r/DestinyTheGame • u/Seanshineyouth • 1d ago
Discussion I’m finding champions more annoying and less fun mechanic all the time… mostly bc the kits to deal with them feel limiting
I hate having to switch my finely tuned loadout for champions. I like that a minor tweak might work but there’s too few options to do this without totally wrecking a build. It’s rather annoying.
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u/CloudSlydr 1d ago
I’ve stopped using unstoppable mods. They’re the one that can’t heal themselves so they’re isually killable without anti champ mod.
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u/ThisWaxKindaWaxy 1d ago
Holy Shit you just like me fr just bash your head against the wall and THEY'LL break first.
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u/korisucks20 1d ago
honestly my issue is the seasonal mods that give anti champion tools. the ones now are god awful with 2 over, 2 unstop, and only 1 barrier
like thats ridiculous
therefore this forces me to swap out my mtn top with a pulse to deal with barrier champs, or swap out my coldheart with a legendary so i can use arbalest
however, void and solar mains can easily deal with them by their subclass keywords alone so they have no issue (volatile/radiant)
its extremely case by case and dependent on your setup
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u/APartyInMyPants 1d ago
On the flipside, Mint Retrograde is basically the best weapon in the game right now. And Radiant is insanely easy to proc with a solar primary.
If you’re not concerned about overloads, don’t select the Overload AR/SMG mod, and you’re Ahab Char or Yeartide will be some anti-barrier if you proc Radiant with them.
I don’t even bother with Unstop, because my Eunoia build takes care of Unstops easily with all the ignitions.
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u/throwntosaturn 1d ago
On the flipside, Mint Retrograde is basically the best weapon in the game right now
This is my main problem with the champ mods rn. I don't want EVEN MORE reason to use the best gun in the game. If anything I want champ mods to force me off the obvious best gun in the game.
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u/eddmario Still waiting for /u/Steel_Slayer's left nut 20h ago
Ahab Char can also get the new Burning Ambition perk, which allows it to stun Unstoppables via Ignition.
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u/ImawhaleCR 1d ago
There should just be more options, weapon perks could so easily have champion verbs added. Something like box breathing granting unstoppable when active, and giving a damage boost for stunning, zen moment/dynamic sway giving overload when at full effect, etc. It could be an easy way to bring some life to perks that aren't as meta
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u/eddmario Still waiting for /u/Steel_Slayer's left nut 20h ago
I was thinking certain magazine perks could do it:
- High-Caliber Rounds - Unstoppable
- Armor-Piercing Rounds, Seraph Rounds - Barrier
Not sure which one would be best for Overload champs, unfortunately...
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u/StudentPenguin 21h ago
Is it not Pulses and Scouts that are Anti-Barrier? It's perfectly fine as is. If you want to fuck yourself over by using Double Special and pay no attention to the Champ mods, that's on you.
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u/engineeeeer7 1d ago
And presumably no new mods with Ash and Iron if the UI is correct. Which is awful
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
I think there is going to be an extra row or column or whatever
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u/engineeeeer7 1d ago
Artifact UI says not for 80ish days
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u/ImTriggered247 1d ago
I believe that’s for the next artifact. We should still be getting another row at the bottom.
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u/engineeeeer7 1d ago
I thought so too but nothing has been previewed and it would get added tomorrow. Comms have been weird though.
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
They’re doing a gameplay reveal tomorrow morning so it may be that it’s revealed then
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u/Necrolance Warlock main for life 1d ago
Not until renegades. We're getting less mods this year than last. Last year we got two extra rows, this year we're only getting one extra row. And the artifact is staying all year.
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u/throwntosaturn 1d ago
Wait is that really true? I had assumed that was a UI bug. We're stuck with this meta for the whole year????
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u/V00D00_BR0 23h ago
No there will be new rows with tomorrows update
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u/Necrolance Warlock main for life 23h ago
No...? Where did you get this information? Because this is 100% false.
