It’s sad to see the state of all characters IP defining supers

[u/titanthrowaway11]

I was talking with an old buddy of mine, who was a huge D1 fan but dropped off early into D2. We got to chatting about the state of things and he was shocked to hear that Bubble, GG, and Nova have been kinda trash for so long now. Especially the St.14 and celestial nerfs.

I know they’ve said they are “looking into ward of Dawn” and some of these other classes but damn it’s kind of sad when you think about it.

What would all of you do for these supers?

[u/MuuToo]

Ward of Dawn ever getting the ability to be popped by PvE enemies just feels so ass backwards

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/MuuToo]

It really is. If we will never be able to shoot out of it then it should be indestructible. When I told him how they changed St.14 he just asked me “wtf the point of bubble is” lol

[u/71r3dGam3r → u/titanthrowaway11]

Given how nobody uses it, I'll dare to say it should be Indestructible in PVE AND let players shoot out of it.

[u/Tehsyr → u/71r3dGam3r]

Playing Rising, bubble protects everyone inside, and gives the user practically infinite ammo for its duration AND four seconds after the bubble is done, while allowing you to shoot out of it. It's SUCH a breath of fresh air.

[u/Dustkun → u/Tehsyr]

Plus the attack speed buff for swords. That is so crazy

[u/LightspeedFlash → u/Tehsyr]

Bubble not being able to be shot out of and of course, into, in a game with well, means it's never going to be used. They just need to make it a purple well, then make it so helm of saint 14 make it act like it does now, so the option is there.

[u/TastyOreoFriend → u/LightspeedFlash]

The issue here is that by allowing players to shoot out of the bubble you will replace well of radiance fully as there'll be no reason to ever bring it again (weapons of light from S-14 is the same size buff as well). It'd be a field of immortality-its essentially the return of pre-nerf well of radiance "purple edition" which warped everything in the game around it.

You'd just be trading an orange problem for a purple one which isn't good for the game long term as pre-nerf well of radiance proved over and over again.

Technically it already is a purple well with the trickle field you get standing on the outside. It just doesn't have the numbers once you start getting into harder content and said field is hard to see on the ground.

[u/LightspeedFlash → u/TastyOreoFriend]

The issue here is that by doing this it replaces well fully

you are probably assuming that i mean that bubble cant be shot into, i dont, its wild i have to explain this every time i comment it, when i say a purple well, i mean it. the same way well can be shot into, make bubble act the same. same rate of healing, maybe with overshields, for flavor. same damage buff of 25%. its not a hard concept. then have HoS14 make the bubble act the way it does now, cant be shot out of or into, so the option exits but is not the base. i would also want an exotic for arc hunter that makes gathering storm into a well analog, all three would have similar rates of healing and the same damage buff, 25%, whatever you want to call that buff, that way all three classes have access to a well, so warlocks are not forced to run it. with all that in mind, you would not be "trading an orange problem for a purple one." most you could say is that you are homogenising the classes, which is fine in this particular point to me, as well has just been so dominant for so long.

[u/TastyOreoFriend → u/LightspeedFlash]

you are probably assuming that i mean that bubble cant be shot into

Because this is exactly what everyone wants. If you don't do it this way and allow shots to pass through people will hate it. Thematically it doesn't even make sense. Bubble in the lore is supposed to be an indestructible wall, just as Sentinel is described as.

Personally I prefer what they have now with the trickle field on the outside and the inside providing cover when shit gets to deep-I realize that's a minority take. Its just the field on outside isn't strong enough in a lot of cases. Personally I believe that the current bubble just needs better numbers to be viable.

[u/LightspeedFlash → u/TastyOreoFriend]

Because this is exactly what everyone wants.

i dont. so not everybody.

Bubble in the lore is supposed to be an indestructible wall, just as Sentinel is described as.

sentinels would still have at, with helm of saint 14 or using sentinel shield. you would still have options, unlike warlocks do in raids, if you are the only warlock. its wild this is a hot take to me.

Its just the field on outside isn't strong enough in a lot of cases.

and can never be if you can just dip into an indestructible bubble. the game would just be better if all 3 classes had a well expy.

[u/TastyOreoFriend → u/LightspeedFlash]

i dont. so not everybody.

