In "Raging Bull," there is a scene where the characters are all smoking, and the lengths of the cigarettes vary from one cut to the next, and there were worries that audiences would notice that.
Scorsese's response was that if audiences are paying more attention to the cigarettes than they are to what the actors are doing, the movie is a bad one anyway, and it doesn't matter.
I don't think this post is exactly an example of that, though - rather, I think it's more an example of understanding how the sausage is made.
We as filmmakers know that headrests are removed so the audience can better see the actors, and so we notice it because we've done it ourselves. So when we see it happening, it clicks in our head.
But I don't think noticing such things inherently means the movie is bad - but I also don't think OP should be so bugged by it that they allow it to take them out of the movie.
I think this is a horrible story to reiterate to most new filmmakers.
As a script supervisor, I hear “if they notice THAT we aren’t making a good movie” dozens of times throughout a shoot and there’s nothing done about the noticeable thing (which would take seconds to correct)…I hate to break it to you, but they aren’t making a good movie.
I’ve also had dozens of conversations with directors about possibly punching in, or definitely not using that take, or loving it so much we are just going to match to that/discussing if the performance is good enough or if we should grab one more for safety. The directors who have the conversations and actually THINK about the edit are the ones who make good movies.
Finally, I like to have discussions with directors about how if you make a GREAT film, people are going to watch it over and over. Sure, you might not notice something the first time through, but do you want to make a movie where even during their tenth rewatch people don’t notice something?
It’s not about distracting the audience just enough, it’s about caring to take the time.
I wonder what Martin thinks about cigarette scenes in his current films.
It's a great and valid safety net to have a supervisor for things like this, but in Goodfellas, Casino, Irishman, Raging Bull, Mean Streets, etc. there are dozens of glaring mistakes if you're simply looking at their hands, but most of the time you aren't. When DeNiro puts his cigar down in Goodfellas when he's introduced, as an audience member I'm not looking at how the cigar becomes a drinking glass, I'm looking at this new face and seeing an actor I know take upon a role who is about to affect the story I'm witnessing and wondering what that actor is thinking in that moment. There are at least 10 more things to bring up in that frame before considering the fact that the prop he's holding changes.
The point here is also not "we don't need supervisors", it's "performance is god", which is what Thelma lives by.
Also you should note there’s probably a million other potential mistakes that were fixed because of a script supervisor. And the ones left over were imposed on in the edit as part of a series of creative choices so are not the same as a simply ignoring it.
All a Scripty can do is help get as close as possible to continuity — which ensure performance and character is king — and so the only continuity issues are cigarette length and liquid in a glass and not something that does become glaringly obvious.
Movement, pacing, costumes, 180 degree concept, lighting consistency, line consistency, line order, blocking, furniture and set dressing, having the scenes all actually shot, transitions, walking directions, time of day etc etc. so while small things may be out of continuity the vast majority is and often that is on the Scripty to ensure it is.
Don’t know exactly the shoot, but I’m pretty sure both Thelma and Scorsese were aware of it and made a conscientious decision to run with it. Can’t blame the editor on this one.
You just “blamed” one of the best editors of all time, for what was a deliberate, conscious choice. Though I’m not quite sure how “blaming” the story for a characters cigarette status could really work… unless it was a scene in which the cigarette played a pivotal role impacting the story.
All the best will tell you continuity is low on the priority list in shot selection. This type of nitpicking is besides the whole point of making films and anti-art imho.
This is just Scorsese’s ignorance of how different people are. Some people are more attentive to detail than others and details stand out to them, particularly when inconsistent. It is why Scorsese won’t make a film like a murder mystery - he simply doesn’t know how to play to that type of audience.
Doesn’t disprove my point but I will modify my statement to say that it is not the type of movie that Scorsese is known for, if it makes you feel better,
Just say you were ignorant, don’t confirm you are a fool. What Scorsese meant is that if these things are the ones ruining the film, there’s a much bigger root cause
I believe I said that I hadn’t seen the movie and modified my statement. Now, what you are doing is trying to counter my argument by attacking me rather than my point so I am going to block you. Should your ego desire it, please feel free to have the last word.
In the Movie, there are these small details that are off (e.g. an empty glass, then suddenly full again). So it’s exactly these details that Martin Scorsese uses to guide the watchers attention.
I call this a "good for you" when I work on set. If anyone spends enough time analyzing a frame of a scene where they catch stupid details, "good for you". Directors frequently get hung up on the little things, but what matters is that the story is being told. If the story is strong, nothing else will be pulling your attention.
Yeah this is pretty distracting and egregious. Maybe they could get away with that shit in 1999, but they really should err on the side of realism in depicting user interfaces since 99% of people that watch movies use these devices daily.
It’s also wild seeing shitty UI in shows like the new season of Dexter, which clearly has a massive budget. Like… really? Is it intentional, part of the charm? A throwback to the OG Dexter that was super guilty of that, back when the budget and standards in television were lower?
It’s embarrassing. It’s incredibly easy to mock up a perfectly native looking UI.
Funny thing is they look away 20 seconds talking to someone in the back and then just when you think they're going back to the road they open the glove comportement with head down or start talking to the guy next to them without even glancing forward. All in a single long cut. They must be that magical autopilot :-).
Putting cars on a trailer and simulating them driving in real life. Worse still is when they CG a lame moving background in there while we watch the driver have a direct face to face conversation with another actor while going 60 mph while yanking the steering wheel from left to right.
If they did that in real life the car would’ve flipped and killed them.
All the sounds guns make. I hate it. Why does a gun have to click and clunk constantly when just being held? It's infuriating and sometimes ruins the experience of a movie or TV show for me.
In one of the Bourne movies, somebody* added a hammer-cocking noise to Bourne's Glock when he thrusts it towards the face of his antagonist. Took me right out.
*sound designer may well have done this under orders of the director, producer, who knows.
I like the "may". As if you're secretly scared of rogue foley artists never seeking director input and just adding whatever sounds they want to the movie.
So, are you saying that people puke into their hands, and like catch it and hold it? Have you seen that? I've seen this in movies where they are outside or in a bathroom so they have options. And there is usually a cut, and then you hear a lot of puking sounds. If someone is really going to vomit that much in those situations, puking on your hand only adds to your problems and does not feel like a natural reaction.
The point is, whenever I see it in a movie it makes me think they are acting sick, and not actually sick.
I have done it plenty of times. I'm racing down stairs knowing I'm going to throw up and then I start throwing up so i naturally throw my hands over my mouth so I am not just pouring out vomit everywhere.
It does do something. Rather than the entire stream of vomit down the hallway it's now on me and my hands and face.
The other day a friend of mine broke his nose at a gig and he told me it was the first time he ever had a nose bleed. I was amazed because I grew up having nose bleeds all the time. In relation to what we are talking about I throw up a lot.
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u/AcreaRising4 1d ago
if things like this bother you, it’s a crap movie.
As an old professor of mine used to put it: “if they’re concentrating on [insert random bullshit here] instead of your story, you’ve fucked up”.