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u/V00D00_BR0 22h ago
In the game when you hover over the artifact it says “expires at the end of season reclamation” the artifact is not going to last all year lol there will be a new one with the new season in renegades
the new rows say they unlock with the “major update” which is tomorrow but I believe the countdown timer is glitched and showing the time left of the season instead
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
Maybe that’s what I’m feeling- the lack of seasonal mod options might be what’s annoying me. I don’t always feel this way
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u/Necrolance Warlock main for life 1d ago
I think we had the same in season of the wish, which sucked because it was anti barrier sidearm and if you were like me and new because of into the light at the time you had no indebted or buried bloodline. At least there's good pulses and scouts to use for this and we have two weapons for some of the mods. Plus we have anti barrier with radiant or destabilizing rounds so long as the weapon isn't also using an anti champ mod. It's better than it was but still sucks
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u/PDXpatriate Warlock Jump Apologist 1d ago
yeah I feel the same. I got a really kickass Theodolite roll I love using and when I load up the champ list it’s almost always like “ahh well guess it’s mint and yeartide/devil’s ruin again”. I know mint is great but I just wanna use my launcher!
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u/Kooky-Dog-9037 1d ago
Bro, barrier champs are the bane of my existence. it's downright diabolical to give us one anti barrier mod (pulse and scout btw like wtf), and bombard us with barrier champs in every activity.
I also love how it says being radiant can stun barrier champs, but it just.. doesn't??? Fantastic.
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u/xeryx_ 1d ago
The only situation in which radiant wouldn't stun is if your weapon already has another kind of anti champ effect, otherwise it 100% works.
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u/Kooky-Dog-9037 1d ago
Fucking hell man give me the dunce cap. I gotta turn off that overload mod asap.
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
Yes it’s dealt barrier I’m annoyed at right now- and none of the barrier weapons have a double value as DPS backup. It’s annoying
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u/CashMunster 1d ago
Is it actually finely tuned if you can't deal with some champions though?
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
Busted. But it still doesn’t change the fact that a huge number of weapons have 0 value after certain difficulty level bc they do nothing for champs… that’s still a build limitation issue
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u/CashMunster 1d ago
I hear what you’re saying. I’m all for play how you want with what you want. I also think for higher level activities it’s a way to have some sort of mechanic and force you/players to adapt.
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u/BaconIsntThatGood 1d ago
I also think for higher level activities it’s a way to have some sort of mechanic and force you/players to adapt.
This is really the case - it's only master+ content that actually has champions now and even when dealing with master quickplay you can largely brute force the champions away.
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u/Snivyland Spiders crew 1d ago
I don’t know what to say champions are so easy to deal with now a days. Unless your on void your build isn’t “finely” tuned if you can’t innately deal with one champion making it easy to then compensate for whatever your missing.
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u/Spetsnaz_Chick 1d ago
Im the exact opposite, now that we control the diffulty and im not always super below them they die so fast I usually dont have to worry about them like I would before do8ng old gm content
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u/SituationSalty4261 1d ago
There only being 1 anti barrier annoying because there is no rocket pulse in the energy slot. I don't like relying on volatile rounds because there is a kill condition for destab and the fragment which just isn't always reliable. I usually find there aren't enemies to activate the on-kill verbs or the barrier activated when the buff had a second left. Solar's radiant is easy to activate because it just needs you to hit anything with a powered melee, but I'm playing stasis most of the time. The issue with champions is also that you can't double on champion types unless if the verb you're using is a debuff like radiant with burning ambition or chill clip with artifact.
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u/makoblade 1d ago
Your loadout is not finely tuned if you're complaining about switching to address champions.
They're one of the few actual decent levers to mitigate the "have it all syndrome" players who want to have their one setup and use it on everything forever.
Any "build" that requires a specific subclass setup and weapons with no flexibility should rightfully be penalized for being too hyper focused.
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u/mariachiskeleton 1d ago
Yep. Champs have been easy to deal with ever since subclass verbs became anti-champ.
With this season's artifact, Ahab char alone can give you overload from column 1, with burning ambition can ignite unstops, and as a solar weapon it can give you radiant which makes anything else anti barrier.