Your in an incredibly small minority fyi.

sentinels would still have at, with helm of saint 14 or using sentinel shield. you would still have options, unlike warlocks do in raids, if you are the only warlock. its wild this is a hot take to me.

Which people wouldn't use and would just further bin the exotic.

and can never be if you can just dip into an indestructible bubble.

Sure it can. The issue is a numbers game.

the game would just be better if all 3 classes had a well expy.

Homogeneity as a rule of practice is terrible for the game long term. At that point it'd be easier to just remove well and bubble as a concept period and rebalance boss damage around lack of either.

[u/manlycaveman → u/LightspeedFlash]

This is what I posted before regarding Ward of Dawn and Helm of Saint-14:

Give Ward of Dawn Weapons of Light again after dipping inside. Let Helm of Saint-14 do its usual blinding stuff, but now have it so it makes Ward of Dawn grant Weapons of Light in the surrounding area (same area that is being given constant void overshields).

Now it will functionally be equal to Well in regards to boss damage situations, but it's also differentiated by still having a 100% safe space to retreat to if needed.

It's a small change, but I think it will actually help out Ward of Dawn immensely by not needing your team to dip in and out of the bubble.

I don't even think it'd be too much to also give Helm of Saint-14 a neutral-game bonus. Maybe something like "Consistent damage while having a void overshield grants Volatile Rounds to your void weapons." So kinda like last season's artifact perk where precision damage with a void weapon grants Volatile Rounds, but now it's just damage and you need a void overshield. It's not really game-breaking and it also synergizes well with Controlled Demolition and/or Bastion.

I don't know off-hand how Well's healing rate and Ward's Overshield rate compare with their DR and stuff. Just a purple well is kinda boring, even if it's being able to shoot out of the bubble while enemies can shoot in with reduced damage or something. I like that the Ward of Dawn would keep its 100% safe zone, but still have a way to offer a Well-like buff.

I don't know what they have planned for Ward of Dawn, but I do kinda like the direction they went in just regarding the Void Overshield generation surrounding the bubble, the taunt effect, etc. and the melee orbs are kind of a nice little bonus I guess. I just wish they hadn't fucked up Armor of Light so badly, especially in PvP lol.

Encounter design could be a way to promote Ward over Well, but then you run the risk of making it a requirement to have someone with it. Sentinel Shield is in a similar situation, tbh, but you can at least use it like a normal roaming super. Its bonus should be inversely proportional to how many people you are guarding so that it makes up for not being able to contribute to dps yourself (ex: +130% damage for 1 person, +65% damage for 2 people, etc but with correct numbers lol).

I can see it being useful for an encounter where you have to stand on a plate for dps, but the boss occasionally does a OHKO attack during dps and you have to scatter to "shields" to be safe OR you can pop a Ward of Dawn or stand behind a Sentinel Shield and keep the DPS going for 1-2 of those or step in and out of the ward for like 4-5 of the OHKO attacks. So it's still perfectly doable without someone running those supers, but having them gives you more dps up-time.

[u/notarealfakelawyer → u/Tehsyr]

Using Bubble in Rising made me put my controller down for a bit in despair. I drop my bubble and become an invincible never reloading turret that dishes out overshields OR a Sword whirlwind DPS menace. Netease made a Bubble better than Bubble has ever been (and shock horror it’s still worse than Tan-2’s Well, but at least it’s fun).

[u/Protogedan_ → u/Tehsyr]

When I first used it I thought it was just ward, then I shot through it, then saw my ammo didn’t go down, yeah why isn’t this how it is in d2

[u/whereismymind86 → u/71r3dGam3r]

Amazing just how fast a single nerf dropped its usage rate to near zero.

Bungie really needs to stop approaching balance with a sledgehammer

[u/Prior-Resolution-902 → u/71r3dGam3r]

I forget the exotic that lets you shoot through you wall class ability, but make an augment or alternate version of the bubble which allows you to shoot through it but it has durability in pve. and then buff current bubble in pve to do something worthwhile. Maybe it recharges grenades and class ability for allies inside er something idk. I just don't want it to be a titan copy of that warlock super.

[u/Gripping_Touch → u/titanthrowaway11]

Its just to protect you with an Overshield and a Damage Buff while you use swords on a Boss because anything explosive Will blow you Up. 

