324 1d ago

Passion is a strong word to describe a game with lackluster gameplay, lacking genre defining features, and stolen art.

0

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

Yet it IS their passion project. They're convinced it'll be a hit and that they're gonna change the Extraction Shooter genre with this abysmal game. They put all their eggs in the Marathon basket

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u/Pman1324 1d ago

They're passionately bad at it

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u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

On that matter, you are most certainly correct

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u/Solruptor 2d ago

Its clear that the New Gear system was their attempt at soft sunsetting. All your previous gear can be used, but if you want to earn the highest score, you have to use the new gear. Like many things Bungie does, the idea is somewhat sound but the implementation was as subtle as a kick to the nuts.

I think even Bungie knows this system isn't great as they're already nerfing the New Gear bonus down to 5% extra damage for weapons & 10% DR for armour. Essentially negligible bonuses. To me, this indicates that they're most likely going to remove the New Gear system by the time the next year of content rolls around, with the nerf acting as a stop-gap.

It reminds me of when the Go Fast update dropped in Y1, which jacked up Power Ammo spawns in PvP so Shotguns, Snipers & Fusions had similar uptime to Specials back in D1. A temporary measure whilst the real fix is implemented later down the road.

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u/TheLordYuppa 2d ago

At the very least, no exotic gear or weapons should be excluded.

1

u/iHeisenburger randal is the darkness 1d ago

don't worry, everything will get fixed at the end of the DLC, as usual, then everybody will praise bungie, as usual

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u/TriscuitCracker Hunter 2d ago

Yep, just drop the whole thing and make any gear viable, legendary and Exotic. The whole limited to New Gear thing on like 5% of your vault is absurd.

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u/-L3monP3pp3r 2d ago

I was actually really against the whole thing before the season launched but I've been using non-featured weapons and exotics and getting my A score without hassle. Avant Guard also came up way less than I was worried it would, didn't mind too much putting together an avant guard loadout for the Conquests when I was unlocking them

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u/Mayaparisatya 2d ago

Locked Loadout is nerfed in Ash and Iron, and there will be a new modifier to replace it that combines Locked Loadout and Avant Garde.

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u/Mataric 2d ago

I completely agree, however that may change with ash and iron as they are changing the locked loadout (with the massive score bonus) to be locked loadout + avant guarde together.

As it stands, I think it's balanced fine. If the requirements for score change so that it's exponentially harder to get A rank without fully new gear, then that does kinda suck.

1

u/-L3monP3pp3r 2d ago

We'll have to play it by ear I suppose. I think if I'm remembering, locked loadout will still exist alone, but just give less XP. I assume (hope?) A will still be possible without Avant guard and featured gear, but it might be tough.

I think if anything, the thing I might change would be the intrinsic new gear benefits to score multiplier

2

u/Mataric 2d ago edited 2d ago

They've said that it will be rolled into one. Locked loadout is no longer available. They also said that the issue they had with it WAS the amount of bonus it gave. I'm unsure whether it'll still be the same total once they pair it with Avant, but hopefully it will.

I'd agree there. I think the way they've done score benefits here is absolutely scummy. If you buy the battlepass, you get a score bonus, which is essentially pay to win as it allows for people to offset the downsides of wearing non-new gear and equip whatever old exotic is overperforming (or just having fun with the game, ya know?), while still achieving the same score as someone who wears all new gear but hasn't paid for the battlepass.

I'm absolutely fine with the bonus 10% damage. I think that's a good way to promote players to use their non-sunset new gear - but I do not agree with the score at all.

EDIT: correction - Locked Loadout will still exist, but the score it grants will be massively lessened. Touche (the new Avant Guarde + Locked loadout) modifier will grant similar score now as Locked Loadout used to.

2

u/-L3monP3pp3r 2d ago

They've said that it will be rolled into one. Locked loadout is no longer available

I just checked the Twid, and it says, "We are bringing Locked Loadout back down to where we originally imagined it and are opening up some design space for some new Loadout modifiers.

  • We are adding a new Loadout Player stake called Touche’ which combines Locked Loadout and Avant Garde restrictions, as well as the scoring for both."

Unless I'm misreading that, I think locked loadout is still its own option, but will give less XP. They are adding Touche’, but locked loadout will still be there, I believe

3

u/Mataric 2d ago

Ah yes, okay I see where I went wrong with my memory here. You're right.

