r/DestinyTheGame • u/thekolacheking • 1d ago
Discussion Extending this season's "new-item" lifespan into Renegades isn't enough.
In a vacuum it sounds fine, "cool, my t5 armor and weapons will be usable in all Renegades activities."
This is not enough.
Conceding to an extra 6 months should not be the stopping point. "Featured" and "New Gear" as well as the bonus provided need to go.
Removing new gear also conveniently fixes the issue of activities outside the portal being mostly useless - give them powerful drops as well and we've got progress!
Pushing dungeon keys in the last TWID, and yet we can't use that dungeon gear in avant garde or touche enabled activities? Remove 'new gear' and players may actually be encouraged to buy the dungeon keys since they could actually use the loot!
Why are we stumbling over our feet here?
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u/OrionzDestiny 1d ago
I think incentivising new gear is fine, which they have been doing for years by giving Artifact perks that buff new Origin Traits. I would even be ok with the Loot Tier system by itself, as I feel as though its a superior way of handing loot rather than Adepts.
However, this mandatory featured gear has to go. Its crazy to me how they just gave up on innovative ways to incentivize new loot and went the low-hanging fruit lazy route of slapping a reward multiplier bonus carefully curated to punish anyone wanting to use:
- Exotic Class Items as a whole
- Dungeon lootapaloza gear they hyped up for months until and through the event ending directly before this change
- Anything they personally decided on a whim that they didnt want us running for no legitimate reason, which happens to be the every single legendary before this season, and 90% of Exotics
I suppose this is Bungie's way of "Raising the Level Cap" that is present in other games, but at least in other games you can replace what you currectly have with new versions of that item. In Destiny, you can still use old gear, but at the cost of reward tiers, which is the foundation which the entire system is built upon.
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u/Obvious_Peanut_8093 1d ago
i'm gunna be 100% with you right now. i have never once looked at the origin trait buffs and thought, "now i really wanna use this new gear!" thoes bonuses have been virtually meaningless the entire time they have existed. the only ones that were compelling were the ones that interacted with the old mod system like warmind cells and elemental wells. everything else has just been small buffs to stats or something. they're so small i can't even remember what they did.
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u/OrionzDestiny 1d ago
Oh, I agree on the Artifact perks regarding Origin Trait. I was just saying that they had recognized the need to make new loot desirable, and spent developer time on that front, but when it didnt land like they'd hoped, they resorted to the Featured Gear handicap system.
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u/HazardousSkald 1d ago
Which to that point: a good development has been the seasonal weapon mods. There’s just a few of them, you can slap them on any new gun, and they’re pretty good. I feel like that’s a less intrusive way for them to try and nudge us toward new gear by including something that’s not direct power but really good (for example: this mod makes this weapon make an extra orb of power, this gun provides melee energy on kills and grenade energy on precision kills).
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u/lordvulguuszildrohar 12h ago
I’d be fine with the mods only being usable on featured gear. That would be juuuust fine. Everything else though defeats the purpose of all of this.
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u/Angelous_Mortis 22h ago
There was like... One for me. Winning Hand buffing Dealer's Choice giving it a Solar Explosion on precision kills was REALLY FUCKING NICE AND I'D LIKE THAT MADE PERMENANT, BUNGIE, PLEASE AND THANK YOU!
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u/RND_Musings 1d ago
The armor origin traits have been mostly forgettable in most seasons. The blinding effect of TecSec's origin trait is pretty useful for ad control, though.
As for weapons, there are a few older origin traits that I like.
- Field-Tested at 5x stacks makes for fast reloads
- Alacrity is great for solo play
- Willing Vessel (yet another reload booster)
- Stunning Recovery can be helpful for ammo against champs
There are a few more that I won't bother to list. None of them are OP but they are not meaningless. They can't really be too powerful. Otherwise you run into this season's problem with Temporal Blast. It's a weapon mod, but it's overshadowing all of the other mods.
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u/Obvious_Peanut_8093 22h ago
its not about the origin traits themselves, its about how the artifact interacted with them. you could have made the artifact perk permanent and the guns and i still wouldn't think they made new guns more desirable.
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u/d3l3t3rious 20h ago
Also the fact that you still can't save mods with loadouts is not helping things. I can barely remember to constantly switch my actually meaningful artifact mods to match the loadout, much less the piddly origin trait mods.
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u/Timely-Blackberry-87 1d ago
Exactly this. Bungie used to incentivize you to use new gear with bonuses. Now you’re incentivized with punishment. Classic carrot vs stick situation.
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u/ImawhaleCR 1d ago
Every single part of the new gear bonus, is a bonus. It's only a punishment because people are deciding to view it that way.
Previous version could be viewed in exactly the same way, like legend incarnate from last season. That was a raw 10-20% damage buff to vog weapons, which functionally made every other weapon just worse.
It's not at all carrot Vs stick, it's literally the same thing but the prevailing opinion is just that it's bad
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u/Timely-Blackberry-87 23h ago
So wrong.
The seasonal artifact buffs to a few origin traits were a fine albeit boring way to hilight some gear temporarily.
The new system actively punishes you for using old gear by gimping your power progression.
Saying it’s the same thing is objectively asinine.
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u/ImawhaleCR 23h ago
The new system actively punishes you for using old gear by gimping your power progression.
The new system actively rewards you for using new gear, by providing a way to need less of a power deficit for the best rewards
These are exactly the same statement, both are true, they're just different perspectives.