But for a Buff i think Bubble could give you a Big Damage reduction to your own explosives. Imagine bunching Up on a Boss and face tank rocket shots while you're right Up to the Boss. Or grenades launchers. Itd definitely increase its viability. 

[u/TastyOreoFriend → u/Gripping_Touch]

I like the idea of essentially giving it the danger zone perk. It'd help to keep people from PKing each other with explosive weapons. It'd be nice to be able to carry out a portion of Armor of Light out of the bubble too.

[u/JohnnySnarkle → u/titanthrowaway11]

Literally had this come up the other day playing w my buddy. I made that choir of one and actium warrig build into specialist to pop barricade and be an ad clearing support gunner as a titan and really enjoy it. And I’ve been off and on for years and didn’t realize how bad they nerfed bubble cause I was running twilight arsenal but wanted to try out bubble for more support. Popped it and it lasted like 6 seconds basically and me and my buddy wiped at the boss fight. Instantly went back to twilight arsenal. Sad that rally barricade on void titan is more useful than a whole super dedicated to protect team.

[u/buffWarlocks → u/MuuToo]

Enemies can shoot also cataclysm nova out of the air. Doesn’t happen often. Was happening a ton on mythic Kepler

[u/Daralii → u/buffWarlocks]

Makes me miss Nova Lance more than usual.

[u/UltimateToa → u/MuuToo]

I dont understand why it ever needed to be added, such a dumb change

[u/Zayl]

Nova bomb is still not bad on prismatic. But otherwise yeah.

It's nuts how celestial caught another Nerf this expansion in the same sandbox as cuirass.

[u/Faust_8 → u/Zayl]

It’s also not bad on Voidwalker because, I mean, it takes very specific add-rich-no-boss content for me to go with Nova Warp instead.

[u/LimeRepresentative47 → u/Faust_8]

Tbf, Nova Warp outputs. People underestimate just how much damage that thing does, s one of the higher total damage supers around (if only you could build harder into it tho).

[u/Faust_8 → u/LimeRepresentative47]

Yeah but it takes forever to do that damage and you have to be close to the target

[u/LimeRepresentative47 → u/Faust_8]

Ya not wrong, but imo it's definitely better than people give credit.

[u/Faust_8 → u/LimeRepresentative47]

Right, it’s not bad, it’s just that its DPS isn’t better than firing a one-off Super and then using your guns, and we’ve kinda moved on from using Supers to add-clear

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/Zayl]

Tbf I think the change to super regenerating weapons is going to drop cuirass use like ALOT but it’ll similarly hit GG

[u/THEYEETSEAL → u/titanthrowaway11]

There's already better ways to gen super than the ones listed in the sandbox changes that are being changed, outbreak was particularly overrated in its use case due to quality of life, T crash spam is still going to be obscenely strong.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/THEYEETSEAL]

What do you think will take its place? I haven’t seen much besides barrow dyad, which is also changing. Hardly any encounter benefits from Orpheus currently and hunters will not be doing as many supers now either.

[u/LilDumpytheDumpster → u/titanthrowaway11]

No one who uses these things is going to post about it probably until after the heroic raid, if at all. If Bungie doesn't know, it can't catch a mention in patch notes or the disabled items list.

[u/cry_w → u/LilDumpytheDumpster]

Do you think they won't notice unless people talk about it?

[u/LilDumpytheDumpster → u/cry_w]

Maybe not in the past, but the company is so bare bones right now that I doubt they know much that's going on that isn't talked about frequently, or massively used. We've seen it in the last several updates and we're seeing it moving forward with planned updates. The only thing that they seem to know about are 1) what's meta and being used allot, 2) what's being discussed by high end players openly as being good. As the comment we are replying to said, there is other things to use that these nerfs did nothing to address. High proficiency players loadouts will literally not be affected much in the least. These nerfs will only push out the 99% who were using these options. That's the only thing that will change. The top 1% will not really have to adjust to these nerfs at all.

[u/S-J-S → u/Zayl]

Let’s clarify this a bit: it’s a viable super on Prismatic, with Star Eaters, in an encounter that doesn’t expect multiple supers per damage phase. 