If i can counter all 3 types with essentially 1 weapon and people aren't willing/able to solve it with 3 weapons and their subclass, the champs aren't the issue here...
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u/BlackPlague1235 Duunkai-Sol, the Plague Master 1d ago
I have just been using Outbreak Perfected for barrier, Shoreline Dissident for unstoppable, and Boomslang-4fr with Jolting Feedback for overload.
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u/ArteenEsben Drifter's Crew 22h ago
This for me except Returned Memory (solar rocket sidearm) in the energy slot.
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u/S627 1d ago
Except no one wants that kind of mitigation, everyone wants to have the creative freedom to play using whatever build they want, not being forced to have certain things to hard counter Champions.
It's the exact reason everyone hates the featured gear system and Avant Garde modifier, I honestly dont understand how Bungie didn't realize everyone would hate it.
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u/makoblade 1d ago
Champions are a different lever and fulfill an entirely different purpose, and are generally healthy for the game to facilitate variety while having no unreasonable downsides.
For end game activities it's extremely reasonable for Bungie to dictate that you, as a team, need to clear a few checkboxes to be sufficiently able to beat the content. It's unhealthy for the game to encourage or overly enable single minded one-trick builds that need all 3 weapon slots and every fragment/aspect to function and can't spare any flexibility to shift for dealing with a champion.
New gear is to force engagement more than any sort of intelligent build decisions.
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u/S627 1d ago
I agree with you on having a challenge the TEAM needs to clear. The issue is how champs are implemented in Solo and matchmaking activities. Having one or two champs solo is fine, there are plenty of builds to choose from that are capable of dealing with one or two.
But having random champs in solo activities and all three in matchmaking is way too limiting because you HAVE to adjust to take them all out because you know damn will randies arent gonna do it.
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
What
Champions are like literal nothing compared to what they were. They barely exist for 10secs and barely have to be stunned to be melted
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u/LightspeedFlash 1d ago
No idea what your talking about, there are loads of options for every champ now, most of my builds just incidentally clover at least 2 different ones.
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
See the previous comment. Your particular builds probably aren’t affected this season but the rest of us are feeling it
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u/LightspeedFlash 1d ago
I mean, my builds aren't really special, I run some weapons that most people won't, like arbalest, bastion, etc, that already have intrinsic champ stun and then cover the other one, usually overload with a primary, like an auto or whatever, takes 2 seconds to swap, the rest of the build is the same. This is a skill issue if your builds can't be flexible enough to cover them.
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u/TheBandit_42 a.k.a Black Spindle 1d ago
Totally agree....being forced to build around the champion stun mechanic just sucks. I will put a build together with great weapon synergy only to then have to swap to the same pulse, smg, sidearm, etc to deal with champions.
I don't mind the champions themselves.....just the force stun mechanic.
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u/confon68 1d ago
Champs are super easy to deal with now compared to before the revamp of what effects them (jolt, radiant etc). Before it was basically perfect loadout or gg, now it’s kind of whatever imo.
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u/SCPF2112 1d ago
It is super easy this season. You can stop 2 of 3 with one AR. I've done the portal up to 449 6/8 (thanks RNG for never dropping the last two) with a single loadout.
Lack of variety? Well yeah, but maybe we complain about doing Caldera 500 times rather than about build crafting limits if we want to complain about lack of variety :)
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u/PineApple_Papy 1d ago
I haven’t felt this problem personally. Usually can out damage an overload with bonk hammer, mint never comes off so anti barrier is there. Unstoppables are annoying because I have to hold ADS while a phalanx that can launch me into the stratosphere or an ogre with a raid dps worthy grape beam is quickly closing the distance between us
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u/zakz9859 1d ago
Normally I don't like comparing Destiny Rising on here because they are really 2 different things, but I will say that if they took the Shinkas in Destiny Rising and just copied them as is over to Destiny to replace champions it would be way more fun. I actively enjoy stunning those in that game, it's like a little minigame for each Shinka, and you CAN use any weapon, but certain ones are clearly more effective. It's just fun.