Equally, you could say that old artifact mods punish you for not using new weapons by providing a significant opportunity cost in effectiveness, or say that they provide an efficacy bonus for new weapons. Again, both are true.
Taking a glass half full approach on the past and a half empty one on the present is not a reasonable way to compare systems.
The amount of benefits new gear provides has increased, but arguing that it's now a negative rather than a positive is silly. It's the same as it was in the past, and if you can appreciate that you can give more appropriate feedback.
It's a perfectly valid viewpoint to want a reduction in the breadth and depth of the new gear bonuses, but don't be disingenuous about it
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u/Timely-Blackberry-87 23h ago
Reading comprehension clearly isn’t your strong suit.
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u/PxM23 22h ago
They’re absolutely right though. The new gear bonuses are straight up damage and score bonuses. The old artifact perks were also damage bonuses. But just as you can interpret the new gear bonuses as a punishment for anything that isn’t new gear, you could also construe the old artifact bonuses for anything that isn’t featured in the artifact as a punishment aswell. That’s not me justifying the new gear bonuses mind you, the score bonus is absolutely detrimental, and the damage bonuses are mostly unnecessary when we have seasonal mods.
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u/BrianWhiting 22h ago
Reading comprehension clearly isn’t yours. What ImawhaleCR said is 100% correct.
If you start from the basis of non-featured gear giving base damage/DR/score, then featured gear is giving a bonus on top of that. If you start from the basis of featured gear giving base damage/DR/score, then sure, non-featured gear is punishing you by lowering those values.
The objective truth is that there is a difference in those things between featured and non-featured gear. The subjective opinion is whether it’s a bonus or a punishment…
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u/killer6088 1d ago
Dude, I would not even try to argue that with this community. I have tried before. People here just think anything that is not the most op things is considered a punishment and a negative. People seem to think the game is balanced around having the best god rolled everything.
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u/ImawhaleCR 1d ago
It's actually mad at times how deluded some people can be, they're seemingly unable to look honestly at what's in front of them and have no ability to think even slightly critically.
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u/Big_Zimm 21h ago
I get where the frustration comes from, but personally I’d much rather see new gear incentivized with a bonus than have old gear flat-out sunset. To me, the word bonus means adding to, not taking away.
Yeah, my older pieces might not have the best perks anymore, and some of the new stuff comes with stronger damage bonuses, but I’m just happy I can still roll with my old favorites. At least the gear I’ve invested in isn’t instantly invalidated. I’ll take “slightly less optimal but still usable” over “deleted from relevance” any day.
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u/Kingofthered 23h ago
In other games, using wow expansions or patches as the example, there's actually new content to get gear in.
A gear cycle change in modern wow means new leveling story content to get starter gear, new max level story content to start boosting it, new dungeons/raids/activities that scale between basic max level content and full endgame content.
Destiny decides to chase being an MMO in the worst possible ways. Wanting the ability to make players refresh their gear, without essentially any new content to make it worth it.
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u/blackest-Knight 20h ago
In other games, gear isn't the goal. Gear is a tool.
Destiny 2 has an end game problem : their whole end game is "GEAR!". Whereas WoW is : "RAID! DUNGEONS! GLADIATOR!".
In WoW, you're fighting tooth and nail to get that CE, that Keystone Master, or better yet, that Orange parse on Mythic boss, or that High +30 key ceiling. Just grind hitting up arenas to get that 2.4K+ rating and hold it. Gear is the tool that opens up those possibilities and makes you better able to do it. As you get upgrades weekly, you push further and further.
Finishing the story in Destiny 2, you're left just mindlessly grinding for gear. What does this gear do ? It looks shiny. It does more damage you'll never really see or feel because no damage meters or combat logging. It required you to clear the highest difficulty to get, there is nothing higher this gear will push you into. Not that clearing a GM fireteam ops offers any sort of real reward other than gear.
To be an MMO, D2 would need a massive overhaul of their endgame.
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u/Background_Length_45 5h ago
D2 endgame wont get overhauled because it would be a waste, statistics proof 80-90% of destiny players refuse to play anything harder or longer than strikes or patrols
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u/blackest-Knight 5h ago
Because there's little value to it.
By contrast, 70% of players in WoW raid at some level or another. And WoW has more players in general than D2.
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u/CrayonEater4000 1d ago edited 1d ago
I refuse to play as long as the Tiered system exists in game.
You're telling me, I will get the godroll gun I want while grinding to hit T5 powerlevel and just go "oh, this is worthless because it's not even a T3 or T4"
I liked adepts because hey, you want the best version of a gun you go grind the GM for it or whatever. This bullshit of having to play 100 hours of grinding, just to get THE EXACT SAME ROLL I GOT 40 HOURS AGO, BUT THIS TIME WITH A T5 NEXT TO IT'S NAME?
Like JFC, I get it, people disliked crafting, but omfg they had Adepts right there, just fucking make adepts the only thing you can enhance perks on and boom, now everyone can get the "base" version of guns with crafting and then if they want the "pinnacle" of it with enhanced perks, they can go grind for the adept roll.
We don't need 5 fucking tiers of weapons with 3 of them being "auto-dismantle dogshit, hopefully it wasn't the roll you were wanting!"
The thing that got me BACK into D2 was playing WQ, doing patrol spaces and getting my Funnelweb. Imagining now that a new player would get that same funnelweb BUT WORSE because of the meaningless fucking power level tied to Tiers is fucking heartbreaking.