And still, in the entire history of boss encounters for TFS onward, it has only really been decent for Herald of Finality and maybe Contest Prophecy’s encounters. It’s okay for Raneiks by virtue of all other Warlock supers being worse for him, but still objectively kind of bad in comparison to other classes’ supers here. 

I am hoping Getaways + Hellion + Facet of Courage + Weaver’s Call at 200 Grenade ends up good enough boss damage in Ash and Iron to justify using Nova Bomb, but frankly, it and Needlestorm need a Cuirass / Celestial style exotic since yesterday. 

[u/ThisWaxKindaWaxy]

I always think man management really screwed the game then I remember that the balance team seemingly have dementia for almost everything and only focus on the best and now this is the state of GG after 10 years.

[u/Academic_War_7485 → u/ThisWaxKindaWaxy]

Because they only pull from usage data. They don't do anything unless their is high usage rate or low usage rate Bungie loves to say they are a data driven studio but there is a point where you cannot just look at data on usage and engagement to fine tune your game.

[u/NikoMartinez115]

Imagine seeing that a gacha Game of the same IP does the Void Bubble fantasy of being a strong ass protecting dome that also buffs You, i mean with Jolder in Rising You literally can shoot from inside the Bubble and You get a dmg buff and inifinite ammo for your gun and an attack speed buffs for your sword

[u/HotMachine9]

Im a D1 bubble bro.

Like I used bubble in everything.

I tried to stay a bubble bro in D2. Base game D2 it was actually pretty good. I liked that you could situationally use ward of dawn or use the roaming super. Having them both built in made it versatile enough.

Forsaken almost improved it with banner of war but we quickly discovered Banner was less impact full than well and then you only ever used it with Ursa.

Then it literally died.

Today my Manticore build does everything bubble ever could of done but better in every way.

[u/juliet_liima]

I'm struggling to find a place for Goldie right now. In most of the content I'm playing it often feels just as effective to be using my weapons.

I'm tempted to switch into six-shooter mode and spec into ignitions (at least that's fun), or, just sack it in entirely and go with blade barrage.

Personally I'd combine six-shooter and marksman. I know we'd lose one of the unique Goldie models, but, I think the rapid hip-fire fits the class fantasy better.

[u/MrTheWaffleKing → u/juliet_liima]

6 shooter is going to be infinitely better when the update rolls around. Refunds on super kills rather than ignitions so you don’t need to wait for ignite to ramp up before the bullet comes back (plus you don’t need the ignition aspect if you don’t want)

[u/JLoco11PSN → u/juliet_liima]

The only place it helps, are raids to help others get their supers.

Hit 3 crits, generate 6 orbs.... team profits.  Generates more than tether

[u/RootinTootinPutin47 → u/juliet_liima]

For non-contest stuff cast celestial goldie, then immediately swap off celestial to lucky pants and then fire. Agape with lucky pants and radiant shrapnel with probably gen your super in 1 round of illegally modeled holster, then just swap back to celestial and repeat.

[u/juliet_liima → u/RootinTootinPutin47]

I'm not into that level of gameplay; even if I needed it, locked loadouts.

[u/RootinTootinPutin47 → u/juliet_liima]

Yeah its not useful outside of raid boss dps and no longer in contest because notswap shafts hunters, for roam stuff it's only good for major burst hardly

[u/ExponentEel]

I use only bubble and I've been starving for YEARS. But I just love the super so much

[u/TxDieselKid]

GG even with CNH is a joke of a damage super these days. Just so sad how they can make this Super almost worthless.

[u/Saint_Victorious]

Monkey's paw: Bungie has read this post and will promptly be nerfing T-crash into the ground. Hunters will also be catching a stray nerf to Silkstrike too, because reasons.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/Saint_Victorious]

That’s basically been bubbles existence. Every time they nerfed well they nerfed bubble side by side because for some reason they think it’ll replace it but it never does

[u/makoblade]

Gotta sell the new hotness, so why bother maintaining the old stuff for parity?

I get that bubble was originally punished for it's D1 sins, but Well came along, ate it's lunch, it's corpse and then stomped on all of bubble's children and still keeps going.

Goldy has been trash for all of D2, with only Nighthawk giving it any pve relevance, but apparently doing damage from range is problematic in an FPS so we have to continually make it weaker and more complicated.