What I saw was a video released from bungie and it mentioned the issues with Locked Loadout, Avant Guarde and the new Touche they were adding.

They aren't outright removing locked loadout, but they are massively reducing the score bonus locked loadout grants, and moving that into Touche.

Sorry for the misrepresentation - When watching, I think I realised it likely wouldn't be worth running LL anymore, and their intent was that Touche would be the new 'go to' for players.

1

u/-L3monP3pp3r 2d ago

Yeah definitely, I'm thinking locked loadout is going from four lil green arrows down to two at the max. They're definitely hoping for Touche’ to be the new go-to. This conversation is making me think I might actually have to play some Heavy Metal to get that solar Eager Edge sword in case I have to replace my beloved Slammer for Touche’.

Damn their tactics are kinda working.

11

u/HazardousSkald 2d ago

“Remember Forsaken? Everybody and their mom were farming for the new armors and guns and stuff outside of maybe a couple of old exotics. You know why? Because the new stuff was fun to play with and performed better overall (like guns got an extra perk and new cool archetypes, etc.).

Remember the Witch Queen? The same thing. Everybody was farming for the new stuff.”

Powercreep. You’re describing powercreep. We sought that loot because it was outright better than prior gear, effectively sunsetting prior gear. Forsaken, loot was sought because random rolled gear was outright better than locked rolls. WQ brought enhanced perks and origin perks, outright better versions than any prior gun of the same perk combos. 

You can only hit this button so many times. Bungie cannot “revolutionize” guns into infinity. Because weapons have no intrinsic gear cap like other MMO’s do, your 5 year old guns are just as good as your 2 month old guns. So the only differentiator is perks. 

The more gear you have, the less extrinsic motivation you have to pursue more gear. The chance of it becoming a meaningful part of your arsenal diminishes with each new addition. Genuinely, look back to TFS’s year and see the posts talking about how the new weapons are bad or etc - and those weapons are generally better than the vast majority of Destiny’s history of guns, but that sentiment applies because everyone has years of stocked godrolls with enhanced perks. 

I’m not saying the current system is working. But there is a reason the answer is not “Just make strong guns like you did in WQ”. The game needs extrinsic motivation. 

10

u/Naive-Archer-9223 2d ago

Power creep is part of the game though. You can't avoid power creep in these types of games. 

If you want people playing and engaged and interested in new content there needs to be something in it for them. This tends to be weapons and maybe armour.

There's no use putting a Solar SMG in the new content if its the same as the solar SMG you already have.

They've managed so far with things like rocket sidearms and healing autos, they're new. But eventually there needs to be something stronger than what you have. Especially with how grindy it can get. 

And especially double when pepple defend this system with statements like "You don't need new gear" okay so I also don't need to grind for 30 hours for an SMG that's .5% better than the one I have.

3

u/HazardousSkald 2d ago

Again, not going to defend the current system. And your right in that so long that new perks are coming out power creep will inch forward. That is not a reason to “turn the faucet up” and give the game over to powercreep. 

Novelty alone does not drive people to pursue gear. The game went through layers of special GL meta -> wave frame GL meta -> AoE GL meta. Do you know what new GL people didn’t care about? Double-shot GL’s. Cool addition - no one cared. Same with Glaives. Novelty helps but it isn’t automatic. 

I agree, new content needs to be engaging and extrinsically motivating. Thus, the game cannot be installing “kill 95% of enemies immediately buttons” just because last expansion introduced the “kill 90% of enemies immediately buttons”. That is going to hit a criticality very fast. The game needs to inch forward so that it’s still meaningful to play while keeping gear desirable. 

The ideal mixture is a balance of novelty and a sustainable addition of power that does not constrain future possibilities to constantly 1-upping itself. We already have an arsenal of solar handcannons - how do we make the next one worth pursuing? Because if we just give the game over to powercreep, why not just slap “kills cause ignitions” on it and call it a day? As you say, that impulse that “why should someone pursue another version of a same-element weapon” Is the chief problem. If we want the game to run year over year with no sunsetting, and the game shouldn’t just stop making handcannons because it’s been making them for 8 years, then how do we make new handcannons desirable? How do we make new content meaningful when we added the “kills cause ignitions” handcannons 5 years ago and now have to design the game around that kind of power? 