Get fucked Bungie. That shit is not okay. Imagine getting the roll you want after grinding a dungeon encounter, but whoops, it's only a T4 and not a T5! You have to grind it all over again sorry.
Like why are you advocating for making the weapon grind WORSE with your support of the Tiers bullshit
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u/0rganicMach1ne 19h ago
This was a major part of why I passed on EoF. It’s SUCH a dumb system where you effectively have to grind just for the ability to grind for the god roll at the level you want. Then it eventually loses its buff because of the “new head” system. Complete trash, mobile game garbage mechanics.
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u/OmegaClifton 1d ago
I really feel like they introduced the featured gear thing with a six month life span so that they'd have an easier time swaying the player base into thinking a one year lifespan for gear was good.
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u/Packet_Sniffer_ 23h ago
Just wait until after renegades when the exotic gear rework is done and all of our exotics are useless. They’ll be rereleasing old exotics for the new system and they’ll only be doing 2-3 at a time. Basically, the featured system is getting us ready for the fact that exotics 2.0 after renegades will be the same.
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u/TJCGamer Please Buff Dawn Chorus 4h ago
And then, once the next expansion after lands and everyone despises the fact that their shit isn't relevant anymore, they'll retire the system entirely. Making everyone wonder what the whole point of it all was.
The exact same thing happened with sunsetting during beyond light.
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u/TheSnowballzz 22h ago
It’s not even a lifespan. Sure, you score less in the current Portal system. But the weapons are still very usable anywhere but the top end of power progression. (Which is something they’ve already announced changes for)
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u/killer6088 1d ago
Bungie never once said featured gear would only last 6 months. This community just make the assumption from nothing.
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u/OmegaClifton 23h ago
What are you talking about? They told us gear exits the featured gear system after a certain time. Originally 6 months.
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u/killer6088 23h ago
Do you have a source that said it was 6 months? Because Bungie never said when it would happen. Only that featured gear was limited. People just assumed 6 months.
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u/OmegaClifton 23h ago
They said featured gear would cycle every major release. They were planning on having a major release twice a year. Renegades and Edge of Fate this year. I'd find you a source, but I'm at work.
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u/killer6088 20h ago
Do you have a source where they said that? I can not find any source that confirmed featured gear would only last 6 months. All I found was it saying new featured gear would be introduced each DLC. But nothing about how long it would keep the featured flag.
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u/OmegaClifton 20h ago
I remember seeing it somewhere in one of the pre release things. Maybe a TWID? But anyway, they did extend the duration a piece of loot remains featured gear. I think it was originally supposed to end on renegades launch, but now featured gear lasts the year?
No idea if it's rolling or if renegades gear will be featured half as long as this seasons gear. I'll take a look and see about a true source when I get home. It's kinda bugging me now.
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u/hawkleberryfin 22h ago
If Bungie doesn't want the community to assume the worst, which we should with their history on things like crafting, then they should be the ones to clarify things.
It's not like they don't know this is hot topic in the community.
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u/killer6088 20h ago
I agree. But at the same time this community is terrible at just making assumptions around unconfirmed things.
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u/zoompooky 1d ago
We don't even know if 12 is the "new number" or they did a one-time extension due to growing pains...
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u/DinnertimeNinja 1d ago
I think it's fine to have things like Conqests where we have to use new gear, and it's fine to have the "Avant-garde" modifier available for us to choose (should give more bonus though), but having a forced multiplier in place for using new gear makes me play with gear that i would actively prefer not to play with.
Plus, it's cut my loadout diversity by like 90% because upgrading other weapons to my light level is prohibitably expensive.
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u/jimrx7 1d ago
I will wear the same tier 4 Techsec and tier 4 Luxurious combo while swapping out certain exotics until this game dies. I wear the exact same armor for everything and I don't care. I cannot be bothered into wasting my time for a .01% chance at getting the armor I want for a build.
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
lol what.
It’s actually quite easy to steamroll content in 10mins and have every type of armor in a matter of no time.
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u/Zayl 1d ago
No room in the vault really.
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u/2Dopamine 1d ago
Vault problem for me. I’m still rocking T3 and saving T3 though. Maybe that’ll change when I start getting T4s.
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u/Aggressive_Ferret514 1d ago
i feel like using only t3 is crazy? is it not pretty easy to get t4? i felt like i was getting t4 every-time i played. maybe I’m not understanding the tier differences!
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u/2Dopamine 1d ago
I’m only 325* power currently. I mostly just play crucible. Comp and trials. Supposedly powering up is going to get easier after ash and iron but I decided after the campaign, I wasn’t going to just grind portal just for the sake of power. I’ll get to whatever power I get to before the renegades reset.
I’ll get T4 when prime engrams drop for me, now and again. I wear a T4 helmet rn. Most all of my drops are T3 currently.
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u/Aggressive_Ferret514 5h ago
ah that makes sense. i just played the campaigns finally with my roommate and we were getting them constantly. wishing you luck broski
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
Bro that the real nemesis of my playtime!! I having even logged on this week really. Bc bruhhh an hour of staring at PvE/PvP weapon rolls okay what MUST go!?
Again..
When I’ve cleared my vault like 3-4x this season. All old armour is gone . All craftable gone. All w/o origin trait Gone.