[u/screl_appy_doo → u/makoblade]

You will get radiant (but not well of radiance) and land a headshot while thundercrashes and nova bombs jerk the target around and you will like it

[u/cumble_bumble]

As long as Cuirass continues to exist, every other damage Super looks downright worthless by comparison. How that thing has managed to evade the nerf hammer for so long I will never know

[u/killer6088]

Hey now. GG was top tier in TFS but this community complained so hard that Bungie nerfed it into the ground and then some. But at least Well is still OP.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/killer6088]

It was very strong but still hunt kinda carried that. And this is coming from someone who constantly talks about how hunters overestimate the weakness of GG

[u/cslawrence3333 → u/titanthrowaway11]

Play with it and see how weak it is yourself lol

[u/ResonantEclipse]

Bubble yes
But Nova and GG is trash?
not really

Nova is still the biggest burst damage warlocks has esp on prismatic
Golden Gun is still the biggest burst damage hunters has w/ celestial or star-eaters

imo its not the supers, its the subclasses on these respective classes, except for void titan

Voidlock hampered by the fact that Prismatic does all the important bits that voidwalker can do, and being able to use different abilities to supplement what voidwalker can't do (like pocket singularity being ass, replaced by arcane needle or incinerator snap)
Solar Hunter has big damage but incredibly low survivability (which looks to be kinda solved with the new On the Mark buffs coming in Ash and Iron)
Void titan is actually pretty decent, its just bubble that is incredibly ass.

and ofc everything titan is kinda overshadowing them a lot
strand, solar, arc, and on the right build, stasis.

[u/NervousAd1432 → u/ResonantEclipse]

3 and 6 shot golden gun are horrendous. You shouldn’t need an exotic for it to be useable

[u/SCL007 → u/NervousAd1432]

I feel part of Golden Gun's issue is how required Radiant is to the super to preform at any competitive level and well doesn't count as being Radiant so you lose 20% of the already mediocre damage (At least mediocre compared to Thundercrash)

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/ResonantEclipse]

Sure those are fair points. Is nova better than apotheosis star eater broodweaver on prismatic? I thought the Euphony shenanigans were better than nova

[u/MrTheWaffleKing → u/titanthrowaway11]

Nah, stareater nova>stareater needle>euphony strand>nova void I believe. Euphony really just takes a full loadout to compete with heavy weapons… might as well get a good subclass and super and exotic and heavy

[u/ResonantEclipse → u/titanthrowaway11]

Nova more accessible than Euphony shenanigans
not everyone has Euphony

Though thats another point being that Strandlock at the moment is just ass in PvE without hyperspecific builds like Euphony strat

actually everything outside of Prismatic-lock falls short of it, other than Well-lock (as per usual), and Chaos Reach builds

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/ResonantEclipse]

I don’t even like the Euphony build. They added so much flinch on linears that it feels awful most of the time unless it’s a boss like the witness

[u/redditing_away → u/titanthrowaway11]

True but it's also a shame that Euphony never got time shine. Still Hunt was nerfed too much imho but at least it was for a time a meta defining exotic. Euphony never got that far, despite being the raid exotic from lore wise the most impactful raid of them all.

If you want Threadlings, go with Prismatic. Ideally matched with a HoIL & Verity exotic class item and you're good to go.

[u/Jkid789]

Wait what did they do Saint 14? I have a great build on it that I've been using for the past few seasons.

I'm still of the opinion Citan's should let you shoot through your Ward.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/Jkid789]

Basically any and all benefits of bubble (weapons of light, etc.) were moved to St.14. Bubble without the exotic does practically nothing. It does a weaken pulse and a very slow and shitty OS. No damage buff or blinding etc

[u/Jkid789 → u/titanthrowaway11]

Oh yeah that's a pretty "old" change by this point. It's dumb as hell.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/Jkid789]

Yeah my friend hasn’t played since curse of Osiris so there was a lot to discuss lol

[u/Jkid789 → u/titanthrowaway11]

Wild. Each day I kinda wish I stopped playing after Final Shape. But I didn't, so now I'm stuck until the next big finale.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/Jkid789]

I feel the same. Realized I was at a point where I don’t have time to invest in multiple games so I’m kinda stuck with this one or none at all

[u/Jkid789 → u/titanthrowaway11]

For me it's not even that I don't have time, it's just that Bungie continues to make the game worse.