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u/fred112015 23h ago
Champions are a good example of why people should get used to stuff like the new gear system lol they have been hated and ppl are over it for YEARS but they keep putting them in everything lol
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u/Glitchosaurusplays 23h ago
champions felt the best they ever have during heresy because of chill clip. bring it back please!
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u/MLGesusWasTaken 23h ago
Then your “finely tuned build” is actually a “not well thought out build”. Champions have been in the game since Shadowkeep, and we’ve been able to deal with them with element verbs since what, like season 20 or something? The problem is you. Covering 1 champ type with a weapon and another with a verb is insanely easy. Covering all 3 takes a little bit more thinking, but it’s extremely doable
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u/DacStreetsDacAlright 23h ago
Tinasha'a Mastery with Chill Clip can stop Overloads and Unstops in one. Thats why its rarely left my loadout all season.
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u/KingofPaladins 20h ago
Somewhat related but I still hate that Radiant doesn’t work on a gun that has “intrinsic” anti-Champion capabilities including if it’s from the artifact. I get why, the Stasis nerfs aimed at Tinasha’s clearly indicates they hate it when something can deal with multiple champion types too easily, but still, it’s just frustrating. Like, why can’t Ahab Char deal with every Champion via Overload Automatic Fire + Burning Ambition + Radiant? Because Bungie says so. Ugh.
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u/Seanshineyouth 18h ago
Yeah I noticed all this after the fact… the multi champ options are nerfed or gone all together— and if they want to do that they’re gonna have to start giving us more options - especially for exotics
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u/doopiesweat 20h ago
This is one of the reasons I’ve long maintained that every exotic weapon should have an intrinsic anti-champ. It doesn’t solve the problem outright but gives you more grace to address champs without outright nuking your build.
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u/mayormcskeeze 15h ago
The artifact was especially limiting and build destroying this time around. Really didn't help.
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u/NoLegeIsPower 14h ago
Yeah. Banes are basically a 100% better version of what champions were trying to do.
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u/RevolutionaryBoat925 13h ago
Especially since ranndomization made pretty tough to always have a stun option for all 3 of them. You never know what you're gonna get.
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u/IntelligentCloud605 9h ago
Wdym that the avante garde, match game and all 3 champs activity restrict your loadout.
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u/tbdubbs 3h ago
It got better with subclass verbs, but overall they are just annoying and tedious. I've hated them from the first introduction and all they do is provide a giant roadblock for build crafting and build diversity - and more importantly, they're anti fun.
It's like everything they do to provide "difficulty" or "mix things up" just adds annoying and tedious to the game. The people making this have aren't playing it, and I don't know that they're all that good at it anymore. Harsh, but with these last few months I think it's obvious.
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u/Antedelopean Team Bread (dmg04) // Jotunn toaster please 2h ago
I definitely feel this, especially in activities with new gear modifier and chill clip nerf. And God forbid I swap off the build I was using to grind power level for the past 200 power, and I'm immediately screwed over, because I can't easily infuse em up, due to an arbitrarily expensive limitation of unstable core currency.
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u/Balthsar36 1d ago
Now I know you guys are just crying for crying sake. Champs are a non issue. They are basically orange bar enemies with one extra step.
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u/Djungleskog_Enhanced 1d ago
Champions have never been fun or interesting to engage with, just a loadout/build check. Banes you can at least use whatever you want and are a little more active
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u/SSDragon19 1d ago
I kinda second this. The weapons on the artifact doesn't benefit my playstyle. Most of them are primary weapons.
Sure we have a wide variety of special side arms, but only 1 special hand cannon (erianas vow, exotic anti-barrier.) 1 special auto rifle (choir of one, exotic) and 1 special pulse rifle (legendary mint retrograde).
I like to have 1 primary and 1 special, close range and usually medium range, sometimes long range.
The artifact is alot of close range and the rest is medium to long. So I'm either stuck with both awkward medium long range or both close range.