And armor. Idk I probably don’t need every archaetype of every set. But with all the new systems and gear, means the meta is still being formulated
- so I’m expecting PvP/PvE stat balancing to change at least somewhat over the next few months .
But man staring at Armor stat lines in DiM comparison for 2 hours.
When I also have 3 other live service games I play. Is painnn
I suppose this why games reset loot as well. When can literally keep loot for 10 years…
But yeah. That’s the real conversation. And biggest issue by far for me beyond all these same dtg “why can’t I…” posts everyday
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u/gamerlord02 1d ago
If only there was a system that emphasized players to move on from their old gear, in favor of new ones
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u/Zayl 1d ago
I have all new gear at T4/5 lol. What the fuck you saying? I deleted all my old armor except for one hunter artifice set for the memories.
All my crafted gear I'm not using is gone, all exotics I don't use are gone including armors. There's easily like 1,000+ armor pieces you need to fill out all permutations across all sets. There's like 5 possible rolls per archetype, per armor set, per armor slot.
I'm not even collecting them all, just trying to hang on to what's useful. I'm sure eventually I'll just fucking trash everything if I even log on again. Been 4 weeks. Longest I've been gone since like Sunsetting. I wonder why...
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u/Packet_Sniffer_ 23h ago
Nope. Warlock without Solipsism can only hit for 3k max. We have nothing once the lightning slide build is removed from play with touché.
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u/VersaSty7e 19h ago
Bro I was just running a warlock with another warlock running pinnacle ops last weekend , with all new gear, in like 8 mins. To get decked out in Bushido.
Not even using prismatic.
It must be like the other guy said , about the thread complaining about champions being too much. (Barely stunned before melted these days in my experience)
DTG just must be filled with either bad or suboptimal players making these threads. You can quite possibly clear this entire game using whatever rather freely. D2 is not that difficult.
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u/Packet_Sniffer_ 19h ago
Okay? I can also pick up a Titan that one shots the entire map for me?
Running trio content fast is irrelevant to the discussion. That doesn’t change that warlock is getting massively nerfed by having solipsism removed from its pool of items.
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u/VersaSty7e 19h ago
Then why was I downvoted for saying it’s quite easy to steamroll content in 10 mins. Thank you, bc I my statement was objectively correct.
I’m not here to argue this class vs that class does it 30 seconds faster. Balance will never be perfect. In any build variety game.
I was explicitly responding to a comment that was stating it took a lot of time to accumulate gear sets.
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u/Packet_Sniffer_ 19h ago
Because the patch comes out tomorrow. Jesus Christ. You are capable of understanding that ultimate and touché are not in the game yet, right?
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u/VersaSty7e 1h ago
Holy ffuuuhh overly emotional Reddit GAMERS are the funniest. It will be okay. I hope you survive out there in your video game! The terror of using new loot sounds insane!
Or not using a warlock. Or not having a class item crutch. Good luck out there in the brutal world of Destiny 2 the video game .
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u/Darth_H0wl 1d ago
And that's why the system is fine as it is. The people who want grind for the bonous and new sets can and the people who don't want to grind can stick with there old stuff. Peaple should be rewarded for grinding new stuff which is what this system gives.
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u/BaconIsntThatGood 1d ago
The only real problem is optics.
If you sit and look at what the real bonuses are and think about how it actually impacts your moment to moment gameplay (you know that thing you're doing when actually playing the game) - you realize quick that the new/featured gear label means little.
However - bungie makes a point to highlight it and has modifiers that work with it so it seems more important on the surface than it really is.
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u/Wafwala 1d ago
The blue flag/Text is what bothers me the most. Not seeing the blue feels like it's alien to my kit and my loadout is incomplete.
It's like how Android users appear green when messaging Apple phone users.
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u/VersaSty7e 19h ago
So true huh!! The apple effect thing 🤣💬📘. I don’t mind using new gear. It’s the features exotics that suck ass. Especially when half the good inner for the season aren’t there.
Although. I did use an exotic I otherwise probably wouldn’t. And did help me rewalize the artifact is actually set up quite well to work with more than just SOLAR/Strand/stasis
(stasis small bc it’s still kinda mid)
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u/DJBlade92 1d ago
I just want the stupid reward bonus removed. Keep the damage bonus, keep avant garde in Conquest. Just don't mess with my grind.
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u/DarkDj90000 21h ago
I think my biggest issues are avante garde and resetting power levels to 200 like what's the point in playing other than story and fun with friends I don't want to have to grind to 550 from 200 I want to grind to 550 from 450 and so on and avante garde...really? Let me use my favorite exotics and weapons don't force me to use new gear that doesn't synergize with ANY of my builds 😒
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u/TheGod_Who 1d ago edited 1d ago
It makes more sense to just come out with new gear that has bonuses that are either better or fill a different niche so that we have a reason to use it over old gear instead of sunsetting the gear we've grinded for with some arbitrary "new gear" bs.
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u/Bob_The_Moo_Cow88 1d ago
We will see how aggressively Bungie wants to keep this when Borderlands starts hitting the player count. After listening to a couple of reviews and roadmaps for that game, I think Destiny 2 is going to be in some major trouble. The one thing D2 has going for it is the PvP. Too bad Bungie has completely shit all over the PvP lovers to the point most people don’t care anymore.
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u/mlemmers1234 1d ago
I just don't understand why they feel the need to reinvent the wheel all the time with their loot system. What we already had was perfectly fine with the final shape.