I've only ever really invested time into 3ish games at a time, and this one just keeps getting so boring during seasons and between expansions that I kinda just want to stop playing. But I met one of my best friends on Destiny 5 years ago and he only really plays that.

[u/OPSweeperMan]

nova bomb and bad in the same sentence 🥀

[u/exxtrooper]

Nova bomb and golden gun is in a bad state? Thats like their go-to damage supers for all raids.

[u/cslawrence3333 → u/exxtrooper]

Because hunters literally have nothing else that is worth using. Especially on prismatic. Hunters are all running goldy to print orbs for titans, because our super damage is so insanely weak in comparison right now lol.

[u/djabolic → u/cslawrence3333]

People think every Hunter is using Golden Gun because it’s the best option ever and the best damage super that has ever existed in the game, and Bungie probably sees it the same way to justify their reasoning.

In reality, it is just the only dependable super for Hunter damage. That is why so many players run Celestial Nighthawk Golden Gun, not because its damage is amazing but because it is the only super that deals a reasonable amount of damage from range. Even then, it requires leaving a Well of Radiance to get Radiant and landing perfect crits just to reach comparable numbers.

[u/cslawrence3333 → u/djabolic]

Seriously. And now with the super regen changes I don't even use nighthawk because it doesn't regen super fast enough. So im doing basically no damage despite getting multiple goldys off, but making orbs for everyone. Guess hunters finally got another support super...lmao.

[u/djabolic → u/cslawrence3333]

LOL, believe it or not, I’ve been doing the exact same thing in the last few raids. I just pop a high-damage 6x Star-Eater Scales Golden Gun and play orb generator for the whole team for the rest of the DPS phase.

[u/DepletedMitochondria]

Bubble is just so bad and useless it blows me away. Like it's even in Excision as a throwback and with the Well nerf and design changes to encounters it could very much have a use if it didn't get gutted.

[u/CruffTheMagicDragon]

Bubble was on a death timer when Well was invented

[u/gamerlord02 → u/CruffTheMagicDragon]

I simply don’t understand why they don’t make the damage buff on bubble vastly stronger then Well. Like why is Bungie so allergic to having Well not be on top. Can’t even use the excuse that raids were designed around it, since most of the older raids have been power crept already

[u/CruffTheMagicDragon → u/gamerlord02]

Well needs to be offensive or defensive but not both. Bubble forces you to pick to be either inside the bubble or outside with Weapons of Light

[u/AnonymousFriend80]

What's happened to Radiance?

[u/thebearsnake]

I genuinely don't understand their philosophy with balancing supers and exotics half the time. Cuirass's only real weakness for a long time was that it didn't have a neutral game (aside from the time when arc was bad). And in the midst of it being one of the most used titan exotics ever they gave it a neutral game buff. So what was their strategy for something like the Iconic helm of St.14 in a metagame that had arguably absolutely left bubble and St.14 behind in destiny 1? They nerfed bubble and took away weapons of light and gave that functionality to the helm of st.14. What world does that make sense? There are so many exotics and supers that are absolute buns and when they finally take a swing at them, often it is baffling the choices they make. There is clearly not a unified vision on balancing in place. No one hardly used saint when bubble had weapons intrinsically, what makes them think people are going to use it after they just shifted the functionality to the helm? especially in a world where you still can't really reliably shoot around or through the bubble.

[u/SKOOBY-4]

They should make you shoot through the bubble in PvE just like Jolder in Destiny: Rising.

[u/Praetor_6040]

The obvious solution here is to delete nova warp

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/Praetor_6040]

I honestly like nova warp rn as a roaming super 👀

[u/Praetor_6040 → u/titanthrowaway11]

Yeah i was just making a joke about the infamous luke Smith comment lol. It can be fun it's just weak

[u/The_Good_Mortt]

I haven't played Destiny since Lightfall, but every time I get a post from this sub on my main feed I just get more and more sad about the state of the game and community.