1

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

>because everyone has years of stocked godrolls with enhanced perks

Then add another row of perks. Then add another one. Then add another level of enhanced perks. Here, 3 years of making players pursue the new gear without any artificially forced mechanics. But when they do that, they should ensure there's content to accommodate this gear, not some "now you're artificially -50 light levels lower just because you joined activity x"

3

u/HazardousSkald 2d ago

Which is a valid proposition, sure. I think that’s a valid position so long that people are willing to consider/accept any pros and cons that come with it. For example, if we’re adding more perk columns to guns that’s going to bloom the power of legendary weapons and make classic content cakewalks, or the feeling that “why should I grind for new guns when they’re just going to add a new column in a year and now my hard earned gear can’t keep up”. Not to say that it’s not the right idea, but that there are pros and cons to everything. 

But my main point is that there is a real problem to be solved in making new gear desirable. It can’t be just ignored by doing no adjustments to the core game. 

2

u/killersinarhur 2d ago

Once you have an armor set Bungie has not figured out a way to entice people to keep chasing armor. New gear is supposed to be that but this game deprecates things so fast it's almost certainly not landing the way they intended

1

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

Let me think for Bungie: add armor sets with 5 slots and 12 energy while 1 of the slots being a free energy cost. And bam, everybody farms for the new armor. Also having actually valuable perks like every item increases damage and defense by 10% including pvp will also help.

2

u/ShooterMcGavin1007 2d ago

Exotics being outside of any armor/weapons system should be the bare minimum

3

u/Wonderful-Ad-4484 2d ago

Yeah, with the new gear system, the set bonuses, the power/level changes, the new portal system and solo ops, and the fact we finished the light and darkness saga and have now moved on (alongside the more change plans coming) it really feels like they should have just made a D3 at this point

1

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

Will never happen. Bungie hates making sequels and only ever makes them under duress when contractually obligated. Marathon is their passion project now, not destiny

2

u/Wonderful-Ad-4484 1d ago

Still, it feels like they're actively being twats now. They removed the first 2 years of D2, are actively changing how a ton of stuff works, and the main chapter of the story they had planned is over. Would have been the best time to do D3

1

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

I'm with ya. It's sad what they've turned this once great game into. And now they've missed their window of opportunity. They've lost too much good faith from the community and laid off too many people for a d3 to ever happen or be amazing quality if it did happen 😔

3

u/jkichigo 2d ago

It’s just a lazy way to incentivize getting new gear, in a game that already has curated metas.

2

u/TheFonz2244 2d ago

I can't believe they didn't make the exotic class items featured. That alone makes dozens of builds unusable in conquest which is hilariously inept and sad decision making by Bungo. 

2

u/Divine_Despair 2d ago

All Exotics should be eligible including the class items. 

2

u/D2_BranBean 2d ago

Honestly, we've got to keep bringing this dumb bs up to hopefully beat it into Bungies thick ass clown shaped head

1

u/Brave-Combination793 2d ago

My biggest issue is the new gear for the most part just isnt as exciting to use

Like give me a reason to use something other than my crafted doom of chelchis or my crafted nullify

Unwavering duty is fun cause its perk options are fun to to use so i have no problem using it above song of ir yut or commemeration

But my chelchis has firefly and dragonfly and nullify has firefly and incandescent so trying to find stuff thats more fun to use isnt possible

1

u/GlobalEngineering497 2d ago

500,000,000,000% agree 👍

1

u/Alternative-Swim-953 2d ago

Trying something new would be crazy tbh

1

u/iAMbatman77 2d ago

We hear you’re unhappy with the new system so we’ve decided the Avant Garde modifier will be implemented as a permanent modifier across all activities. We know we missed the mark and aim to improve the player experience while making room for new gear we hope you will find exciting!” - PlayStation Studios (Formerly Bungie)

1

u/heptyne 2d ago

The more annoying part is if I want to make a new build I need like 30k of the seasonal resources, if not more, to infuse the items I need to make the build. That's assuming most of the armor is already on light.

1

u/zoompooky 2d ago

How else will they interest you in running the same content you've run for years with the same BiS gear you've run for years?