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u/Large-Breadfruit1684 1d ago
Its because the directors changing hands quite a few times all with different game philosophy
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u/killer6088 1d ago
Probably because the community keeps complaining about everything in the game every year. What was the last thing this community actually liked? Even crafting was bitched about for the first year it released.
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u/Exciting_Fisherman12 17h ago
I’ll never forgive the people who complained about crafting.
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u/TJCGamer Please Buff Dawn Chorus 4h ago
Its not like bungie was listening to them. They just didn't like the idea of people being done with a content drop. Once everyone collected all the red borders they wanted they just stopped playing until the next season. I imagine that bungie wouldn't want that with 6 month content cycles. They need you to be playing for something until the next update comes out.
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u/chaoticsynergist 21h ago
Incentive is fine but i think whenever they re invent their wheels or systems they always put in broken spokes and dig their heels in about them.
i think the damage bonus is largely a negative as it can impact how guns feel regardless if its 5% or not. SMGs and auto rifles are the biggest losers of such a system as being rapid fire weapons, they feel the damage bonuses the most over something like Agape the double fire hand cannon. This is noticeable if you have an okay-tiered version of the Raid SMG vs a non new gear smg in something like mythic keplar or other under-light content where legendary primaries already struggle much already. (SMGs especially so unless youre a titan with the silly boots on)
Avente Garde wouldnt feel so punishing if it felt like we had enough weapons to fill out slots for the playstyles we have IMO and that *could* be solved going into renegades with even more gear dropping but id argue it shouldnt have been an issue to begin with. Don't get me started about the activity multiplier thing which is just another layer of frustration.
i think the new tier system was incentive enough to move onto newer gear barring some things i disagree with such as i think t5 should have been purely a peacocking tier rather than it still having a bonus over tier 4 since its only a matter of time before we get origin traits so good that a non t5 version would just be bad to use. Like if Vow ever gets a loot refresh for tiered weapons, theres no reason to use tier1-4 loot since soul drinker heals you double when its enhanced.
it feels like the entire system rework was like 70/30 on a ratio of changes that sounded good as a developer/business facing change VS. a actual player enjoyment facing change.
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u/Cryhunter059 20h ago
It is okay to incentivize new gear, it is bad to punish using older gear. And yes, there is a difference.
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u/jeepgrl50 19h ago
I don't mind new/featured gear getting small bonuses necessarily, But the fact that it restricts our loadouts as well as the negative impacts on score is unacceptable. If it ONLY provides slight reload/dmg for weapons(5%) & some small DR(10%), I don't love that, But it's more reasonable than our current situation is.
I really wish they'd tie the DR bonuses to tier of your armor. 10% for all T3, 12% for all T4, 15% for all T5(2%, 2.5%, 3% per piece).
As for weapons I think bonuses should be based on tier as well w/old weapons being treated as they should be based on enhancement level, Craftability, etc. Really old weapons w/fixed rolls = T1, Forsaken era weapons up until crafting/enhancability = T2, Fully enhanced/Crafted weapons = T3, & EoF ranges stay intact. This, Or something like it anyway, Would be how I think we should be looking at it rather than all our old gear being soft sunset.
These are just my surface level thoughts on what it should probably look like, Not "hard/fast". I just hate that we're punished for using gear we spent all this time getting pre-EoF, Its disrespectful to players time to not bring gear forward that we spent countless hours getting crafting patterns or specific rolls on said weapons. Couple that with score penalties, Modifiers, etc it's just a terrible system.
Ive been playing GM at -50 w/ No boons & 3 of 4 player stakes, And still don't get A rating even w/bonus objective & time limit both completed w/ all new/featured gear. This is likely bc I don't have the score bonuses from the season pass but this should NOT be the case regardless. It shouldn't be that A rank is reserved for those who buy a pass rather than your skill. If you're playing at -40 to -50 w/player stakes at 3 of 4, & 1 or 2 boons you should easily get A rank if you complete the optional objective as well as the time constrant. Imo this needs to change, We should get better score bonus from modifiers NOT less as they're planning on doing with locked loadout(which is bullshit bc even as it stands now I can only get B+, So after the nerf I'm gonna be locked outta B tier I guess).
This whole system needs to change, And fast! I don't know who nor why they thought this was a good idea, And someone should've said "Hey, I'm not sure this is the way guys....."
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u/Mr-Bugman 15h ago
It's funny to me that Bungie seems to only advertise old content when it's at its most useless.
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u/Tocowave98 12h ago
The fact that they're adding literal freakin lightsabers only for them to be rendered irrelevant within about a year afterwards says a lot about the state of the game right now.
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u/Zero_Emerald Heavy as Death 1d ago
The extension buys them some time of things not instantly being even shitter than present, hopefully they'll just rip the whole damn concept out of the game.
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u/theefman 1d ago
There needs to be legal action over them selling dungeons when the content is all but obsolete. And the word needs to be spread to unsuspecting players as well.
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u/Shockaslim1 22h ago
You can literally use the armor and weapons that you guy dog. They should have updated them but come on son.
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u/NaughtyGaymer 1d ago
My dude the content all still exists and is fully playable.
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u/jusmar 1d ago
it gives rewards intentionally incompatible with the current sandbox
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u/NaughtyGaymer 1d ago
You're not even using the correct words to complain with.