[u/ColdAsHeaven]

I'll repost my Bubble buffs idea

• 10% bigger size

• 30 second longer life once used

• persists past death (like Well)

• Weapons back on Bubble

• Recovery is maxed while inside Bubble for all inside

• St14 lets your Weapons/Blessing from Bubble persists 5 seconds longer than base once you leave Bubble

[u/rodentmaster]

St14 has been nerfed since D2 launched. They tripled the super charge timer when D2 launched and everything takes longer. St14 doesn't work on anything buy low level mobs, which aren't a threat, and even in PVP the bubble doesn't even save you from being shotgunned or meleed by a blind guardian that enters your bubble. That, and arc supers, nova, basically all supers can pop the bubble and kill you inside it. It's never been good. As a D1 bubble main support class, I used to love it. It was great for a ton of stuff, and I even IB'ed it to good effect back then.

That's not a "recent" thing -- that's a D2 thing.

[u/Ok_Individual_5996]

I have always played Ward with Helm of Saint-14 and I feel attacked.

[u/EyesDownGuardian69]

Completely rework Titan void supers Ward of Dawn and Shield super into one. Make it vertical ward where Titans cast it into the ground and allow every player to shoot behind it. Give it an exotic like Ursa Furiosa to allow extra damage or super regeneration.

[u/titanthrowaway11 → u/EyesDownGuardian69]

A giant version of unbreakable could be a fun bubble change lol. Probably too close to banner though

[u/platonicgryphon]

Bubble hasn't been great for a while because well exists, but where are people getting that Golden Gun and Nova Bomb are trash? The damage numbers I can find for them put them both good with Golden being the highest DPS if it's pre-popped.

[u/Tight_Raspberry4872]

Make the bubble always give weapons of light and recharging over shield. Change st 14 to let you shoot through it

[u/GoldenDomo6123]

GG trash? The same super that’s been hunter damage meta since the release of prismatic?

[u/THEYEETSEAL → u/GoldenDomo6123]

It's still bad compared to the options other classes have, the only use case for hunter in endgame is 3 shot GG for orb gen, grapple hunter and maybe star eaters silkstrike for great total damage.

[u/bicboibean → u/THEYEETSEAL]

maybe star eaters silkstrike for great total damage.

not for long since that's getting gutted next patch lol

[u/THEYEETSEAL → u/bicboibean]

Not as hard as song of Flame, but yeah the super doing more damage with melee Stat will be sorely missed, I think it'll still be okay but definitely not a great pick for hunters anymore

[u/DiffusiveTendencies]

Nova is great in PvP and that's all that matters. Who care about the other modes, the metas and strats change every season.

[u/KingVendrick]

Bubble is just an ill thought super. Should never have happened. If Bungie had any sense they'd supplant it with Twilight Arsenal and just keep nerfing bubble forever until people forget it even exists.

But the image of Saint or Zavala holding a bubble is too iconic and they won't let go.

[u/TheGryphonRaven → u/KingVendrick]

Ward has its place, Well was the main culprit of its demise. Well should have never been healing + damage.

[u/cry_w → u/TheGryphonRaven]

I had an idea a while back where Well gave healing and ability energy, while Ward gives protection and weapon damage. They really should allow us to shoot out of it at this point, honestly, since Well clearly isn't going anywhere.

[u/TheGryphonRaven → u/cry_w]

Anything really, but it needs help. Fast. Like it's a nerf away from being a class ability bad. But yeah, shooting out of it may be it's only salvation and I don't think Bungie is ready to do that. It changes the raid loadout scene drastically.

[u/cry_w → u/TheGryphonRaven]

I mean, if it needs to change drastically, then that's just what should happen. Long time coming if you ask me. I say all this as a Warlock, mind you, since I also hate how overwhelmingly Well took away Ward's support role rather than sharing a place with it.

[u/iconoci → u/KingVendrick]

Well of Radiance should have never happened. Bubble was such a staple in D1, but it just can't compete against Well unless they significantly nerf Well.

[u/KingVendrick → u/iconoci]

I hear in Rising they just let you shoot from inside Bubble

it's the only thing that would make sense and even then Well may be better

[u/iconoci → u/KingVendrick]

I would love to see Well just get removed from the game for a week and see how the game is. There'd be a lot of bitching, but I bet it would be a lot more fun and there'd be a lot more diverse strategies.

[u/KingVendrick → u/iconoci]

I'd just check if Sanguine Alchemy somehow rocks in that sandbox

[u/CRIMS0N-ED]

Bubble and nova sure but celestial GG has had the spotlight mannnny times over the years