1

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

By making new content and updating the old one? So everything is relevant. And return infinite artifact leveling, so if they decide to lower my power -50, I should be able to grind to 500 instead of 450 to compensate

1

u/zoompooky 1d ago

The purpose of "new gear" is to force you to grind new stuff. If they let you continue to use your old stuff, you wouldn't use the new stuff.

Granted, they could just powercreep all the new stuff, like shotgun pistols and rocket pulse rifles... oh wait

1

u/vforvontol 1d ago

no, the problem isn’t the new gear. the problem is anything before EoF outside of the portal doesn’t drop the new tiered system.

1

u/elguerosinfe 1d ago

Open up all the exotics and exotic class items. Problem solved.

1

u/Ai_D4ddYM4N_12496 1d ago

After eleven years of constant playing of this game, ash and iron is the first dlc I will not be hitting “at first launch” if ever. I have been loyal to most of its bullshit and kept playing but EOF has whooped me to the point of not being worth it. #DestinyTheDoosh….

1

u/N7Poprdog 1d ago

"Play your way" wait not like that!

1

u/UpsetEggplant3724 1d ago

Bungie is a professional at fumbling the ball every update.

1

u/Deagballs 1d ago

I'm loving Cutting Edge PvP. Forced me to start using new guns, have fallen in love with quite a few, and I'm using exorcism I never would have before and am having a lot of fun playing the game differently then I have in the past.

1

u/VersaSty7e 1d ago

That wasn’t why with forsaken

Also forsaken will never happen again

So stop

Also stop powercreep thx

1

u/Riablo01 1d ago

Restrictive is an understatement. Grind to unlock the privilege of grinding to obtain new gear that has to be used in specific configurations because of champions and avante garde.

There are so many conditions to the new system, it feels like a legal system.

1

u/BTog 1d ago

You can do it your own way, if it's done just how I say.

~ James Hetfield

~ and Bungie

1

u/GreenAnder Things Bad 1d ago

It’s the exotic armor restrictions that piss me off. Can’t run any of the exotic class items.

1

u/ilBolas 1d ago

Woah woah woah buddy, careful there, we don't want to have players actually be able to choose what they use for activities now do we? That'd be insanity. Let's make more mods based around Avant Garde instead.

1

u/SSB_Meta4 22h ago

Remember Forsaken?

I do. I remember that they had the help of two extra studios. Now that they are solo you can't really expect that anymore. Maybe one day Sony will have Naughty Dog and Insomniac help make Destiny content.

1

u/Damagecontrol86 21h ago

Ya it’s a shit system that nobody asked for and it needs to just be removed asap. They already nerf anything and everything that provides a shred of relief to harder content so the least they can fucking do is not restrict us to new/featured gear.

1

u/Zardous666 7h ago

The game is about using ANYTHING to make a build, it's insanely stupid locking people out of running what they want or attaching strings with new gear rubbish system

1

u/Thee_White_Wolf5211 2d ago

I like the new gear system but I do think its to much. The to much is the tiered system tied to the artifact (which they are fixing in renagades) and theres only some exotics are featured. Every new weapon should get the maximum benefit from the artifact and all exotics should be featured. There exotic. But we are almost there. Just not quite there yet. Same with the power grind. Almost there but not quite yet.

1

u/ethaxton 2d ago

New gear is kinda fine once you get to t4 because the stats are objectively better. But the exotic restricting is still incredibly lame.

-4

u/doomsoul909 2d ago

Me when the optional difficulty modifier optionally increases difficulty in a creative way beyond “enemy number go up”

-9

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

Adding timers and mutators is the cheapest artificial way known to man to ramp up the difficulty

7

u/UltraLegoGamer 1d ago

Timers are artificial difficulty, banes are artificial difficulty, power deltas are artificial difficulty, new difficult enemies are artificial difficulty, gear restrictions are artificial difficulty, Jesus fuck what isn't artificial difficulty???

-8

u/Skiffy10 2d ago

I run getaway artists all the time and im fine with getting A scores but yea keep yelling how you are unable to use certain stuff.