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u/CptNeon 1d ago
Explain how they’re wrong
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u/NaughtyGaymer 1d ago
The sandbox deals with gameplay. Weapons/perks, archetypes, modifiers like champions/banes, abilities, etc. You can still use all that stuff in the current sandbox they're not incompatible in the least. I still use some old favourites of mine.
What they (I assume) mean to say is that using old weapons slightly lowers your score multiplier in portal activities and it might cause you to add an extra modifier. Realistically if your entire loadout is new gear aside from 1-2 weapons it makes no difference. A far cry from being incompatible with anything, let alone the sandbox.
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u/gamerlord02 1d ago
This is like, every MMO game ever though. Past expansion gear is always outdated compared to the current one.
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u/AussBear 1d ago
I agree that it either needs to go or make the benefits a nice to have optional buff instead of it being necessary
*Edit misread the post so deleted part of my comment
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u/killer6088 1d ago
Why do people think all non-featured gear is just somehow useless? I feel like anyone that says this does not even play the game at this point.
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u/Shockaslim1 22h ago
They don't play the game and they karma farm when people are pissed at Bungie. They didn't complain about anything that was actually bad about new gear, just the whole thing itself. No nuanced argument at all.
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u/keylinha_S2 21h ago
true, even funnier is when people use featured gear just because it's featured, like outbreak (final warning has 50% more dps solo btw)
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u/GoldClassGaming 1d ago
I wish people would stop using the phrase "remain usable" it makes it sound like your gear is just gonna brick itself and not function after Renegades which isn't true.
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u/DiabolicallyRandom We must be able to see one another as we truly are 1d ago
its gonna reduce your score in activities. its gonna result in lower damage reduction, especially.
Those two alone, especially the first one, are enough to make older gear effectively unusable.
Because you literally get a massive score multiplier by wearing new gear. Higher tiers, you literally struggle to hit scores without new gear unless your run is perfect.
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u/killer6088 1d ago
According to this community, it is. People must always use the most meta shit. I hate this thinking from them.
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u/im_ban_evading_lmao 1d ago
Did they remove featured gear yet? I quit playing a couple weeks into EoF and didn't buy anything. It will probably stay that way until they remove it. But I keep checking back every month or so, hopeful.
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u/Packet_Sniffer_ 23h ago
I agree and disagree.
I have no problem with this existing for seasonal items. They’ve been essentially doing this with artifacts and rebalancing patches for years anyways. Seasonal items simply don’t stay relevant.
However, raid and dungeon loot is generally always top tier stuff until years later when it finally gets power crept. Raid participation is already low. Promising to make raid and dungeon loot irrelevant will demolish that population. Raid and dungeon loot need to be exceptions.
Finally, featured exotics are garbage. Especially as a warlock main. We have literally a single good build and Solipsism isn’t featured. Starting tomorrow I can no longer use the only good warlock farming build. Titan and Hunter will be able to hit for 10k. And warlock will Be maxed out at around 3k. Without the slide build we have nothing that hits any harder. We are disproportionately hit by touché and touché will be required.
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u/TheSnowballzz 22h ago
Just here to say (perhaps needlessly) that this is likely the first step in walking back some of the changes. I think the feedback has been clear from the jump that too many people just don’t like the system as it is.
That said, my (naive?) optimism still believes the people at Bungie want to make a good, fun game. So it’s easy for me to believe they plan to change more but either 1) don’t know exactly what those changes are, or 2) can’t say just yet (for whatever reason).
I’d also like to live in a world where changes are “easy” and happen quickly, but we don’t.
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u/procpls PLS CAP POINTS 1d ago
DTG being satisfied challenge: impossible
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u/Bat_Tech 1d ago
It's not like people were asking for an extention and switching to removal after they got what they want.
We've said from the start that the featured system sucks and needs to go so obviously an extension is not what we want.
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u/karlcabaniya 1d ago
There's no reason to be satisfied.
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u/ToddynhoDocinho 1d ago
bro thinks everyone should be happy with mid stuff, and i don't even know if Ash and Iron is Mid, probably even below that
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u/nickybuddy 1d ago
What exactly is mid tho?
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u/ToddynhoDocinho 1d ago
Ash and Iron, fighting red legion at (plague)lands and 1 encounter for 3 dungeons? If anyone says this is not mid or below that... idk what i can say to you
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u/nickybuddy 1d ago
Ah cool story man. Well let me know when your destiny killer game comes out and I’ll try it
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u/ToddynhoDocinho 1d ago
bungie is the destiny killer, you can see it, guess you ran out arguments.
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u/nickybuddy 1d ago
Why would I argue? You seem pretty dead set on hating something you play everyday.
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u/ToddynhoDocinho 1d ago
nope, EoF messed up the game pretty hard, i don't play it anymore, if the game gets better i'll return, but if it doesn't i couldn't care less
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u/zoompooky 1d ago
Bungie when they do something really bad, only to relent slightly and make it slightly less bad, only for the community not to be satisfied: surprised pikachu face
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u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago
Eh I’m ok with that. If every gear set is new gear for a full two expansions/seasons, that’s more than good enough for me. Otherwise we’re back in the same situation with no reason to ever get new gear.
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u/IGizmo94 1d ago
But there was always a reason to get new gear. New perks, origins traits, archetype/element combos etc.
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u/gamerlord02 1d ago
Before EOF, I wore the same armor since Witch Quren. Armor drops just became transmog fodder for me
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u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago
Not really. Unless it powercrept something you had, there was no reason. It’s even more true with armor. The set bonuses aren’t good enough of a draw.