Plus the stasis changes. Rime-coat/mask of fealty used to take care of 2, so I usually ran erianas vow for the last and have spare weapon slots to use as backup.
Then the feature gear system limits it even more.
So I usually just run all 3 weapons as anti champion with whatever build I want to run, not care about the feature gear and mostly play how I want to play, and not how bungie wants me to play.
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u/TheLastNacho 1d ago
Have always hated champions. Much prefer fighting banes, minus screeber. Why that is a thing I’ll never know.
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u/jnyrdr 1d ago
i would just honestly try some new builds. i usually run gifted conviction hunter with outbreak, the new rocket sidearm, and a sword. ascension covers the overload, outbreak is ab, and sidearm for unstops.
last night i finally got around to putting together a grapple build and took it into a gm (i’m 408) and could just one-shot champs without even using weapons lol. it was honestly fun, which is something destiny has been missing of late. anyway, if you can find a build that you like and has abilities that can handle champs, then it frees you up to run whatever weapons you want. i know it doesn’t really address the issue you’re raising but just a thought.
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u/Owain660 1d ago
I'm tired of champions. I hate being forced into using specific guns or abilities just to deal with something. Yes, champions were made easier in like 2023 with the added abilities like ignite to stun shields, but I'm so over it alread.
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u/Brave-Combination793 1d ago
Its just overloads that are annoying the rest are fine... and even then its just overload captains
Boons are way mkre annoying imo
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
Overloads are zero issue for me… it’s barriers… see what I mean? It’s entirely build dependent wxperience
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u/KitsuneKamiSama 1d ago
Honestly the Shinka system in Rising feels better than champions, feels more flexible and isn't doesn't completely stonewall you if you have the wrong thing, plus they don't regen to full up the moment you turn your backs on them.
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u/EKmars Omnivores Always Eat Well 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is ridiculous. Shinkas are literally just champions you can't break with abilities, and since characters can't swap weapons a lot of them cannot handle multiple shinka types, and since everyone only has 2 weapons, they can't handle more than 2. A lot of content that uses them is timed, so brute forcing them is ineffective and hurts your rewards. In their current state, champions are pretty easily handled because you have verb base breaking, meaning you probably have at least 1 covered just because you have a class.
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u/Ethan24Waber 1d ago
I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous complaint, there are so many tools to deal with so many champions it's a non-issue.
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u/itsRobbie_ 1d ago
If I can’t just nuke one to death instantly with brute force before their mechanic happens I will not even try to interact with them for the rest of the activity. Sorry blueberries. They’re the worst thing in the game behind featured gear and loot tied to levels
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u/Seanshineyouth 1d ago
I used to do the same but I’m closing in on 400 and it’s next to impossible at that point
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u/itsRobbie_ 19h ago
I’m 360 and still doing alright so far
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u/HeftyAd6216 1d ago
I've enjoyed the grapple builds because you just 1 shot them on almost every difficulty. That's really been the only thing keeping me going on pve is perfecting the rotation of the build.
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u/Blaike325 1d ago
I like how rising handles “champs” they’re called shinkas and each one has a mechanic that you deal with differently based on what weapon group they’re weak to (there’s four types) you’re gonna have a hard time taking down their shields with the wrong weapon type but it’s still doable just riskier, like the close range one has a bubble and you need to go into the bubble to break the shield and it takes way more damage from close range weapons, there’s the blast one that had a bunch of orbs floating around it that you can hit all at the same time with explosive weapons or you can shoot them one by one with another weapon, there’s precision one which for every shot you land on the weak spot of the shield sends out seeker missiles so you want to hit it with precision weapons to send out the least amount of seekers, and the rapid fire one which is basically just a shield that takes one damage per single bullet that hits it, so you CAN break it with slow firing weapons it just takes way longer.
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u/whelo-and-stitch 1d ago
Destiny rising actually handles their version of champions so much better it's crazy
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u/captainkillalot 1d ago
I agree especially with the change to shatter not stunning unstops anymore. When you have that plus the featured gear system and avant garde, the number of options to deal with all 3 champion types gets very limited very quickly