7

u/FormerChemist7889 2d ago

Why are rewards getting punished/activity getting artificially more difficult to keep same reward level, for simply equipping a build of your choice? That’s completely counterintuitive game design in a mmo/looter shooter or whatever the fuck bungie wants to call it nowadays. We aren’t talking about having to use a different legendary gun with maybe only one perk to synergize or old armor that may be now powercrept/outdated. Their system includes only select exotics which are very often a main/the main centerpiece to a build.

-3

u/Skiffy10 2d ago

i really think and many others are overreacting to how much you get punished. I’ve been running new legendary weapons/armour and it’s usually just one or two pieces of my exotics that aren’t new gear and i’m still fine getting A scores.

2

u/Mayaparisatya 2d ago

Soon you will have to use full new gear because Locked Loadout is getting nerfed in Ash and Iron, and there will be a new modifier that combines Locked Loadout and Avant Garde.

-2

u/sundalius Bungie's Strongest Soldier 2d ago

Because there is a bonus (lower delta) for new gear, but the score is balanced around GM being as -40. You know, like GMs have always been? -40 now is the same as -20 last season, which is where you had to be to get adepts, the equivalent of old A+ loot.

4

u/EKmars Omnivores Always Eat Well 2d ago

So it doesn't matter and should be removed then.

-16

u/SCPF2112 2d ago

Yeah... adjusting isn't hard. People will whine about anything here.

2

u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

This is just people gradually understanding the implications of the changes that are about to hit.

Currently, you can run a 7/8 featured gear loadout with the same modifiers as a 8/8 featured loadout and usually have the time bonus make up the difference in solo ops. In pinnacle ops, it's an extra -10 modifier though.

On Tuesday, Touche gets added, which will put a 7/8 loadout at an additional -10 to -20 power deficit compared to an 8/8 loadout. That's a severe nerf to all non-featured gear.

-3

u/Objective_One_1702 2d ago

What gear from EoF and this season doesn't have the new gear bonus?

Never mind anything else you've said on this post but like, all the new gear from this release cycle IS featured gear and does work with the Avant Garde and the portal bonus modifier, doesn't it?

6

u/KitsouraKitsu 2d ago

I think he means "new" as in new drops not gear that got released this update, so like getting a chest plate to drop from Last Wish would be a "new" piece

-3

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

Yes. Any gear dropped this expansion should be considered new even if it was released 8 something years ago in red war. The logic is that I'm playing the new expansion, I'm getting new drops so they're literally and technically new

1

u/KitsouraKitsu 1d ago

Yeah I quit after the update, they basically sunset 90% of the content in the game and added a 100+ hour grind for no reason

-7

u/AnimaLEquinoX 2d ago

I made a post covering this yesterday, but you can still play with whatever gear you want and be fine in the portal. A GM solo op will get you a B+ score using 0 new gear with all the player stakes modifiers and one minor threat active.

I'd also say the new gear is fun to play. People posting builds they're able to make with the new armor or calling out when Mint Retrograde is the focus pinnacle ops reward to go farm it.

All the gear that's dropping from EoF is marked as new gear too, so I'm not sure what your point is there.

4

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

That's another issue, actually. They should remove this scoring thing affecting drops, and only leave it as a dick-measuring cosmetic feature. You complete an activity - you get your loot. It should not be affected by any artificial number.

-2

u/AnimaLEquinoX 1d ago

Hard disagree with that. Score dictating the reward actually gives a reason to try and it's an easy way to measure how you do. Removing scoring would make the whole system pointless.

If they didn't have levels tied to rewards then everything would just be set power deltas, making mythic difficulty the only way to get T5 gear, which everyone would hate because it would be way more difficult.

1

u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

If I recall correctly, your post also ignored the upcoming Touche modifier and its implications with scoring. 

1

u/killer6088 1d ago

And you are ignoring all the upcoming changes to scoring overall that makes it easier to get Rank A.

1

u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

The changes taking place exclusively in Fireteam ops? Yes. I'm ignoring those because Fireteam ops will still have a bad reward/hour ratio compared to Solo and Pinnacle.

1

u/killer6088 1d ago

You are missing some

  • Several Fireteam Ops activities will have an increase in the number of drops.
  • Activity timers have been rebalanced across the board.
  • Players will have a chance for a Prime Engram drop per Portal Activity completion reward.
  • The Portal Timer bonus earned will grant 5% minimum score.
  • Your account's highest Power will be used for reward score.

etc...