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u/throwntosaturn 1d ago
I agree with you 100% on weapons, especially primary weapons, but man I couldn't disagree more on armor. I feel like set bonuses are the perfect power level to always have me excited to build another option out.
Especially the armor sets with really good 2 piece bonuses - It's really cool to be able to mix and match.
Though I do kind of wish that there was a way to have allowed us to do a 4pc and a 2pc. Like maybe have the class item count as 3 pieces, so you could get a 4pc bonus and a second set's worth of 2pc.
though I guess they probably don't want to actually encourage wearing mismatched armor.
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u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago
Eh I haven’t found any 2 set that feels overpowered enough for me to actually care about. The only four set that feels worth it is the raid one.
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u/throwntosaturn 1d ago
2pc trials + 2pc bushido is IMO the best generic setup in the game - provides an absolute ton of passive sustain.
Techsec 2pc completely invalidates Match Game though admittedly if you're using the Techsec 2pc it feels really silly to skip the 4pc.
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u/OrionzDestiny 1d ago
It is Bungie's fault for not giving us any reason to use new gear.
This should have sparked some brainstorming and theorycrafting on how to incentivize new loot. It probably did in the past, but they gave up.
Instead they scraped the bottom of the barrel and flat-out punished the entire player base for using something acquired before July 15th aside from 10% of Exotics.
This is one of the biggest examples of the meme where they tell us to play our way, but then frown and say "Not Like That 😡". The player base are puppets on a string that Bungie is holding.
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u/Samosin 1d ago
The incentive to farm new gear should be NEW, INNOVATIVE activites, strong or unique perks or perk combinations, new archetypes, new niches filled, NOT bc it has a blue ribbon.
No one cares about 5% more damage, 10% DR bungie could keep that in if they want so it doesn't look like they've completely abandoned their shiny new system.
But the fact that I get worse rewards in comp for using astrocyte and khvostov, worse drops from gm level content if im using an exotic class item, or ANY EXOTIC i want is really crazy. Featured exotics are one of the worst changes this game has ever seen.
Power creep is of course an ever present issue but penalizing the player for using any gun from before a couple months ago in the Game About Guns is not gonna help anything.
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u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago
The 5% extra damage and 10% extra DR is the only thing I care about with new gear because it’s useful in contest raids and 5 feat. But that’s the only content I really care about playing at all any more.
Agree with exotics though; every exotic should always be featured.
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u/Onion_Enthusiast1 1d ago
Or they could make new gear that’s worth acquiring. The dungeons have been good for this. Warlords ruin gave us indebted kindness and buried bloodline, the first special ammo side arms, which were a hit. Vespers gave us chill inhibitor and the area denial GL, both were fan favourites. Sundered gave us the only exotic than can spawn a turret, again, new interesting gear that’s fun to use.
Episodes: revenant gave us ark buffs and new perks like sympathetic arsenal or jolting feedback. We want new gear that actually feels new. THAT will encourage people to play the game. Giving us average new loot to farm and nerfing 99% of the existing gear in the game to make only the new stuff usable isn’t a fix. It’s soft sunsetting old content. The game needs variety. We should have the option to, and potentially be slightly rewarded for, using new gear, but not forced to
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u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago
lol you are one of the few people that consider anything from Revenant worth acquiring.
New gear should be better. We should always want and need it. We shouldn’t be able to crutch on 5+ year old gear.
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u/Onion_Enthusiast1 1d ago
I liked the episode for the buff to roaming supers, onslaught salvation, and slayers fang. The seasonal gear was… yeah. But generally I liked the episode. A lot more than heresy at least
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u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago
Complete opposite to the vast majority of the player base. Hated literally everything in Revenant but loved everything about the heresy content.
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u/JusticiarXP 1d ago
If they aren’t going to make a new game then there has to be some sort of rotation.
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u/Xandurpein 1d ago
Extending into Renegades will be enough. That way we can have our high tier armor we earned the previous season while levelling up the next grind. Then we can just switch to the high tier armor we earn during Renegades into the season after.
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u/zoompooky 1d ago
I don't see where they said this is the new norm, so be careful assuming that's what this means.
This could also be "This was the first expansion we tried it out, and there were some growing pains, so we're throwing y'all a bone this time..."
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u/Terce 1d ago
So they can “fix” it by walking back some of the changes, ending up with the nerfs they were originally intending while you all circlejerk how great bungie is for “listening” to the community and buying more silver.
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
Most devs don’t walk back anything. Especially before even implemented once. What’s planned is done and it just is what it is.
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u/Terce 1d ago
That’s why bungie has walked back changes after the outcry following every recent twab? Followed quickly by the community posts here praising them for it
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u/karlcabaniya 1d ago
They've walked back like 5% of the issues, and not anything important or systemic.
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u/Terce 1d ago
Yes that is exactly what I said in my first post, they make some small change based on the feedback from the community, bringing them to the value that wanted in the first place, and the general community take it as a “win” because bungie is “listening”. This cycle repeats every patch as the game gets more grindy and slows down progression even more, despite them just saying “Progression is slower than we want it to be, and we plan to generally increase the speed of progression for most players”.