-1

u/AnimaLEquinoX 1d ago

I didn't include Touche because I have no way of checking its impact on scoring right now. From what that TWID said was that it would combine Avant Garde and Locked Loadout, as well as the scoring of both. If you can run an activity with Avant Garde then you're already using all featured gear.

My post was specifically about how using non featured gear impacts scoring.

1

u/TwevOWNED 1d ago

Sure, it's not in the game yet and we don't know it's exact effect.

However, basic intuition would suggest that it would be atleast worth a -10 modifier in terms of score.

You can currently get a B+ without any featured gear. In two days, you will not be able to. That is the problem

0

u/General-Biscuits 2d ago

The main problem is just the Avant Garde modifier.

The featured gear bonus is negligible and getting nerfed further due to complaints. Avant Garde should never have been mandatory on any piece of content, especially not the Conquests which are needed for Guardian rank ups.

If Avant Garde is gone, Featured gear doesn’t mean anything serious and might as well just stay.

1

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

But what about the 10% damage increase. I want it

0

u/Fun-Risk-8784 2d ago

I think the simplicity of the system allows for really focused armour farming and also lets players who perhaps are stuck in a rut like I was to try new loadouts really quickly. I played more PvE this last few weeks than I had in the last year. I have tried way more exotics than before too. So this system is a win in my book.

2

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

You could've tried all those things without this system in place though, you just chose not to before now

1

u/Fun-Risk-8784 1d ago

Kinda true, but getting the correct armour for diffeent builds was harder under the old system and much too time consuming for my casual ass.

1

u/sandwhich_sensei 1d ago

And yet we are missing the rest of the archetypes that would truly open up build options. The archetype system, as is now, is severely flawed

-2

u/TheRealKingTony 1d ago

Yall are making way too big of a deal over something that really only matters in one mode of PVE and one mode of PVP.

The damage bonus/score bonus barely shifts anything.

Some of the top builds this season on all three classes have used Legacy gear.

(Downvote me if you can't handle the truth)

-11

u/gamerlord02 2d ago

You guys say this, and then cry that you don't have enough vault space

-7

u/Davesecurity 2d ago edited 2d ago

Exotics I 100% agree and there is a small chance they might change it for them with Renegades but not much of a chance.

For legendary weapons and armour isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

They want you playing the "new" stuff aka anything they have spent dev time & rescourses putting into the game in the last update.

Unless they incentivise you to farm new gear, you will just use your your old stuff shortening your playtime thus the new stuff having the bonuses.

It isn't going anywhere without a full sunset of older gear.

If anything they are doubling down on it with the Touche modifier that by Wednesday this place will be full of people moaning about it.

Embrace the sunset, nuke your vaults, make new builds, I have and it has made the game less boring, having loot to farm in a looter shooter huh? Who would have thought that would make the game more enjoyable.

-2

u/Verum_Violet 2d ago

Maybe is just breathing room to tweak stuff to work with the new system? I think (hope) that it’s going to be more unique armour and weapons brought in rather than a rotating set, unless it’s been stated otherwise

That said… if that means nerfing everything then making it featured like it’s one and done, then that would suck too.

1

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

Then they will need to release any element and any archetype combination for every gear slot every season. Will they do that? There will have to be like 5-6 new Handguns (those small pistols nobody uses) for the kinetic slot every season. And then multiply it by the number of element-archetype combinations for each slot. Are they ready to release 100-1000+ new guns every season so that each possible combination is available to be "New Gear" ?

1

u/Verum_Violet 2d ago

I meant bringing old stuff up to par (dungeon/raid specific etc) for the future if they bring back older content. I only say this cause it seems like the exotics being made featured have had tweaks. Just wondering if this is a way for items to not be used until they’ve been brought in line with whatever bungie seems to think is appropriate for the sandbox.

I’m not saying that’s a good thing even if it is true, just a thought

1

u/BloodstoneJP 2d ago

Yes. That’s what I’m also suggesting. All gear including old gear that drops during the new at the time expansion should be updated and considered new. Or they could be 2 versions, new and old but both should be considered as new for the formality sake of the new artificial system

-4

u/Joshy41233 2d ago

My turn to Karma farm this tomorrow guys