This is how they have operated for years and yet this community has the memory of a goldfish and is the first to thank them for only nerfing X by 5% instead of the 50% from the twab, never realizing that was the goal in the first place
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u/platonicgryphon Stasis Go Zoom 1d ago
Why do you guys keep keep talking like any gear that isn't "featured" is unusable? Have you actually tried using it or does Bungie have a gun to your head?
yet we can't use that dungeon gear in avant garde or touche enabled activities?
Literally exactly one set of activities has this enabled, one, and you were unable to do them again afterwards. No where else in the game are you required to run a full set of Featured Gear to do anything.
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u/BC1207 1d ago
"cool, my t5 armor and weapons will be usable in all Renegades activities."
Yeah, uh… they were always going to be? What the fuck lol
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u/keylinha_S2 1d ago
apparently for some people, if it doesn't have the blue icon in the corner and it isn't tier 5, it's useless
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u/Isrrunder 1d ago
Baby steps my guy. You guys need to give the negative feedback coming. Personally i think they mostly fixed it for me. New gear hsving the bonus for a year is great imo. Still a meaningful amount of time but also means i have to care about loot every now and again
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u/karlcabaniya 1d ago
A week, a month, a year, it's irrelevant. It's either permanent or it's not. Armor is something you shouldn't be refreshing regularly. You should only care for new armor if the set bonus are better.
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u/gamerlord02 1d ago
Who are you to decide on whether I care for loot or not. Also, having a refresh for a “year” is not regularly.
One of the biggest issues I had with Destiny pre EOF is that every armor drop was worthless because I had the perfect stats already. The last time I was interested in armor, was in WQ.
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u/karlcabaniya 23h ago
You can care for whatever you want, but it shouldn't be designed in a way to force us to care.
Armor should generally be a one-time thing.
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u/gamerlord02 22h ago
Not it shouldn’t? Armor is just as important as the guns we use. Why even add new armor to the game if it’s supposed to be a “one time thing”
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
Yeah I think a year is perfect.
I come from games whole character is reset ever my few months. I enjoy everyone starting on the same blank slate, it’s the only time there’s any resemblance of fairness or balance.
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u/Exciting_Fisherman12 16h ago
Destiny is not Diablo.
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u/VersaSty7e 1h ago
It is a looter shooter where do you think the whole concept comes from. Don’t play dumb.
No developer has solved how to avoid power creep without some sort of reset, sunset, or moving to massive bi yearly content drops.
Yall act like this is a Bungie bad thing and never played another mmo rpg or arpg in your life. Welcome to repeatable activity loot inspired gaming brother.
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u/Isrrunder 1d ago
It's nice. Every season is a bit often but every year hits a nice balance imo
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
Yeah I still feel like if it’s in “the year of prophecy” it’s new enough man! I’m looking forward to both renegades expansion of loot. As well as next year contraction of loot. Fresh starts are not all bad.
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u/Isrrunder 1d ago
I find it so ironic how people on here desperately want destiny 3 but when using new gear is slightly better the throw a fit
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u/VersaSty7e 1d ago
Also ironic.
To actually ask new loot to be nerfed before it’s even released. Then say “hey I don’t even feel even 1% more powerful as I level”
Well you asked for the new loot to be nerfed in power before it was even released dummy.
I get Bungie did it backwards. But the loot was supposed to grow more powerful as we leveled.
And nerfing it doesn’t make Old loot better. It just makes the new loot worse!
- like I really really I can’t 🤯
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u/benjaminbingham 6h ago
Doesn’t need to be new gear to be viable. Use whatever gear you want. The bonus is just that, a bonus, not the whole damn cake. Featured/New gear is there to be used if you want a little extra sauce but is absolutely not mandatory in anything except conquests. Just because it’s not tiered/featured doesn’t mean it’s useless. Hezen Vengeance is still the best legendary rocket in the game despite not being a featured or tiered. If you’re tier 5 gear is tier 5, it will still be top tier next year and the year after, especially with armor because the real sauce on the armor is the stats and armor set bonuses and those aren’t changed at all. You don’t need the gear bonuses to play the game effectively; there’s nothing to complain about here.
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u/Shockaslim1 22h ago
Your tier 5 drops are going to still be good beyond the one year mark and just wont get the benefits of being "new gear".
They have made this incredibly clear and I don't know why people hate this system so much. There are some annoying things like bonus points in portal activities and all exotics not counting, but everything else is fine.
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u/Knight725 1d ago
having it a rotating two season system is imo very good. keeps you interested in stuff dropping at the end of the first season and lets you keep high tier stuff around post-reset. gives you a minimum of like 6 months with any particular gear in season.
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u/karlcabaniya 1d ago
keeps you interested in stuff dropping
That's the problem.
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u/gamerlord02 1d ago
Its a problem that I'm interested in loot in the looted shooter game? Should every activity just drop glimmer instead?
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u/karlcabaniya 23h ago
Because armor shouldn't be loot, not in the same sense as weapons. Armor should be limitied to a stat system, a one-time progress. If anything, you could want armor for the fashion.
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u/gamerlord02 22h ago
Sounds like a neat way of making 40% of the loot in the game useless.
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u/karlcabaniya 7h ago
Armor shouldn't be cosidered loot in the same manner. And it's useful for fashion with Ada and if they have interesting set bonus.
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u/gteriatarka 1d ago
that's literally every fucking MMO since MMOs have been in existence, holy shit. You people are just miserable.
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u/WendlersEditor 1d ago
It would be a lot better for the "newness" of gear not to be a factor in rewards score.